Would an Arab defense industry group work?

[Philip the Arab]

My idea is simple, gather a group of Arab countries that can each contribute some product or ideas to military armored vehicles that would be universal among them. The Arab countries I would like to see in this group are Jordan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain and Egypt. These countries all have something to offer to the table such as money, tech and together I'm sure they could make armored vehicles together. I will give some examples for this the countries that can offer something. If the countries all purchased the same IFV there would have to be 1000+ units produced and I assume other regional and foreign customers will most likely purchase the system in smaller quantities. In the future if this happened tanks, and other armored vehicles could be made.

Jordan- Turret system

Light Weight Turret
The project aims to design & build a light weight compact turret system with medium caliber cannon as a main weapon to be adaptive for installation on medium wheeled & tracked vehicles currently available in service with JAF or being developed in KADDB for future. This could be good for an IFV.

FEATURES
The main turret features & systems include:

Primary armament-MK 44 30 / 40 Bushmaster cannon
Secondary armament-M240 MG.
Counter Measure-Smoke grenade launcher.
Sensor Suite-Thermal, day camera, laser range finder, laser pointer
Turret Control system Electric traverse & elevation drive system.
Basket Unmanned Turret
Protection level Skin armor satisfies STANAG I protection level.
Protection upgrades as per customer & weight limitations.

SUGGESTED
Primary armament caliber (mm) 30
Secondary armament caliber (mm) 7.62
Counter Measure (mm) 6 X 66
Elevation -10° - 45°
Traverse 360°
Rate of fire (rounds /min) 30
Total weight Up to 2000 kilograms combat weight

UAE-Chassis


Imagine this with the Jordanian turret fitted with 2 ATGMs.

The Enigma 8x8 wheeled armored personnel carrier was developed by Emirates Defense Technology. It was first publicly revealed in 2015. It offers STANAG 4569 level 6 (30)mm frontal and level 4 all around 14.5mm or about the same as the M2 Bradley. It can be made in IFV/APC versions.

Engine
Engines are trickier then other components and may have to be purchased from other companies like Caterpillar but the industry should be developed if not developed yet as Turkey does with their Arma.

Now if someone with more info about what Arab industries that I haven't mentioned could offer me some info about what the specified nation makes that they could bring to the table.

 

[Mugwop]

There is one country in the middle east that will prevent it from working

 

[Philip the Arab]

There is one country in the middle east that will prevent it from working

They will do no such thing and can do nothing to stop it. When the AOI was made they did nothing and they shalt do nothing today. Remember their main focus is Iran and do they really give a crap about Arabs? They pose a smaller threat than the last Arab-Israeli war.

 

[Mugwop]

They will do no such thing and can do nothing to stop it. When the AOI was made they did nothing and they shalt do nothing today. Remember their main focus is Iran and do they really give a crap about Arabs? They pose a smaller threat than the last Arab-Israeli war.

I am not against any arab alliance but it would be foolish to under estimate them.
Gaddafi once spoke of an Arab alliance and look what happened
Syria had an awesome Tank force and they did everything in their power to sabotage it.
Their main focus is iran right now so maybe it is the best time to form an arab alliance right now but afaik some arabs don't get along with each other. So you tell me how this can work?

@The SC

 

[Philip the Arab]

I am not against any arab alliance but it would be foolish to under estimate them.
Gaddafi once spoke of an Arab alliance and look what happened
Syria had an awesome Tank force and they did everything in their power to sabotage it.
Their main focus is iran right now so maybe it is the best time to form an arab alliance right now but afaik some arabs don't get along with each other. So you tell me how this can work?

@The SC

Have a collection of Arab states that do get along. Its pretty simple as Jordan, The GCC, and Egypt all get along well enough to form an Arab NATO which Israel actually supports since Trump wants to start it.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Have a collection of Arab states that do get along. Its pretty simple as Jordan, The GCC, and Egypt all get along well enough to form an Arab NATO which Israel actually supports since Trump wants to start it.

They all get along because they all have one thing in common: they fear their very own people. This is not a healthy base for cooperation because any cooperation of this kind is basically targeting their own people and not the enemies of the Arab world.

 

[Philip the Arab]

They all get along because they all have one thing in common: they fear their very own people. This is not a healthy base for cooperation because any cooperation of this kind is basically targeting their own people and not the enemies of the Arab world.

Who are the enemies of the Arab world? They have no real enemies except dissidents. Israel isn't going to fight the Arabs, Iran isn't going to fight the Arabs(All talk no walk), no one is going to fight the Arabs at least for now. Do you blame them? Algerian people knowing how bad the Arab spring are still trying to cause another war in the middle east by revolting. All of the people who revolt know their country turns out worse, look at Iraq, Syria, Libya, Tunisia. They are not going to use their weapons against their own citizens because the citizens have learned the dangers of revolutions.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Who are the enemies of the Arab world? They have no real enemies except dissidents. Israel isn't going to fight the Arabs, Iran isn't going to fight the Arabs(All talk no walk), no one is going to fight the Arabs at least for now. Do you blame them? Algerian people knowing how bad the Arab spring are still trying to cause another war in the middle east by revolting. All of the people who revolt know their country turns out worse, look at Iraq, Syria, Libya, Tunisia. They are not going to use their weapons against their own citizens because the citizens have learned the dangers of revolutions.

Tunisia turned out better...
Same for Algeria... who are now protesting against a 5th mandate of a dead man... Who is used by puppets... A Country who has one of the best Potential whatever in Brain/Manpower and Ressources of the entire Arab world...and yet look at them...

Syria... Where people back in the days, had as much basic rights as Third world country... and asked for a change and got targeted by their own gov...that to this day KILLED 500K and 10Mil refugees...

Or Even your Country Jordan... or maybe you forgot the 2011-12 events?
And so on...

Arab Gov are Corrupt...The cancer of the world... were basic rights is put aside for the sake of few... Where the Life of one of them is as meaningless as of a Dog...

That's the Arab world of Today... You can't compare GCC and The rest of the Arabs...

So yes... those rotten cancerous of a Dictators shall fall... even it doesn't please the nationalist among us... No one care.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Tunisia turn out better...
Same for Algeria... who are now protesting against a 5th mandate of a dead man... Who is used by puppets... A Country who has one of the best Potential whatever in Brain/Manpower and Ressources of the entire Arab world...and yet look at them...

Syria... Where people back in the days, had as much basic rights as Third world country... and asked for a change and got targeted by their own gov...that to this day KILLED 500K and 10Mil refugees...

Or Even your Country Jordan... or maybe you forgot the 2011-12 events?
And so on...

Arab Gov are Corrupt...The cancer of the world... were basic rights is put aside for the sake of few... Where the Life of one of them is as meaningless as of a Dog...

That's the Arab world of Today... You can't compare GCC and The rest of the Arabs...

So yes... those rotten cancerous of a Dictators shall fall... even it doesn't please the nationalist among us... No one care.

How will they fall exactly? Syria is worse than when it was 7 years ago. Assad got back most of his land and will treat his people even worse.
Do you want to see a war in Algeria? The best situation there would be a bloodless coup but seeing how most don't turn out that way except a full blown civil war.

Jordan is having a better time than say if there was a civil war. It wouldn't have worked even if there was a revolution since Israel and Saudi Arabia prefer the king over any government that Jordan could set up.

I agree they are corrupt but would you rather see people dying and suffering more than they did under their leader? Would you like to see children who were born after the conflict suffering the actions of their parents as what's happening in Syria? This is why Prophet Muhammad said revolting against your leader is wrong.

 

[HannibalBarca]

How will they fall exactly? Syria is worse than when it was 7 years ago. Assad got back most of his land and will treat his people even worse.
Do you want to see a war in Algeria? The best situation there would be a bloodless coup but seeing how most don't turn out that way except a full blown civil war.

Jordan is having a better time than say if there was a civil war. It wouldn't have worked even if there was a revolution since Israel and Saudi Arabia prefer the king over any government that Jordan could set up.

I agree they are corrupt but would you rather see people dying and suffering more than they did under their leader? Would you like to see children who were born after the conflict suffering the actions of their parents as what's happening in Syria? This is why Prophet Muhammad said revolting against your leader is wrong.

No war in Tunisia...therefore it's possible...
Algeria is yet to fall into "war"... As of right now... their protest and the Gov answer is 10x more peaceful than Protest in France... They are even using such comparison right here in France as a mockery toward their own protest...

Jordan Gov was less stupid than other Arab gov...where they rapidly embrace some sort of changes when it begun to start... They saw that things could end up bad... It's not perfect...but I recognize at least the effort of your King.

Egypt... Well... they traded a Dictator for another... But at least , things shall be said... Sissi made more for Egypt than Mubarak almost entire reign... So change happened...

Where things turned out UGLY is when "OTHERS PUT THEIR NOSE IN"... Like Syria...where in 2012... Assad was on the brick of falling... He had few pockets in Damascus and The coastline... He was finished... But guess What? Cancer countries got in aka RUSSIA and IRAN... and put billions and Billions with unlimited manpower and equipment... and just after that another cancer happen... ISIS... and we have the result today...

Same for Libya... When Gaddafi was out few months after the beginning of the revolution... and people celebrated Guess who came in? Yeah Cancer countries... and a year later another Cancer happen aka ISIS...

That's the reality... when your "Ruler" is Corrupt and Evil to the Core...you fight it... I don't speak about a Ruler who make a mistake or isn't perfect in it's ruling job... But RULERS who are openly "NON MUSLIMS" and "EVIL"
You fight it...

As long as the Cancer in Power doesn't ask for help from other Cancer... he is finished...

 

[The SC]

I am not against any arab alliance but it would be foolish to under estimate them.
Gaddafi once spoke of an Arab alliance and look what happened
Syria had an awesome Tank force and they did everything in their power to sabotage it.
Their main focus is iran right now so maybe it is the best time to form an arab alliance right now but afaik some arabs don't get along with each other. So you tell me how this can work?

@The SC

Libya and Syria and even Nasser's Egypt were too politically nationalistic in their demands, they wanted an Arab socialist coalition, obviously it did not work since most Arab states were/are not socialists.. the work now seems to be individual by each state trying to improve itself on all levels.. with assistance by other Arabs in case of need..and the main work for an alliance as I heard and hope, is on the economic level; complementarity to be more specific, something that might lead to other forms of an alliance in the future, including a Military one..But please do not get me wrong on this, The Arabs in general, although open to others and seem to be distant from each other sometimes, will gang up without hesitation on anyone threatening a major Arab country, like Egypt or Saudi Arabia and that is from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the East (I am talking about the popular will which transcends politics)..they have given a small example in 1973 war with Usrael (eventhough fully backed by the US), they have shown their solidarity by sending (all of them without exception), troops, fighter planes, tanks and what have you, much of it was symbolic and held defensive positions in Egypt and Syria.. but they were there and would have done more if things escalated..They will do more and get fiercer IMHO, if the cause is Islam itself and that is a very deep seated popular belief that they will declare Jihad if Islam is under threat by anyone..But for now and since most Arab states enjoy good relations with the West and no one is threatening a Major Muslim Nation like Pakistan apart from India and we saw the reaction of Arabs and the OIC to that..The emphasis will now be put on economy, education, R&D, infrastructure, ToT and social well-being..
No to answer precisely the question of this thread.. it is a Yes since an embryonic entity composed of KSA and the UAE has started it already..but it will take a lot of coordination and sometime to generalise it all over the Arab world..As I said earlier every Arab state is setting up its own Defence industry for now..

 

[Philip the Arab]

Forgot to add that a quadcopter would be a good idea as Turkey is doing for scouting.

Something Turkey isn't doing is adding a small UGV. I think this could be useful if for example someone is hiding in a building or the UGV could go in or scout for tanks in case the IFV is in danger.

 

[Falcon29]

@Philip the Arab

We are late to the party but it appears like some Arab nations looking to develop indigenous arms industry, finally. Each country has their own needs, but I would prefer they all fund a specific program that every nation can benefit from. The issue is integrating new technology/philosophy into these armies. We need revamped cultural philosophy instead of having unqualified individuals in higher ranks simply because of affiliation with government or record of loyalty to the government. That is what is hurting us bad but on other fronts we are better off.

I am not against any arab alliance but it would be foolish to under estimate them.
Gaddafi once spoke of an Arab alliance and look what happened
Syria had an awesome Tank force and they did everything in their power to sabotage it.
Their main focus is iran right now so maybe it is the best time to form an arab alliance right now but afaik some arabs don't get along with each other. So you tell me how this can work?

@The SC

Syria was under sanctions and the army was not competent but also corrupt. Jordan's philosophy is centered around anti-terrorism/internal security. Egypt is poorer nation, not highest quality infantry but their military generals do take preparing for war more seriously and have decent air force, air defense, infantry and armor. Saudi Arabia is being hindered by leadership who wants to totally oversee army and feel safe about the chiefs/generals. Also they need better people to manage military budget, sometimes they purchase stuff they don't need. So it all goes back to leadership which is limiting these militaries badly and having a lot of their focus around anti-terrorism instead of conventional war.

US seems to encourage them to focus more on anti-terrorism while the prevalence of terrorism doesn't support the proportion of exercises centered around counter-terrorism. The leaderships are to blame for some of the shortcomings of Arab armies. And I don't believe they will change and they still see segments of local populations as a threat.

 

[Ceylal]

Libya and Syria and even Nasser's Egypt were too politically nationalistic in their demands, they wanted an Arab socialist coalition, obviously it did not work since most Arab states were/are not socialists.. the work now seems to be individual by each state trying to improve itself on all levels.. with assistance by other Arabs in case of need..and the main work for an alliance as I heard and hope, is on the economic level; complementarity to be more specific, something that might lead to other forms of an alliance in the future, including a Military one..But please do not get me wrong on this, The Arabs in general, although open to others and seem to be distant from each other sometimes, will gang up without hesitation on anyone threatening a major Arab country, like Egypt or Saudi Arabia and that is from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the East (I am talking about the popular will which transcends politics)..they have given a small example in 1973 war with Usrael (eventhough fully backed by the US), they have shown their solidarity by sending (all of them without exception), troops, fighter planes, tanks and what have you, much of it was symbolic and held defensive positions in Egypt and Syria.. but they were there and would have done more if things escalated..They will do more and get fiercer IMHO, if the cause is Islam itself and that is a very deep seated popular belief that they will declare Jihad if Islam is under threat by anyone..But for now and since most Arab states enjoy good relations with the West and no one is threatening a Major Muslim Nation like Pakistan apart from India and we saw the reaction of Arabs and the OIC to that..The emphasis will now be put on economy, education, R&D, infrastructure, ToT and social well-being..
No to answer precisely the question of this thread.. it is a Yes since an embryonic entity composed of KSA and the UAE has started it already..but it will take a lot of coordination and sometime to generalise it all over the Arab world..As I said earlier every Arab state is setting up its own Defence industry for now..

What a load of crap!Arabs helping Arabs against foreign invaders? Since when?
Iraq was tacked and the Arab forces were their helping Uncle Sam I &II
Algeria's Black decade, all the Arab states save few(Tunisia and the UAE) were helping the terrorists
Libya idem
Syria, idem...
Arabs are a creation of bad..
And for 73..The help of some countries to Egypt was anything but symbolic...Some of them kept you from being the Israeli housewives, which you became on your own...
Ibn Khaldoun Saïd: it’s 3ouribet, Khouribet, he was right all along and his quote is still true to this day..
When Arab states start loving their own citizen, and treat them as citizens and start loving each other , then you all can speak of Arab consortiums in defense industries..
By the way Algeria in the 90’s, acquired 200 FAHD from Egypt..they couldn’t even a stop a 9 mm bullet..

 

[bsruzm]

will gang up without hesitation on anyone threatening a major Arab country

Except American invasion of Iraq?