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Why is Pakistan not purchasing the Rafale?

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Stil i ask which should PAF buy.

$3 billion x 50 F16 BLOCK 60 or $5 billion x 50 Rafale./Typhoon

Pakistan have already bought F-16 blk 52 so at this moment no question of buying Rafle.

The only possible way to end up with Rafale is that French again use old channels to reach out President zardari and he may try to reach PAF cheif to return favor and we may end up with Rafale but this is beyond guessing.

I almost forgot to ask you...which should InAF should buy? FA-18 or F-16?
 
In Reply Batman.

Personally i think Rafale is the best. Its a true multi role fighter. Its spectra suite is designed to avoid detection whilst carrying out EW operations.
Its design gives low RCS and it will have a very powerful AESA radar soon and the new MBDA BVR missle Meteore.

I personally hope IAF gives the nod to Rafale.. Would be very smart choice.

I think THE F16/F18 once great state of the art fighters have been surpassed by the Typhoon & Rafale.
 
In Reply Batman.

Personally i think Rafale is the best. Its a true multi role fighter. Its spectra suite is designed to avoid detection whilst carrying out EW operations.
Its design gives low RCS and it will have a very powerful AESA radar soon and the new MBDA BVR missle Meteore.

I personally hope IAF gives the nod to Rafale.. Would be very smart choice.

I think THE F16/F18 once great state of the art fighters have been surpassed by the Typhoon & Rafale.
Here is what France claim about the SPECTRA...

Thales Spectra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thales Group and Dassault Aviation have mentioned stealthy jamming modes for the SPECTRA system, to reduce the aircraft's apparent radar signature. It is not known exactly how these work or even if the capability is fully operational, but it may employ active cancellation technology, such as has been tested by Thales and MBDA. Active cancellation is supposed to work by sampling and analysing incoming radar and feeding it back to the hostile emitter out of phase thus cancelling out the returning radar echo.
In theory and application, the technique DOES work. However, for whatever reasons I do not know, France is omitting the ECCM technique in the sales brochure.

Here are some more radar principles...

The vast majority of the world's radar system, ground and air, are of the pulsed mode of operation. A pulse is essentially an on/off switch mode of transmission. Each pulse will have a time duration of when it was created and when its energy was cut off. Pulses give us target resolutions, the base information are range and speed. If one pulse produce an echo at .01 sec and the next pulse produced an echo at .02 sec we know the target is moving. Then we have other factors such as Doppler and because an aircraft is a complex object, features on the target will produce other forms of returns and that give us target aspect angle but these subjects will overwhelm the current topic so I will not get into them for now.

Look through this source for basic information on radar pulses...

PULSE-REPETITION FREQUENCY (prf)

If there are ten pulses and stop, that is a 'pulse train'. If there are ten more pulses and stop, that is another pulse train. And so on...

Between pulses are gaps, remember that a pulse is essentially an on/off switch of energy, and the gaps create what is called 'pulse repitition frequency' (PRF). The above link has an illustration of a PRF, for simplicity's sake they call it 'rest time', but that is the PRF.

What the SPECTRA ECM suite does is analyze a series of incoming pulses and create an out-of-phase transmission to (hopefully) cancel out, or rather mask any echoes coming off the aircraft's body. The suite DOES NOT control those echoes. The suite is actually a transmitter in itself, pretty much like an ECM pod but with slightly more sophistication in transmission. If the incoming pulse train consists of, for example, 1000 pulses, based on my experience, the suite should be sophisticate enough to need less than ten pulses, may be 15 at the most, to form a reasonably accurate analysis of the hostile radar's transmission characteristics and to create an ECM response.

To take another gratuitous jab at Russia and China, the SPECTRA may be good enough against Russian and Chinese avionics junk.

With US radars, the ECCM technique is called PRF jittering...Example...

Surveillance Radar RTS-6400|Multi-spectral operation
ECCM Features

* Frequency agility
* Random PRF stagger
* PRF jitter
* Programmable digital pulse compression
* Low antenna sidelobes
* Large instantaneous dynamic range
* Track-on-jam
* Adaptive tracking filters
* Scenario-adaptive doppler processing
* Multi-spectral operation

Remember the example of a pulse train above -- If there are ten pulses and stop, that is a 'pulse train'. If there are ten more pulses and stop, that is another pulse train. And so on...

What if the transmitter change the pulse repition frequency (PRF) on the second pulse train? And on the third? And on the fourth? And so on...? That is called PRF jittering and it is VERY effective against ECM suites using pulse freq analysis to create out-of-phase countermeasure transmissions. That ECM suite must constantly reset its analysis because successive pulse trains, with different PRF, will have slightly different characteristics.

To make the explanation slightly simpler...Say there are ten pulses sent at the target. The target will use two pulses to analyze the hostile radar characteristics. But that mean the hostile radar now has two echoes from those first two pulses to analyze the target before the other eight pulses are garbage due to ECM.

If the next ten pulses are EXACTLY the same as the first pulse train, then the target have just disappeared from the scope. But if the next pulse train have slightly different characteristics, such as a higher or lower PRF through PRF jittering, then we are back to point A where the target need two pulses to analyze literally a new transmission and the hostile radar have two genuine echoes that came off the target. So do the math...Two echoes out of ten pulses in a pulse train and there are one thousand pulse trains. That is good enough for a target track and perhaps even a missile solution.

What if we change the frequency on the next pulse train...And the next...And the next? Now this electronic battle between the combatants have gotten much more complex because each pulse train have more diversity due to different frequencies and PRF. Each pulse train will give the hostile radar at least two echoes of the target before the successive eight became garbage.

Sophisticated avionics will have PRF jittering INSIDE the pulse train itself, not merely from pulse train to pulse train. It will remember the exact characteristics of each transmission and compare those characteristics against whatever returned from the target. An addition is to change the frequency from pulse to pulse as well as changing the PRF inside a pulse train. What I said here is only a scratch on the surface of a very complex topic. Whether US radars have pulse frequency jittering as well as PRF jittering or not -- I will not say. The readers can try to find any publicly available information and form their own conclusions. But I do not take jabs at Russian and Chinese junks from out of nothing.
 
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I would not go for US planes. It is difficult to decide for anything European. India did the right by going for non western plane with some western equipment. That way they can not control your assets. Cause if you let them they will. To answer it precisely, go for EF2000 suit but French ECM, radar and weapons. Get either J10B-II or J11 and join Jxx. Upgrade JF17 to a better level and only a2a. Get internal bay for Jxx and J10B-II...

would be a nice option if PAF had plenty of $$. think of a more probable scenario.
 
MOD EDIT: Addressed

flies dont sting do they:smokin:i see u feeling the pain.anyway rafale is on the list for pak but in limited numbers.

PAF will never go for rafale. $$. I heard it will probably not be chosen for the indian MMRCA for the same reason.
 
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wat if india gets both aircraft Rafale and ef2000?then wat we will do b/c they r already flying su30mki and two more devils:devil:.im sure india would get atleast one aircraft of them which is ef2000.
so u guys think that f16 can tak down ef2000?:argh:
:guns::sick:
 
F16 can take down EF2000 without any problem whatsoever however India will buy F18ish from US.Ef200 has no chance.Dont worry bro PAF will be in good shape in 3-5 years.We will also get J10 by the time Indians start getting MRCA Jet's.
 
F16 can take down EF2000 without any problem whatsoever however India will buy F18ish from US.Ef200 has no chance.Dont worry bro PAF will be in good shape in 3-5 years.We will also get J10 by the time Indians start getting MRCA Jet's.

inshallah:agree:
 
oh plzzz. EF can kick f16ABCD.
kcik F16 :what: i thought by EF you meant a plane!!! ;)

dear i never siad that F16 will always bring down the EF, all i stated was that it can! it have registered a kill against the top most F22!

these are the comparisons where the man behind the machine matters!

regards!
 
kcik F16 :what: i thought by EF you meant a plane!!! ;)

dear i never siad that F16 will always bring down the EF, all i stated was that it can! it have registered a kill against the top most F22!

these are the comparisons where the man behind the machine matters!

regards!

do some research man!:argh:

f22 vs f16 ratio is around 100:1

while ef vs f22 was found to be 1:2 by computer simulation. EF is much better
 
do some research man!:argh:

f22 vs f16 ratio is around 100:1

while ef vs f22 was found to be 1:2 by computer simulation. EF is much better

why do you want me to repeat the same thing again ans agian???? :hitwall:
i NEVER said that F16 is better than EF! all i said was that F16 is the only aircraft to register a kill against the F22! all the members will confirm and i request them to do so, it is a very common news and can be found all over the net if you bother to search :blah:
now if you have some proble with the post that F16 IS THE ONLY PLANE TO REGISTER A KILL AGAINST F22 and you thing it to be wrong let me know!!
i hope you have brain to understand this simple post !

regards!
 
F16 can take down EF2000 without any problem whatsoever however India will buy F18ish from US.Ef200 has no chance.Dont worry bro PAF will be in good shape in 3-5 years.We will also get J10 by the time Indians start getting MRCA Jet's.

This is good we are getting J10B in 2015 but dude dont you think that only 36 of J10B not enough to be able to compete or eradicate the threat of Indian MMRCA 126-200 Jets.

126-200 VS only mere 36 of handfull it's not enough I guess. Is there anybody who can confirm that we are only and only getting 36 jets. Is there any one with the inside news that PAF will buy more then 36 as in my opinion PAF should get arround 150-200 of J10Bs to better compete against IAF in future.

Is there anyone who can say with pure inside news truth that PAF will get more then 36 J10B let say arround 150-200?:crazy:
 
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