The Pothohar Plateau

[jatt+gutts]

Most of singers in Indian punjab have jatt surnames.

majority are non jatts.. doest mean singing is only mirassi profession. there are Khatri singers, mirassi singers and jatt singers.

 

[Kabira]

It's called "luddi". It's the staple Potohari wedding dance. And we're not exactly "Punjabi". Have you seen those mirpuri people in UK? They are ethnic Potoharis, but from Azad Kashmir(messed up borders in Pakistan). And yes we do look different, but some people deny the differences. Too much politic involved.

This is what your common Potoharis look like, and the flute music is very Potohari:

You are right, uk mirpuris may get offended even though they speak potohari and not even pahari? Because Mirpur like Bhimber is basically plains compared to other Azad Kashmir areas. Anyway i don't think Mirpuris in UK who are majority jats look different then other jats in Punjab.

But Azad Kashmir is very diverse, there is huge Sudhan (pashtuns), gujjars etc population. Plus pretty big comunity of ethnic kashmiris/dards in Neelum and Muzzafarabad districts. Overall very diverse area and UK mirpuris jats who look more like plain punjabis are not really representive of overall Azad Kashmir.

 

[xyxmt]

Dhani dialect of Chakwal. It starts from 1:45 onward, and ends at 4:30.

I don't remember the name of the linguistic study, but it was done by a British linguist, and he classified Dhani as a dialect of Hindko rather than standard Potohari-Pahari. With that said, people of Chakwal and south western Jhelum still identify themselves as Potohari, even though they speak a dhani dialect, which sounds different in my opinion. Standard Potohari type dialects are also spoken in some regions of Punjab.

If you're a native Punjabi speaker, can you easily understand it or does it sound too accented and "different"? What about Potohari speakers, can you understand this dialect easily?

its not potohari its hindko, from fateh jang and around that area potohari slowly changes into Hindko

 

[xyxmt]

It sounds pretty similar to Hindko. Some Hindko nationalists even include Chakwal in their potential province. I bet general people from central like regions will have trouble understanding his accent and vocabulary. Does it sound easier or difficult than Potohari?

And Azad Kashmiris are a confused lot. I always laugh when they describe themselves as "Kashmiri jatt:, "Kashmiri rajput" etc. I guess they took on this "Kashmiri" identity to disown any association with Punjab, as do the hindko people, who even deny that their language sounds quite similar to Punjabi and is a dialect rather than a language. Potohari/Pahari can be considered a different language though considering it has its own literature. Literature is the main criteria that sets languages apart. Hence Italian, Portuguese and Spanish are considered separate languages even though they are mutually understandable. Similarly Swedish and Norwegian languages are considered separate.

PS: Dhanni speakers might speak a hindko like dialect, but they are ethnically Potoharis. They are mostly malik awans and rajas, who are the quintessential Potohari tribes.

Chakwal is hindko speaking, as far as hindko and punjabi similarities, how about consider the border areas of sind and punjab, do they speak punjabi or sindi, when does punjabi become sindi or sindi becomes sariaki. You cannot label any language a name then compare another language because Hindko spoken in chakwal will be a bit different than hindko spoken 50 miles north of chakwal or the one spoken in Pishawar. Hindko spoken where I am from includes some pure Persian words examples Shireen is used commonly for sweet but you cant label it persian dialect. My wife who is potohari can undestand maybe 50% of Hindko when I speak fluently with my mom but sometime she asks me what is that you were talking about means she didnt have a clue

Potohar might also be the most crime free region in Pakistan. The traditional dress of Potohar; shalwar kameez, white turban and a woolen waist coast:

The typical Potohari turban:

Tent pegging, known as "neza bazi" in local dialects, is the national sport of the region;

Reason being too many retired soldier with guns in their lockers.

 

[xyxmt]

I wonder if there is any link between malik/malak of pashtuns and awans?...Chief of clan is called malik/malak among pashtuns while in case of awans, it seems, is a general title like khan.

It is pronounced as Malak even by Awans, but I think when they started writing in Urdu it became malik

 

[Roybot]

Is it safe to say that the Potohori culture and people seem more Indic than Iranic? Even more than the "regular" Pakistani Punjabis to an extent.

I wonder if there if relation between the Potohori people and the Hindu Kabul Shahi kingdoms.

 

[Kabira]

Is it safe to say that the Potohori culture and people seem more Indic than Iranic? Even more than the "regular" Pakistani Punjabis to an extent.

I wonder if there if relation between the Potohori people and the Hindu Kabul Shahi kingdoms.

In wiki there are three tribes mentioned. Kamboh, Janjuas and Moyals.

Kamboh nows days mostly are in central punjab in Pakistan and hindu, sikhs kamboh in Indian punjab. Moyals mostly in Indian punjab, because converted ones go by some other names now days. Vast majority of Janjuas live in Potohar and Azad Kashmir with very few in central punjab, also some non-muslims Janjuas in Indian punjab.

 

[Kabira]

Chakwal is hindko speaking, as far as hindko and punjabi similarities, how about consider the border areas of sind and punjab, do they speak punjabi or sindi, when does punjabi become sindi or sindi becomes sariaki. You cannot label any language a name then compare another language because Hindko spoken in chakwal will be a bit different than hindko spoken 50 miles north of chakwal or the one spoken in Pishawar. Hindko spoken where I am from includes some pure Persian words examples Shireen is used commonly for sweet but you cant label it persian dialect. My wife who is potohari can undestand maybe 50% of Hindko when I speak fluently with my mom but sometime she asks me what is that you were talking about means she didnt have a clue
.

So this map is pretty accurate? Jhelum & Rawalpindi pothohari areas while Chakwal and Attock are Hindko/Dhani speaking? A part from that little green dot which is Islamabad, make sense because Islamabad is pretty diverse city with majority being from Central Punjab.

Also Darhab right along Dogri in Narowal district border area seem to be pretty similar to Dogri. I think Dogri/Darhab are like Pothohari/Pahari. At least Pahari spoken by Mirpuris is almost like Pothohari spoken by people of Jhelum in my experience.

 

[Kabira]

majority are non jatts.. doest mean singing is only mirassi profession. there are Khatri singers, mirassi singers and jatt singers.

I know, i was just joking. Anyway the video you posted of Indian punjabis didn't look like punjabis to me. I have seen khalistani sikhs videos and they do resemble Pakistani punjabis somewhat but not the one you posted.

 

[ghoul]

Is it safe to say that the Potohori culture and people seem more Indic than Iranic? Even more than the "regular" Pakistani Punjabis to an extent.

I wonder if there if relation between the Potohori people and the Hindu Kabul Shahi kingdoms.

Yes Hindu Shahis were Potoharis. Most of their buildings are found in Potohar(Nandana, Paharwala etc). Mohyals were said to be the generals of Hindu Shahis, and most Mohyals are found in Potohar. Sanjay Dutt is a Potohari Mohyal for example. Katas Raj in Chakwal was a Mohyal colony. The Hindu Shahi rulers were said to be Kshatriya, hence they most likely belonged to some local Rajput tribe.

 

[ghoul]

Chakwal is hindko speaking, as far as hindko and punjabi similarities, how about consider the border areas of sind and punjab, do they speak punjabi or sindi, when does punjabi become sindi or sindi becomes sariaki. You cannot label any language a name then compare another language because Hindko spoken in chakwal will be a bit different than hindko spoken 50 miles north of chakwal or the one spoken in Pishawar. Hindko spoken where I am from includes some pure Persian words examples Shireen is used commonly for sweet but you cant label it persian dialect. My wife who is potohari can undestand maybe 50% of Hindko when I speak fluently with my mom but sometime she asks me what is that you were talking about means she didnt have a clue



Reason being too many retired soldier with guns in their lockers.

Chakwal and Fatehjhang areas speak Hindko like dialects, but they are not hindkowans. Almost in all the salt range, including south western Jhelum, these Hindko like dialects are spoken. The people, interestingly, call these dialects punjabi. Proper hindko language starts from Chaach ilaqa of Attock and northern Margalla hills.

But all over Potohar, the local people identify with a Potohari ethnic identity(maybe except chaach), and the folk songs and music are same. Chakwal to Murree, same folk poetry is recited, and same music type is played.

Also 50% is an exaggeration. Yes vocabulary is a bit different, but the languages still sound very similar. Peshawari hindko almost sounds like Punjabi and urdu hybrid.

 

[xyxmt]

Chakwal and Fatehjhang areas speak Hindko like dialects, but they are not hindkowans. Almost in all the salt range, including south western Jhelum, these Hindko like dialects are spoken. The people, interestingly, call these dialects punjabi. Proper hindko language starts from Chaach ilaqa of Attock and northern Margalla hills.

But all over Potohar, the local people identify with a Potohari ethnic identity(maybe except chaach), and the folk songs and music are same. Chakwal to Murree, same folk poetry is recited, and same music type is played.

Also 50% is an exaggeration. Yes vocabulary is a bit different, but the languages still sound very similar. Peshawari hindko almost sounds like Punjabi and urdu hybrid.

dialect changes for every language after 50 miles and you dont call it a "like" language. New york dialect is different than new england which is different than texan with different than Newfoundland but they are all english and you dont call them english like languages.

All dialects of Hindko sound like Urdu if you hear is from an distance, hence you cant identify a native Hindko speaker when he is speaks Urdu.

 

[ghoul]

dialect changes for every language after 50 miles and you dont call it a "like" language. New york dialect is different than new england which is different than texan with different than Newfoundland but they are all english and you dont call them english like languages.

All dialects of Hindko sound like Urdu if you hear is from an distance, hence you cant identify a native Hindko speaker when he is speaks Urdu.

The local people don't call their language hindko, that's what I'm saying. Most call their language either punjabi or "chakwali" or something. They also identify with a Potohari identity rather than hindko or punjabi. And Hindko itself is a dialect of punjabi and not a separate language considering it has no literature.

 

[xyxmt]

The local people don't call their language hindko, that's what I'm saying. Most call their language either punjabi or "chakwali" or something. They also identify with a Potohari identity rather than hindko or punjabi. And Hindko itself is a dialect of punjabi and not a separate language considering it has no literature.

no one calls their language hindko in my family we call it punjabi mostly because its all part of punjab, just like potohari dont sy they are speaking potohari they would rather say they are speaking punjabi, same with sariaki people. reason being they are known as punjabi. but if you think its a dialect of punjabi then lets meet somewhere and have some conversation

by the way there are so many common sindhi words in Hindko that growing up in Karachi we had to take sindhi courses and I would ace it while other fail or barely pass it

examples,
if you have to say sit here
punjabi will say "bay ja"
hindko will say "Ajh po or ajho cha"
sindhi would say "Ajho baba"

so is hinkdo a dialect of Sindhi or Punjabi

 

[Samandri]

no one calls their language hindko in my family we call it punjabi mostly because its all part of punjab, just like potohari dont sy they are speaking potohari they would rather say they are speaking punjabi, same with sariaki people. reason being they are known as punjabi. but if you think its a dialect of punjabi then lets meet somewhere and have some conversation

by the way there are so many common sindhi words in Hindko that growing up in Karachi we had to take sindhi courses and I would ace it while other fail or barely pass it

examples,
if you have to say sit here
punjabi will say "bay ja"
hindko will say "Ajh po or ajho cha"
sindhi would say "Ajho baba"

so is hinkdo a dialect of Sindhi or Punjabi

Strange to hear that hindko is dialect of sindhi, wouldnt that be seraiki?. On interesting note seraiki of mianwali is called hindko in our areas (lakki marwat). In lakki city there is community of multanis, who speak seraiki in their homes but is called hindko by us.