With eye on exports, Tejas on display in Bahrain air show

[kurup]

Kindly list the stuff which LCA has in common with Mirage-2000.

Like M2K , LCA also has wings , body , an engine , a cockpit and offcourse a pilot to fly it .

And hence according to chinese logic proved they are common .

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

PowerPlant： US
multi-function displays (MFDs) : France and Israel
HMDS : Israel
laser pod supplied :Israel
ejection seat: UK
Radar:Israel
Missile: Israel and Russia

Export?

Well,
Indian ejection seat is ready to replace martin seats , this the same seat used by Chinese JF-17 , First know your own components.

Most of 60% is indian and will do most of time in some more years. what problem you have . We don't lie like Chines which ask Russian company to design it and claim to world that Chinese design it.

 

[sancho]

SAAB has license arrangements with GE for Gripen under RM-12. Even the 414 version will be manufactured under license by SAAB. HAL has no such arrangement

And you say you have no intentions, hilarious.

 

[Slayer786]

It is easier to follow in one's footsteps than it is to blaze one's own trail.

Let me know when the Chinese create something on their own instead of copying and pasting one of our designs (or the Ruskies for that matter).



Easier to assemble knock-down kits than to build from scratch wouldn't you say?

But to take 40 years and still not ready to be inducted surely not the best effort there mate? Wouldn't you say mate?

 

[h0mer]

But to take 40 years and still not ready to be inducted surely not the best effort there mate? Wouldn't you say mate?

40 years is a massive exaggeration wouldn't you say mate? I mean I like to harp on other countries failures as much as the next person, but you have to consider a few things before harping on a country trying to improve their infrastructure and stature on the world stage in a peaceful manner.

1.) No infrastructure to build fighter jets - Jets require tremendous amounts of infrastructure pieces to design, develop, and produce. You need Wind-tunnels, Turbine testing facilities, weapons testing facilities etc... Like the saying goes, you need the Tools to build the tool that helps you build the tool you want. E.g. If I wanted to build a wrench, then I'd need to build a furnace or start a fire first... create a pot capable of withstanding high temperatures, then build the mold into which I pour the molten metal to finally get a wrench.

India had none of that, but built it.

2.) No talent to build fighter jets - In order to build a jet, you need top end talent (engineers, scientists etc...), these don't just grow on trees. In order to acquire this type of talent, you either import it from other countries (Like Taiwan did), or you improve your Education System to produce this type of talent locally. If you do the former (importing), then it will help in the short run, but not in the long run. What happens when those people get older? There's no one to teach the next generation, that's why you have to build your Educational Infrastructure if you want to be a leader one day in any engineering/science field. (Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime).

India had none of this either... but India built this (I was reading some literature last night published by Lee Kuan Yew where he states that india increased it's literacy rate from about 12% during the occupation of the Brits, to around 74% now... that's 74% of 1.2 billion people... impressive).

3.) No money to build fighter jets - But before you can do any of the above, you need to make sure you fix the economy of your country. You have two options again... either re-direct funds meant for improving standards of living to the defense industry, or you increase the money to improve the infrastructure and the quality of life of your people so they work harder and bring in money to your nation. India did the latter (taking notes from the failures of the North Koreans and the Soviet Union).

India also built it's economy into a power-house..

So in 24 years, they did the following:

1.) Built their economy from the ground up and turned it into a work-horse.
2.) Improved the infrastructure of their country
3.) Improved the knowledge-base (students, schools, education etc..)
4.) Improved the quality of life for their people.
5.) Built all the R&D and production centers needed to built jets, trains, planes etc... you name it.
6.) Built a fighter jet from scratch.
7.) Fought a war
8.) Worked through sanctions.

I can identify similar traits with the Chinese... they improved even more so than India.. Matter of fact so has every other Asian nation... But this begs the question, what has Pakistan done in the past 24 years? Nothing.

And you want the rest of the world to believe you have the capability to build fighter jets from scratch? Pakistan putting together a JF-17 from parts bought from China and claiming it to be a indigenous fighter is like me going to IKEA, buying a table and putting it together and calling myself a carpenter. So keep harping on other countries minor inadequacies , because while you're laughing/nit-picking they're moving ahead in the world while your country stagnates.

 

[Superboy]

And you want the rest of the world to believe you have the capability to build fighter jets from scratch? Pakistan putting together a JF-17 from parts bought from China and claiming it to be a indigenous fighter is like me going to IKEA, buying a table and putting it together and calling myself a carpenter. So keep harping on other countries minor inadequacies , because while you're laughing/nit-picking they're moving ahead in the world while your country stagnates.

For the record, Pakistan has never claimed it developed JF-17 on its own. JF-17 is a joint venture between Pakistan and China, hence the prefix J. Have you heard Spain claiming it developed Typhoon?

 

[shuntmaster]

For the record, Pakistan has never claimed it developed JF-17 on its own. JF-17 is a joint venture between Pakistan and China, hence the prefix J. Have you heard Spain claiming it developed Typhoon?

F-17 THUNDER (FC-1/ Super-7)
The origins of Super-7 programme can be traced back to the early 1980s, when Pakistan was looking for a new fighter to replace the F-6. The PAF initiated project Sabre II, to upgrade the Chengdu F-7M with a Western engine and Avionics. In January 1987, Grumman Aerospace of US was selected as the main contractor and several other western companies competed to provide the engine and avionics. However, by 1989 the project costs had escalated and the project was deemed a high financial risk by the PAF. In addition, the Chinese relations with the West broke down following the Tiananmen Square protest. Therefore the “Sabre II” project was cancelled. However, Chengdu continued it efforts to improve the F-7M airframe by re-designing air intakes on the sides of the fuselage etc. hence the name Super-7.

The PAF opted for a less ambitious option of acquiring the F-7P Skybolt, an upgraded version of the F-7M. The programme was to support the fleet of F-7P Skybolts with over a 100 F-16 Fighting Falcons.

In the meantime the US was frustrated with Pakistan 's refusal to stop its nuclear weapons development programme and in1990, US imposed military and economic sanctions under the Pressler amendments. This prevented the delivery of F-16s to the PAF, which Pakistan had already paid for.

The PAF was still looking for a modern and capable aircraft to replace the F-6. In February 1992 China Aero Technology Import Corporation invited the PAF to invest in the FC-1 programme, in return Pakistan would enjoy exclusive co-production rights. The PAF got Government approval in October1994 and Pakistan joined the FC-1 programme in1995. Pakistan was to select a Western company by the end of 1995 to provide and integrate the avionics for the FC-1. A letter of Intent (LOI) was signed between Pakistan and China in February 1998 covering airframe development, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation was selected as primary contractor and Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group of Russia was contracted to provide the Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine.

The design work progressed very slowly over the next 18 months due to the US and Western sanctions against Pakistan following Pakistan 's nuclear tests in May 1998. This also prevented delivery of any avionic systems to the PAF from Western companies.

In June 1999 Pakistan and China signed a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1 on a 50-50 partnership. As stated above the project was moving extremely slowly, until in 2001 when the PAF made a major decision to separate the development of the platform from the avionic systems. From that moment on the project started to make progress. It is worth remembering that separating the development of airframe from the avionic systems in 2001 was largely due to the visionary approach of the late Air Chief Marshall Mushaf Ali Mir.

Pakistan named the aircraft “Thunder” and gave it the designation “JF-17” (Joint Fighter 17). The JF-17 will replace the current and aging fleet of A-5s, F-7s and Mirages by 2015. With its multi-role all weather ability the JF-17 is suitable for land, sea and air operations.

Project Sabre II
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

F-7S Sabre II
Role Multi-role combat aircraft
Manufacturer Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Introduction1987
Status Cancelled, replaced by FC-1
Primary user Pakistan Air Force
Developed from Chengdu F-7M

Project Sabre II was an attempt to develop a low-cost multi-role combat aircraft based on an existing design, the Chengdu F-7M(a Chinese derivative of the MiG-21). The project was initiated by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and the Grumman Aerospace Corporation was contracted to work with specialists from the PAF and China to define and develop the concept. The PAF had left the project by March 1989 because it was considered uneconomic. In November 1988 it was reported that Grumman and CATIC would begin a new study to upgrade the F-7M into the Super 7. Grumman pulled out when the United States placed sanctions on China after the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. China continued with the project until it was re-branded as theFC-1 in the early 1990s.

 

[shuntmaster]

India to take part in Bahrain Airshow


Exploring opportunities for exports, India will showcase its fighter aircraft Tejas along with airborne platforms and communication systems at the Bahrain International Airshow during January 16-18.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation along with its production partners from the Industry are taking part in strength.

The show will witness flying demonstration of the ‘AEW&C India’ the latest Airborne Early Warning and Control system that can detect, identify and classify threats present in the surveillance area and act as a command and control centre to support variety of air operations.

DRDO AEW&C aircraft flight displays at Sakhir Airbase for Bahrain International Airshow
Bahrain: India is showcasing during the Bahrain International Airshow, its state-of-the-art airborne platforms and associated sensors & communication systems designed and developed by DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organization, Ministry of Defence, Govt of India). DRDO, along with some of its production partners is displaying India’s strength and expertise in design, development and leading to production at the ‘Bahrain International Airshow’ being held at Sakhir Airbase, Bahrain from 16 – 18 Jan 2014, with the aim of exploring the potential of exporting these advanced systems to friendly countries in the region.
The show will witness flying demonstration of the ‘AEW&C India’ the latest and state of the art Airborne Early Warning and Control system that can detect, identify and classify threats present in the surveillance area and act as a command and control centre to support variety of air operations. The system with its multiple Communication and data links can alert and direct fighters against such threats while providing “Recognizable Air Surface Picture” to the Commanders at the Ground Exploitation Stations. It also comprises of electronic and communication support measures that intercept and classify unfriendly radar transmissions and communication signals. “AEW&C India” with Mission Systems developed by DRDO with modular design and seamlessly integrated on an Embraer 145 aircraft provides a very cost effective solution for C4ISR capabilities. It is based on modern state of art technologies and can be adapted to the needs of any country.
DRDO is also displaying models of Light Combat Aircraft ‘TEJAS’, the ‘Four plus’ generation and highly cost effective fighter aircraft designed and developed by the Department of Defence R&D of the Ministry of Defence and being produced by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. Models of trainer and the Naval versions are also on display. The other items include models of ‘Expendable high Speed Aerial Target’, ‘NISHANT’, the multi mission UAV with Day and Night operational capability for battlefield surveillance & reconnaissance, target tracking & localization, and artillery fire correction; and OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generation System)

A high level DRDO delegation led by Dr Avinash Chander Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and Secretary Defence R&D is participating in the event. The delegation includes Dr S Christopher Distinguished Scientist and Director ‘Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS), Mr Radhakrishnan, Outstanding Scientist and Director Industry Interface & Technology Management and Senior level officials from Indian Industries partnering DRDO in the production of various systems.

Read more: DRDO AEW&C aircraft flight displays at Sakhir Airbase for Bahrain International Airshow

Indian Defence Technologies on display at Bahrain International Airshow

New Delhi: India is showcasing during the Bahrain International Airshow, its state-of-the-art airborne platforms and associated sensors & communication systems designed and developed by Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO).

DRDO, along with some of its production partners is displaying India’s strength and expertise in design, development and leading to production at the ‘Bahrain International Airshow’ being held at Sakhir Airbase, Bahrain from 16 – 18 Jan 2014, with the aim of exploring the potential of exporting these advanced systems to friendly countries in the region.

The show will witness flying demonstration of the ‘AEW&C India’ the latest and state of the art Airborne Early Warning and Control system that can detect, identify and classify threats present in the surveillance area and act as a command and control centre to support variety of air operations.
The system with its multiple Communication and data links can alert and direct fighters against such threats while providing “Recognizable Air Surface Picture” to the Commanders at the Ground Exploitation Stations.

It also comprises of electronic and communication support measures that intercept and classify unfriendly radar transmissions and communication signals.

"AEW&C India" with Mission Systems developed by DRDO with modular design and seamlessly integrated on an Embraer 145 aircraft provides a very cost effective solution for C4ISR capabilities. It is based on modern state of art technologies and can be adapted to the needs of any country.

DRDO is also displaying models of Light Combat Aircraft ‘TEJAS’, the ‘Four plus’ generation and highly cost effective fighter aircraft designed and developed by the Department of Defence R&D of the Ministry of Defence and being produced by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

Models of trainer and the Naval versions are also on display. The other items include models of ‘Expendable high Speed Aerial Target’, ‘NISHANT’, the multi mission UAV with Day and Night operational capability for battlefield surveillance & reconnaissance, target tracking & localization and artillery fire correction and OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generation System)

A high level DRDO delegation led by Dr Avinash Chander, Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and Secretary Defence R&D is participating in the event. The delegation includes Dr S Christopher, Distinguished Scientist and Director ‘Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS), Mr Radhakrishnan, Outstanding Scientist and Director Industry Interface & Technology Management and Senior level officials from Indian Industries partnering DRDO in the production of various systems.


For exports, Tejas on display in Bahrain air show

NEW DELHI (PTI): Seeking to explore the export potential of its homemade defence equipment, India is showcasing weapon systems like Light Combat Aircraft Tejas and the airborne early warning systems aircraft at the Bahrain international air show.

"DRDO, along with some of its production partners, is displaying India's strength and expertise in design with the aim of exploring the potential of exporting these advanced systems to friendly countries in the region," a Defence Ministry release said here.

The DRDO has put the flying demonstration of its AEW&C aircraft at the show along with the models of the LCA Tejas, which is being promoted as a new generation cost-effective fighter plane.

"The show will witness flying demonstration of the AEW&C system that can detect, identify and classify threats present in the surveillance area and act as a command and control centre to support variety of air operations," it said.

The DRDO is also showcasing the models of trainer and the naval versions of the LCA at the show.

"The other items include models of "Expendable high Speed Aerial Target", "NISHANT", the multi mission UAV with Day and Night operational capability for battlefield surveillance and reconnaissance.

DRDO chief Avinash Chander is participating in the event along with Distinguished Scientist and Director, Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS) S Christopher and officials from Indian Industries partnering DRDO in the production of various systems.

It is easier to follow in one's footsteps than it is to blaze one's own trail.

Let me know when the Chinese create something on their own instead of copying and pasting one of our designs (or the Ruskies for that matter).

Fighter China -1 (FC-1) a.k.a. JF-17, is the first fighter jet the Chinese ever made on their own. However, FC-1 started off as a upgrade project (Super-7) for F-7 fighter, which is a MiG-21 copy.

 

[Slayer786]

40 years is a massive exaggeration wouldn't you say mate? I mean I like to
I can identify similar traits with the Chinese... they improved even more so than India.. Matter of fact so has every other Asian nation... But this begs the question, what has Pakistan done in the past 24 years? Nothing.

And you want the rest of the world to believe you have the capability to build fighter jets from scratch? Pakistan putting together a JF-17 from parts bought from China and claiming it to be a indigenous fighter is like me going to IKEA, buying a table and putting it together and calling myself a carpenter. So keep harping on other countries minor inadequacies , because while you're laughing/nit-picking they're moving ahead in the world while your country stagnates.

Well why are we suddenly discussing about Pakistan? This thread was for Tejas plane, which is still not ready to be inducted after 40 years.

Also Pakistan has been under sanctions more than India and still we are making planes, tanks, submarines and Navy ships among other things. ALready our JF-17 planes are in the Airforce and our Al-Khalid tanks are considered one of the best tanks in the world. And we are building Agosta submarines which are one of the top submarines in Asia. But again we should not go off topic by discussing about Pakistan.

Long journey to the sky
January 6, 2014 00:34 IST


It has been 30 years in the making, has cost Rs.172.69 billion, and will easily take another year if not more to clear the last lap. Tejas, the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd-manufactured Light Combat Aircraft that received its second “initial operational clearance” — it got the first IOC in January 2011 — and was inducted into the Indian Air Force last month, is meant to replace the ageing fleet of MiG21s and MiG27s. But that goal is still some years away. First, the aircraft needs to get its Final Operational Clearance. The IOC certifies that the aircraft can fly, the FOC that it can fight. In order to be certified as an operational fighter, the LCA, developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency, must undergo intensive trials of its weapons systems; the Air Force also wants it to be fitted with air-to-air refuelling capability. Going by the track record of the LCA project, all this could take the deadline for the FOC from December 2014 to mid-2015. Then too, the payload and agility of the Tejas will not match the IAF’s expectations. The supersonic LCA’s General Electric F404 engine — an indigenously developed engine did not quite cut it — will allow only short-range missiles and laser-guided 500-kg bombs, less weaponry than was originally budgeted for. The limited thrust of the engine will also curtail its agility. The IAF will have two squadrons of the LCA, that is, 40 planes including eight trainer craft. HAL hopes to roll them out fast enough for the first squadron to be in place by 2016. But what the IAF is waiting for is Tejas Mark II, which is to be equipped with the more powerful GE 414 engine. For that, however, the aircraft may need to be re-engineered, and the process could well take another 10 years or more.

Source: The Hindu

 

[h0mer]

Well why are we suddenly discussing about Pakistan? This thread was for Tejas plane, which is still not ready to be inducted after 40 years.

Because your country-men decided to pollute this thread with snide remarks and statements like the above.

Also Pakistan has been under sanctions more than India and still we are making planes, tanks, submarines and Navy ships among other things.

Buying the parts off the shelf and assembling them in your country does not mean you make planes, it means you assemble them. Those parts will not be available come war time.

ALready Chinese JF-17 planes are in the Airforce and Chinese Al-Khalid tanks are considered one of the best tanks in the world. And the French are building Agosta submarines which are one of the top submarines in Asia. But again we should not go off topic by discussing about Pakistan.

Fixed it for you. How can you claim to build all those things when your country can't even build a simple car? And you want to believe that your country can manufacture complex things like fighter jets and submarines?

At the end of the day both jets the Tejas and the JF-17 are numbers planes. They give their respective countries only a minor boost in aerial capabilities from their previous generation jets. Difference is the Tejas also gives the ability for the Indians to design and build their own jets from here on out. Not sure I can say the same about the Pakistanis.

 

[OrionHunter]

DRDO IAF ko Tejas de nahin sakthe par export karna chahthe hai? Lol!

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

DRDO IAF ko Tejas de nahin sakthe par export karna chahthe hai? Lol!

Many countries want tejas don't see a light, thats why they shifted target goal every time

 

[Superboy]

At the end of the day both jets the Tejas and the JF-17 are numbers planes. They give their respective countries only a minor boost in aerial capabilities from their previous generation jets. Difference is the Tejas also gives the ability for the Indians to design and build their own jets from here on out. Not sure I can say the same about the Pakistanis.

China has already gone past the 4th generation stage and can design its own 5th generation planes like J-20 and J-31. Can't say the same about India. Pakistan is a small country. Doesn't need to design its own planes when it can get from China.

 

[Slayer786]

Because your country-men decided to pollute this thread with snide remarks and statements like the above.



Buying the parts off the shelf and assembling them in your country does not mean you make planes, it means you assemble them. Those parts will not be available come war time.



Fixed it for you. How can you claim to build all those things when your country can't even build a simple car? And you want to believe that your country can manufacture complex things like fighter jets and submarines?

At the end of the day both jets the Tejas and the JF-17 are numbers planes. They give their respective countries only a minor boost in aerial capabilities from their previous generation jets. Difference is the Tejas also gives the ability for the Indians to design and build their own jets from here on out. Not sure I can say the same about the Pakistanis.

You know that Tejas still buys parts from other countries in building its LCA planes. 40% of the parts are still imported from outside. So even after 30 or 40 years or so you guys still import 40% of parts to build that plane. So what is the difference?
Yes we have some parts still imported for our planes, tanks and submarines but like you guys most are made in Pakistan.

Again why are you bringing Pakistan into discussions here, it is about Tejas planes. But not only that it seems your MBT is also only 45% made of local parts and a whopping 55% of foreign imports.

Desi defence showpieces powered by videshi parts
Rajat Pandit, TNNJan 13, 2014, 01.39AM IST

NEW DELHI: The Tejas light combat aircraft, 30 years in the making, is just 60% indigenous as of now. The story of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank is even worse. First sanctioned in May 1974, 55% of the tank is still made of imported parts. This is the recurring theme across India's fledgling defence industrial base (DIB), with the government failing to whip DRDO and its sprawling empire of over 50 laboratories as well as the five defence PSUs, four shipyards and 50 ordnance factories into shape.

The defence ministry, with its constant flip-flops, has also failed to spur the domestic private sector into entering the defence production sector in a big way. Neither has it managed to attract foreign direct investment (FDI), notching up a measly $5 million in the last 14 years.

AK Antony may often tom-tom "indigenisation" as one of his guiding mantras, which he feels can curb corruption, but the ground reality has hardly changed in the over seven years he has been at the helm in MoD. India continues to wallow as the world's largest arms importer, with the armed forces still getting around 65% of their military hardware and software from abroad.

Source: THE TIMES OF INDIA
© 2014 Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd. All rights reserved

 

[Superboy]

F-22 has foreign parts. There isn't very many planes that are wholly indigenous.