Turkish Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler: We are considering purchasing 40 Eurofighter Typhoons

[LegionnairE]

Oh well then agree to disagree I guess...
...but considering that the per unit price of F16s(especially used ones and taking into account Ozgur upgrade cost) is less compared with the unit cost of Typhoon(plus the additional costs of having a whole new jet type)...

So this means TuAF will be able to field more F16s(Ozgur upgraded) than Typhoons.

Long range Turkish AAMs(including the ramjet powered one) should all be available in the next decade or so.
If Ozgur upgrade is anywhere near the capabilities of F16S block 70...then with these long range AAMs it can go head to head against Greek Rafales.

The political headaches and maneuvering to secure either of these from the west would be the same.

So taking into account all these factors...I am still of the opinion that more F16s(Ozgur) are a better option with less headaches than the Typhoons to carry TuAF until KAAN is ready.

ÖZGÜR will happen regardless of Typhoon purchase, these are two seperate things.

 

[Cookie Monster]

ÖZGÜR will happen regardless of Typhoon purchase, these are two seperate things.

I'm not saying that...
...I'm saying instead of 40 Typhoons...IMO it's much better for Turkey to get 50-60 additional F16s and upgrade them to Ozgur standard.

 

[LegionnairE]

There will be no war between Turkey and Greece, so let's abandon the competition mentality of the 90s and invest our money in our own defense projects.

IF you can understand the military as a tool in diplomacy, you will realize the fact that you need a military force even if you NEVER go to war.

I'm not saying that...
...I'm saying instead of 40 Typhoons...IMO it's much better for Turkey to get 50-60 additional F16s and upgrade them to Ozgur standard.

That's not on the table. Americans aren't selling.

And Americans wouldn't agree with "just give us engine and airframe we'll fill it up with our own avionics"

What you're saying is not an option. America isn't Italy, and Lockheed Martin isn't Leonardo

 

[Ghostkiller]

But will UK Germany Italy Spain let Turkey mount their indigenous equipments like Cakir, SOM, GÖKTUĞ , ATMACA and GÖKTUĞ missiles programs? Because Turkey must put a clause saying that we can equipped our EFT with our own avionics, armaments etc..

 

[LegionnairE]

But will UK Germany Italy Spain let Turkey mount their indigenous equipments like Cakir, SOM, GÖKTUĞ , ATMACA and GÖKTUĞ missiles programs? Because Turkey must put a clause saying that we can equipped our EFT with our own avionics, armaments etc..

We never had such problems with Europeans, Lots of Turkish equipment in the Reis class (German Type 214) Lots of Turkish equipment on the T129 (Leonardo A129) and many other such cases


The problem is Germans' libshittery. They are butthurt because Turkey will bomb the "poor innocent little PKK" with these planes.

Utterly detached from reality.

 

[Ghostkiller]

We never had such problems with Europeans, Lots of Turkish equipment in the Reis class (German Type 214) Lots of Turkish equipment on the T129 (Leonardo A129) and many other such cases


The problem is Germans' libshittery. They are butthurt because Turkey will bomb the "poor innocent little PKK" with these planes.

Utterly detached from reality.

Then good luck for Turkey.

 

[MMM-E]

And f16vs and RAFALE don't have counter countermeasure technology what a paranoid you're

wth is counter countermeasure technology to stop 48N6E3 , SIPER , AIM-120C7 and GOKDOGAN-GOKHAN Missiles ?

SPECTRA ? lol ..... fantasy boys

@MMM-E Do you believe we can get the Eurofighter? Erdoğan insulted German Chancellor Olaf Scholz at the press conference. didn't you watch?

The UK and Spain said that we will solve it.


Also Turkish Airlines buys 355 Aircraft from Airbus for $65 billion

We can put pressure on Germany which has shares in Airbus, regarding 355 aircraft purchases

 

[Haldorss]

Erdoğan insulted German Chancellor Olaf Scholz at the press conference. didn't you watch?

Why don't you post a clip?

The problem is Germans' libshittery. They are butthurt because Turkey will bomb the "poor innocent little PKK" with these planes.

Tell the PKK to disarm, then turkey won't have to bomb them, and the Germans can't use it as an excuse.

 

[mulj]

I respect Turkish hardware and I have always welcomed Pakistan - Turkish cooperation in all sectors including defense. I am a friend.

But being a friend does not entail disregarding critical thinking and common sense. I do not appreciate and endorse statements like "but F-15 is a joke .... F-16V and RAFALE is full of joke". Do you honestly expect anybody sensible to take you seriously in view of these claims? You need to understand this problem.

Let's recheck the information that was shared before:

In First, Russia’s S-300 Fired 13 Missiles At Israeli F-16I Over Syrian Airspace, All 13 Missiles Failed!

Israeli F-16I fighter jets are fitted with Rafael Skyshield advanced jamming POD that deceived Russian S-400 and S-300 surface-to-air missiles since Russia deployed its missile system in Syria. Russian forces opened fire on Israeli jets with S-300 anti-aircraft missiles at the end of an...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Emphasis mine. Israeli Air Force (IAF) equipped F-16I with Rafael Sky Shield jamming pod(s) to attack targets in Masyaf in a difficult and demanding mission in 2022. This configuration turned out to be survivable when up against advanced Syrian and Russian defenses in the region. Now let us have a look at different configurations:

F-16 Block 50/52+ = AN/APG-68(V)9 Pulse Doppler + AN/ALQ-211 AIDEWS
F-16I Sufa = AN/APG-68(V)9 Pulse Doppler + Elisra EW suite + Rafael Sky Shield jamming pod (SEAD)
Rafale F3R = AESA RBE2 + SPECTRA
F-16 Block 70/72+ = SABR AN/APG-83 AESA + AN/ALQ-254(V)1 AIDEWS*

*The ALQ-257 IVEWS is a completely internal electronic warfare suite, incorporating all Electronic Warfare functionality, including jamming of current and future threats. This means that it incorporates all functions previously performed by the ECM pods, freeing the F-16’s centerline station from the ALQ-131 and ALQ-184 pods and allowing it to be used for the 300 gal external fuel tank or other payloads.

Let’s Talk About The F-16’s Next-Generation Electronic Warfare Suite

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite is set to replace the legacy EW systems of the U.S. Air Force F-16 fleet. The U.S. Air Force and

theaviationist.com

You need to understand these differences before passing verdicts like "but F-15 is a joke .... F-16V and RAFALE is full of joke". Both Rafale F3R and F-16V are equipped with sophisticated EW capabilities by default and Hellenic Air Force might not be hesitant to engage Turkish A2/AD systems with cruise missiles in a (hypothetical) war.

How many S-400 systems you have deployed? Are these integrated?
How many Siper systems you have deployed? Are these integrated?
Your A2/AD situation is lame to be honest.

You cannot rely upon these systems to counter Greek military in a (hypothetical) war.
Your statement ("Greek RAFALE cannot even come within 100 km of Turkish airspace in a conflict") cannot be taken seriously. There is no proof of an S-400 system obtaining a lock on an Rafale F3R around 200 KM mark. You are mistaking Rafale F3R for obsolete Ukrainian Mig-29. Rafale F3R is a FAR MORE capable and survivable jet fighter in comparison to Mig-29 variants in current times.

Turkish Air Force and standoff munitions such as drones and cruise missiles are your best bet for DEAD missions. Following article provides an excellent view of Greek and Turkish options:

Face-Off Over The Aegean: How Greek And Turkish Air Forces Stack Up

With tensions rising over energy reserves in the Aegean Sea, the disgruntled neighbors have air arms that are well-equipped and at high readiness.

www.thedrive.com

You have mentioned a variety of drones and missiles that can be used to attack Patriot systems in Greece but these will not be easy to overcome. Patriot systems have demonstrated the capability to intercept a wide range of airborne threats including drones the size of a quad-copter. Patriot systems are more reliable and capable than any air defense system in Turkish inventory due to following reason:

"Since it was first fielded, Patriot has been used by five nations in more than 250 combat engagements against manned and unmanned aircraft, cruise missiles, and tactical ballistic missiles. Since January of 2015, Patriot has intercepted more than 150 ballistic missiles in combat operations around the world; more than 90 of those intercepts involved the low-cost Raytheon-made Guidance Enhanced Missile family of surface-to-air missiles.

Those engagements were possible because Patriot is built on a foundation of more than 3,000 ground tests and over 1,400 flight tests.

Each and every time Patriot is tested or live fired, engineers uncover new ways to further improve or enhance the system. The improvements are necessary because the threat is constantly changing and becoming more sophisticated.

The result of the improvements and enhancements is that today’s Patriot is advanced, modern, and capable of defeating the full spectrum of threats. It shares the same name and basic purpose of the Patriot of the past, but that is where the similarity ends."

Greece have deployed a number of A2/AD systems and have linked them to different radar systems for situational awareness in the region:

Turkey might be well-equipped to defeat Greek S-300 PMU1 and TOR-M1 systems in clashes but Patriot systems will posit a significant threat to Turkish options.

Blue-On-Blue! The story of the U.S. Navy F/A-18 that was shot down by a U.S. Army PAC-3 Patriot missile battery during OIF - The Aviation Geek Club

Blue-On-Blue! The story of the U.S. Navy F/A-18 that was shot down by a U.S. Army PAC-3 Patriot missile battery during OIF

theaviationgeekclub.com

Ukrainian Patriot Missile Shot Down Russia’s Su-35 and Su-34 Fighter Bombers

The Ukrainian Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ignat said that five enemy air targets had been shot down in the Bryansk Region. The Ukrainian Air Force has published a video showing the MIM-104 Patriot air defense system. According to the markings on the aircraft's airframe, Patriot missiles shot...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Greece also have AEW&C aircraft to monitor Turkish military activity in the region and Hellenic Air Force will be mobilized to counter Turkish Air Force and engage airborne threats in the process. Patriot systems will be very dangerous to contend with in this situation. Patriot systems can make it impractical for Turkish Air Force to operate very close to Greek mainland.

There are additional factors to consider. Who will be supporting Greece in this (hypothetical) war? What will be the situation in the sea? France might be willing to support Greece in this (hypothetical) war. This might become a problem for Turkey.

You speak in zero sum manner: Turkey have A B C D E F G H drones and missiles that it can throw at Greek defenses to win the war. If it was this simple. You can see Russia using a huge number of standoff munitions in Ukraine to limited effect. You can see Russia trying to defeat sophisticated defenses in Kyiv to no avail. You can see Russian navy suffering losses in the Black Sea. Russia did not expect NATO to provide weapons to Ukraine in war and this became a problem.

I do not think that US will welcome a war between NATO member states, you need to relax and chill.

Let's have a look at Israel now.

Israel's Vaunted Integrated Air Defense System Explained

Spurred by potent regional threats, Israel's air defense system is arguably the most capable on Earth and it may soon be put to the test.

www.thedrive.com

Israel is much better equipped to fight a conventional war than Greece and US is willing to support it.

Your statement ("Turkiye is not HAMAS") is not a valid position. Hamas does not fight Israel in conventional terms but in unconventional terms and Israel cannot open up on Gaza in full capacity due to global pressure. Turkish military operates in conventional terms and it has no choice but to contend with IDF in the conventional battle-space in a (hypothetical) war. This is where you will find out what Israel is made of.

Turkey is a regional power that can be respected but not a superpower like your posts seem to project.

It is good overview but you forgot one crucial thing, most of the bases and greek airports are in range of turkish TRG-300 and other balistic threats which in first hours could render greek airforce on ground, greeks by far does not have capabilities to counter that. After that initial attack rest of the job would be mopping of scattered greek assets in aegan sea and islands.

@MMM-E Do you believe we can get the Eurofighter? Erdoğan insulted German Chancellor Olaf Scholz at the press conference. didn't you watch?

Where was insult there?

 

[LegionnairE]

Tell the PKK to disarm, then turkey won't have to bomb them, and the Germans can't use it as an excuse.

Lol


World peace achieved.

It is good overview but you forgot one crucial thing, most of the bases and greek airports are in range of turkish TRG-300 and other balistic threats which in first hours could render greek airforce on ground, greeks by far does not have capabilities to counter that. After that initial attack rest of the job would be mopping of scattered greek assets in aegan sea and islands.

They are definitely not in TRG-300 range.

Such an attack would be carried out by SLAM-ER and SOM missiles. But Greece has similiar storm shadow missiles too. It's more about who attacks first.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

wth is counter countermeasure technology to stop 48N6E3 , SIPER , AIM-120C7 and GOKDOGAN-GOKHAN Missiles ?

SPECTRA ? lol ..... fantasy boys

And which counter countermeasure technology was save you from Greek BVRs and SAMs lol think before you post you paranoid person

 

[MMM-E]

Such an attack would be carried out by SLAM-ER and SOM missiles. But Greece has similiar storm shadow missiles too. It's more about who attacks first.

1 -- Greece has only 90 SCALP Cruise Missiles ... nothing else

and 90 SCALP is not enough to hit all Air Bases in Turkiye

even Turkiye has strategic dept for self defense ( 1.600 km )
Greek SCAP Missile has range of 250 km


2 -- Turkiye has 1.000+ ATACMS , YILDIRIM , BORA , TAYFUN , SLAM-ER , SOM , ATMACA , IHA-230 , Missiles to hit all Air Bases , AD Systems in Greece

and Turkiye has capability to produce more 1.000 Ballistic and Cruise Missiles including CAKIR and KUZGUN-TJ

but Greece can produce nothing ...

They are definitely not in TRG-300 range.

Turkiye can use Naval platforms to fire 120 km TRG-300 Missiles to hit PATRIOTs in Skyros
and S300s , Air Bases in Crete

we fired MLRS from TCG BAYRAKTAR LST

Even We can fire 150 km YILDIRIM Ballistic Missiles from Cargo Ships to hit military targets in Crete

similar to Israeli concept with LORA Missile from Cargo Ship

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkiye can use Naval platforms to fire 120 km TRG-300 Missiles to hit PATRIOTs in Skyros
and S300s , Air Bases in Crete

Moronic concept

We're not Iran

1 -- Greece has only 90 SCALP Cruise Missiles ... nothing else

More would be given during wartime. Just like Ukraine

90 is more than enough for the opening salvos of the war

 

[MMM-E]

And which counter countermeasure technology was save you from Greek BVRs and SAMs lol think before you post you paranoid person

What a fantasy boy Greek BVRs ? lol

We dont need even Fighter Jets to do it
Turkiye has longer Range SAMs to turn Greek Fighter Jets into scrap of metal from 150-200 km

also when KIZILELMA Block2 unmanned stealth Fighter Jet enter the game , Greek F-16V and RAFALE will not know even what will hit them


AND Thanks to Turkish technology
Havelsan EHSIM RF expendable decoy to provide protection against RF guided missiles

 

[White and Green with M/S]

wth is counter countermeasure technology to stop 48N6E3 , SIPER , AIM-120C7 and GOKDOGAN-GOKHAN Missiles ?

SPECTRA ? lol ..... fantasy boys

And RAFALE is using SPECTRA but additional electronic counter countermeasure technology

What a fantasy boy Greek BVRs ? lol

We dont need even Fighter Jets to do it
Turkiye has longer Range SAMs to turn Greek Fighter Jets into scrap of metal from 150-200 km

also when KIZILELMA Block2 unmanned stealth Fighter Jet enter the game , Greek F-16V and RAFALE will not know even what will hit them


AND Thanks to Turkish technology
Havelsan EHSIM RF expendable decoy to provide protection against RF guided missiles
View attachment 1029408
View attachment 1029409

Lol you have lots of delusional your old f16s have more chances to being destroyed by Greek BVRs and SAMs


And they don't need to enter your airspace but they will fire Strom shdow Cruise missile at your SAMs and game over for your SAMs