The Ground-zero mosque, continued

[Agnostic_Indian]

If US does not allow build a mosque which accordig to the law is allowed..then history will not forgive america.this hypocrisy will become a international shame for them. Mr.obama is on right track..everybody should support him.

 

[gambit]

If US does not allow build a mosque which accordig to the law is allowed..then history will not forgive america.this hypocrisy will become a international shame for them. Mr.obama is on right track..everybody should support him.

The laws? Good...Can you show US, among the nationally recognizable public figures who spoke out against this proposed triumphalist structure, who is or did invoked any law in said opposition? Obama? He supposedly clarified himself when he said that all he did was asserting the legalism of the construction, which no one denied, but then he will not comment on the WISDOM of the proposal. Wisdom is not law, did you know that? So in calling upon the law, Obama is no different than those who oppose this mosque. But in refusing to comment on whether it is wise or foolish to build, Obama is tacitly on the side of those who oppose the mosque.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

The laws? Good...Can you show US, among the nationally recognizable public figures who spoke out against this proposed triumphalist structure, who is or did invoked any law in said opposition? Obama? He supposedly clarified himself when he said that all he did was asserting the legalism of the construction, which no one denied, but then he will not comment on the WISDOM of the proposal. Wisdom is not law, did you know that? So in calling upon the law, Obama is no different than those who oppose this mosque. But in refusing to comment on whether it is wise or foolish to build, Obama is tacitly on the side of those who oppose the mosque.

obama did support the construction of mosque as a president.. and not commending on the wisdom of building the mosque there., because ultimatly he needs peoples support..the people are now lead by emotions rather than right or wrong. He cannot afford to go against people but at the same time he cannot do a hypocrisy sitting in the chair of US president. He know that he needs to retain the chair to support right calls including this and lot more in the future.It's just a tactical approach for a good cause.

 

[gambit]

obama did support the construction of mosque as a president..

Really...??? Here is what Obama said...

Obama's Mosque Comments Fuel Controversy | News | English

"Muslims have the right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," President Obama said. "And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan."

The 'right' is legalism. Nothing to do if it is wise or prudent or financially possible or structurally sound or anything but legalism. The opponents of this triumphalist structure...errr...I mean 'mosque'...never said anything about the legal right to build. Those who opposed admitted that it is legal to build. But is it right or wise to do so? You have the legal right to burn an American flag and chant 'Death to America' on your front lawn. But is it right or wise to do so?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Really...??? Here is what Obama said...

Obama's Mosque Comments Fuel Controversy | News | English

The 'right' is legalism. Nothing to do if it is wise or prudent or financially possible or structurally sound or anything but legalism. The opponents of this triumphalist structure...errr...I mean 'mosque'...never said anything about the legal right to build. Those who opposed admitted that it is legal to build. But is it right or wise to do so? You have the legal right to burn an American flag and chant 'Death to America' on your front lawn. But is it right or wise to do so?

So whats the problem if the law allows..
muslims as a whole is not terrorists..yes 50% of them can be religious hard liners but they are not terrorists.. Out of that 50 % may be below 5% of them are terrorists.What about the larger majority..?what if they are building the mosque to show their solidarity and support to america ? Can't this mosque be used as a sign and platform against terrorism..to teach real islam of peace..If it really is..
what if it was a christian motivated terrorist who attacked world trade center ? Won't you allow any churce near by.. ?
and do you really have right to burn US flag ?

 

[gambit]

So whats the problem if the law allows..

How would you like it if I build a museum commemorating the conquest and rule of India by the British? If you persists on focusing on the legal aspect of this then there is no hope for you.

 

[EjazR]

How would you like it if I build a museum commemorating the conquest and rule of India by the British? If you persists on focusing on the legal aspect of this then there is no hope for you.

Gambit, when will you stop making patenly wrong analogies of some sort of "Islamic conquest of America". As hasbeen said again and again, it is a community centre, open to ALL faiths, it will have a memorial to the victims of 9/11 of which 100 of them were muslims. American muslims who are part of the US armed forces fighting wars for you in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is defeat the Al Qaeda extremist group whose 90% of the victims are muslims themselves!!
What kind of a "conquerer" would kill themselves?


You analogy is so ridiculous that Idon't even know why I am trying to explain the fallacy behind this.
Wait, just tell me do you believe muslim worship monkey Gods?
If Yes, then I arrest my case.

Just remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not to their own facts. Use FACTS otherwise you will make wrong statements like the ones above.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

How would you like it if I build a museum commemorating the conquest and rule of India by the British? If you persists on focusing on the legal aspect of this then there is no hope for you.

*facedesk*

And from a very senior member too...

 

[gambit]

Gambit, when will you stop making patenly wrong analogies of some sort of "Islamic conquest of America".

Does not need to be a 'conquest'. The collapse of the World Trade Center towers was a battle victory. This black eye to the world's standing super power gave plenty of muslims the world over reason to dance in the streets. One take trophies whenever and wherever one could. For a society that is constrained by its own laws -- US -- this triumphalist structure will stand for a long time for the world's muslims to see.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

How would you like it if I build a museum commemorating the conquest and rule of India by the British? If you persists on focusing on the legal aspect of this then there is no hope for you.

As far as you don't violate any indian and international law it is ok with me..Yes there can be shouting from certain corners..but the law must prevail.
and we do have such memorials preserved every where in india one example is victoria memorial in calcutta.
BTW YOU DIDN'T ANSWER FEW OTHER QUESTIONS..

 

[gambit]

As far as you don't violate any indian and international law it is ok with me..Yes there can be shouting from certain corners..but the law must prevail.

You really do not 'get it', do you? Or are you that much of a robot? The reason why we have laws is to control emotions. But just because the laws controls our actions, laws do not negate our emotions. So for you to tell me that such a museum in India is 'ok' with you is to be intellectually dishonest. It would bother you to some degree. It would bother other Indians to lesser or greater degree. It would motivate some Indians to violate the laws and do something unpleasant.

The point here is not so much if the intention of this mosque 'insult' Americans, particularly New Yorkers, but that the majority of Americans are somewhat offended by a structure with a symbol from a religion that motivated an attack on US.

Mideast passions quiet over NY mosque showdown - Yahoo! News

Mideast commentators argue that many in the region view the clash as a wholly American spectacle — about political posturing and the lingering wounds of 9/11 — that distracts from genuine troubles such as Iran's growing clout or Israel's pressure on Gaza.

"The mosque is not an issue for Muslims and they don't care about it being built," wrote Saudi columnist Abdel Rahman Rashed in the pan-Arab Asharq al-Awsat newspaper.

"Some Muslims would even consider building a mosque there would be a permanent reminder of the acts of terrorists, who carried out their crime in the name of Islam," he added.

So even many muslims in the ME are nervous about this mosque. If muslims sentiments are oooohhhh-sooooo important to muslims whenever they are offended for any reason, even to the point of burning American flags and calling our 'death', why is American sentiments any less important when the sentiments are on American soil?

 

[GentlemanObserver]

If muslims sentiments are oooohhhh-sooooo important to muslims whenever they are offended for any reason, even to the point of burning American flags and calling our 'death', why is American sentiments any less important when the sentiments are on American soil?

Works both ways:

Armed militia to protect church during Quran-burning event – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Works both ways my friend... Tit for Tat.

 

[gambit]

Works both ways:

Armed militia to protect church during Quran-burning event – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Works both ways my friend... Tit for Tat.

Americans have put up for decades of what you are whining about recently.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

what you are whining about recently.

I rest my case.

 

[gambit]

I rest my case.

Is it true that some US muslims with ties to Al-Muhajiroun stepped on and ripped apart an American flag on downtown NYC and said: '...our loyalty does not belong to this flag, our loyalty belongs to Allah ... ."

They rested your case for you.