Pentagon eyes intimate R&D tie-up with UAE

[Khafee]

Yeah that's a major improvement but it is not exclusive to blk-60 rather F-16V also have the same radar. This turns F-16 into a formidable 4++ gen. A/C.

Please tell this forum When did the Blk60 get the APG80, and when did the First F16V get the APG83, or when was the first APG83 installed?

 

[The SC]

Yeah that's a major improvement but it is not exclusive to blk-60 rather F-16V also have the same radar. This turns F-16 into a formidable 4++ gen. A/C.

The F-16V is a new upgrade, the UAE F-16 Block 60..well, just look up when it was made!

"Each new iteration of the fighter costs money to develop, integrate, and test. The UAE invested almost $3 billion into research and development for the F-16 E/F Block 60 Desert Falcon. First flight took place in December 2003, and flight testing by Lockheed Martin began in early 2004."

 

[MastanKhan]

Hey Sir,
I would need details of both blks to compare the specs and then figure out the extent of improvement. Since I have the necessary academic background so I'm qualified to make an opinion. Right now I'm basing my opinion on historical trend and linear regression.

Hi,

It is the same difference as reading " The Hunt for the Red October " in 1984 and in 2017---than between the BLK50/52 when they came out and the emiratis BLK60.

You have to take your mind back to the date when each of those aircraft came out---and think in the older time frame---to have a realistic analysis.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

It is the same difference as reading " The Hunt for the Red October " in 1984 and in 2017---than between the BLK50/52 when they came out and the emiratis BLK60.

You have to take your mind back to the date when each of those aircraft came out---and think in the older time frame---to have a realistic analysis.

Sir,
My original contention is not about the differences between these two blocks rather can UAE call that it did the R&D as some people are trying to give the impression here. While from the OP it is clear that UAE invested money and R&D was done by LM. All UAE did was to select the systems to go into the blk60...for example.. AESA radar existed already, it is not a UAE's invention, all they did was contact LM and ask them to integrate it into F-16..so whether LM made a new radar or modified an existing to fit inside F-16s, it was done by LM and it was sponsored by UAE and in return they got the IP rights but since the R&D was done by LM so it just developed APG-83 for F16V, based on the R&D for blk60.

Furthermore, definitely there would be a bigger jump between blk-52 and blk-60 as the naming scheme suggests that there is a difference of 8 which may correspond to 3 - 4 upgrades (as they take only count even numbers 50, 52, 60, 62 etc) from blk-52.

Please tell this forum When did the Blk60 get the APG80, and when did the First F16V get the APG83, or when was the first APG83 installed?

Ever heard of Google?

 

[Khafee]

Ever heard of Google?

Seems you haven't that's why the silly comments on this thread. Keep it up.

Sir,
My original contention is not about the differences between these two blocks rather can UAE call that it did the R&D as some people are trying to give the impression here. While from the OP it is clear that UAE invested money and R&D was done by LM. All UAE did was to select the systems to go into the blk60...for example.. AESA radar existed already, it is not a UAE's invention, all they did was contact LM and ask them to integrate it into F-16..so whether LM made a new radar or modified an existing to fit inside F-16s, it was done by LM and it was sponsored by UAE and in return they got the IP rights but since the R&D was done by LM so it just developed APG-83 for F16V, based on the R&D for blk60.

Furthermore, definitely there would be a bigger jump between blk-52 and blk-60 as the naming scheme suggests that there is a difference of 8 which may correspond to 3 - 4 upgrades (as they take only count even numbers 50, 52, 60, 62 etc) from blk-52.

People like you deserve to stay clueless.

 

[The SC]

Sir,
My original contention is not about the differences between these two blocks rather can UAE call that it did the R&D as some people are trying to give the impression here. While from the OP it is clear that UAE invested money and R&D was done by LM. All UAE did was to select the systems to go into the blk60...for example.. AESA radar existed already, it is not a UAE's invention, all they did was contact LM and ask them to integrate it into F-16..so whether LM made a new radar or modified an existing to fit inside F-16s, it was done by LM and it was sponsored by UAE and in return they got the IP rights but since the R&D was done by LM so it just developed APG-83 for F16V, based on the R&D for blk60.

Furthermore, definitely there would be a bigger jump between blk-52 and blk-60 as the naming scheme suggests that there is a difference of 8 which may correspond to 3 - 4 upgrades (as they take only count even numbers 50, 52, 60, 62 etc) from blk-52.

You got some things right at the end of it.. but how can the UAE select the most advanced systems if they had no expertise and knowledge about them? not only that,they must have had knowledge about all the systems involved a what it took to upgrade them.. also how come they have property rights on the whole block? They must have been involved in the design at some stage somehow..

 

[war&peace]

You got some things right at the end of it.. but how can the UAE select the most advanced systems if they had no expertise and knowledge about them? not only that,they must have had knowledge about all the systems involved a what it took to upgrade them.. also how come they have property rights on the whole block? They must have been involved in the design at some stage somehow..

Of course they had knowledge, even in procurement department engineers work and they have in-depth knowledge of the products they are supposed to acquire. Even pilots have knowledge of flight mechanics. I didn't say UAE people are dumb, there a lot of very smart people among them and of course their airforce has some of their best people so they know things. But what I said is that the R&D was done by LM as per OP and I standby that.
What I think UAE AF decided that they wanted to see those upgrades in F-16, they made a team, they laid out specs and some preliminary details, contacted LM and asked if they can do those modifications to F-16. LM's team thought about it, came with a proposal, discussed the details and there should have been changes and discussions and then it got finalised, UAE paid them, got the rights to this particular configuration. LM agreed and made the block-60. However since it was LM's who did that so even if UAE has copyrights, LM engineers further modified and made APG-83 with slight improvements over APG-80 and sold them as part of F16V without paying any royalty to UAE.. and an OEM can always do that.

 

[The SC]

Of course they had knowledge, even in procurement department engineers work and they have in-depth knowledge of the products they are supposed to acquire. Even pilots have knowledge of flight mechanics. I didn't say UAE people are dumb, there a lot of very smart people among them and of course their airforce has some of their best people so they know things. But what I said is that the R&D was done by LM as per OP and I standby that.
What I think UAE AF decided that they wanted to see those upgrades in F-16, they made a team, they laid out specs and some preliminary details, contacted LM and asked if they can do those modifications to F-16. LM's team thought about it, came with a proposal, discussed the details and there should have been changes and discussions and then it got finalised, UAE paid them, got the rights to this particular configuration. LM agreed and made the block-60. However since it was LM's who did that so even if UAE has copyrights, LM engineers further modified and made APG-83 with slight improvements over APG-80 and sold them as part of F16V without paying any royalty to UAE.. and an OEM can always do that.

We agree on that, there is the R&D that we don't have a consensus about..some UAE scientists has participated in it and there was some ToT involved in the deal.. but everything was done in US laboratories, since the UAE did not have huge R&D institutes like it does now.. it was still embryonic in the 80s..

 

[war&peace]

We agree on that, there is the R&D that we don't have a consensus about..some UAE scientists has participated in it and there was some ToT involved in the deal.. but everything was done in US laboratories, since the UAE did not have huge R&D institutes like it does now.. it was still embryonic in the 80s..

Yeah that's where we have agreement mate!!!

 

[Khafee]

Of course they had knowledge, even in procurement department engineers work and they have in-depth knowledge of the products they are supposed to acquire. Even pilots have knowledge of flight mechanics. I didn't say UAE people are dumb, there a lot of very smart people among them and of course their airforce has some of their best people so they know things. But what I said is that the R&D was done by LM as per OP and I standby that.
What I think UAE AF decided that they wanted to see those upgrades in F-16, they made a team, they laid out specs and some preliminary details, contacted LM and asked if they can do those modifications to F-16. LM's team thought about it, came with a proposal, discussed the details and there should have been changes and discussions and then it got finalised, UAE paid them, got the rights to this particular configuration. LM agreed and made the block-60. However since it was LM's who did that so even if UAE has copyrights, LM engineers further modified and made APG-83 with slight improvements over APG-80 and sold them as part of F16V without paying any royalty to UAE.. and an OEM can always do that.

Pure speculative BS.

LM does not make radars, in this particular case it was Northrop Grumman.

There is more, but as arrogant as you are, I will let you continue, and show, to those who really know, what you really are all about.

We agree on that, there is the R&D that we don't have a consensus about..some UAE scientists has participated in it and there was some ToT involved in the deal.. but everything was done in US laboratories, since the UAE did not have huge R&D institutes like it does now.. it was still embryonic in the 80s..

Not entirely true.

 

[The SC]

Not entirely true.

What is the rest of it?

 

[Khafee]

What is the rest of it?

Not on the forum.

 

[The SC]

Not on the forum.

OK.. but my post holds some important truth about the involvement of the UAE in High-tech R&D for a long time..

 

[Khafee]

OK.. but my post holds some important truth about the involvement of the UAE in High-tech R&D for a long time..

That it does, but the Blk60 was not developed in the 80's.

After a long selection process it was selected in 1998. Contract signed in early 2000. The R&D took place after that.

First completely assembled Blk60, flew in late 2003.

There is more, but lets leave it at this for now.

 

[The SC]

That it does, but the Blk60 was not developed in the 80's.

After a long selection process it was selected in 1998. Contract signed in early 2000. The R&D took place after that.

First completely assembled, Blk60 flew in late 2003.

There is more, but lets leave it at this for now.

Sorry I meant 2000s as my previous posts say that.. 2003 and 2004