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Tensions rise as Russia says it's deploying anti-aircraft missiles to Syria

danger007

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Istanbul (CNN)Tensions in the Middle East ratcheted up dangerously Wednesday, a day after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, with the Turkish President accusing Russia of deceit and Russia announcing it would deploy anti-aircraft missiles to Syria.

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu said on his ministry's Twitter feed that the country would deploy S-400 defense missile systems to its Hmeymim airbase near Latakia, on Syria's Mediterranean coast.

The missiles have a range of 250 kilometers, according to the missilethreat.com website -- or 155 miles. The Turkish border is less than 30 miles away.

And Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told Russian TV on Wednesday that Russia has "serious doubts" that Turkey's downing of its warplane Tuesday was "an unpremeditated act."

"It looks very much like a planned provocation," Lavrov said.

For his part, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemned what he said was the violation of Turkish airspace by Russian warplanes, calling the incident an infringement of his country's sovereignty.

He charged Russia with propping up the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad -- a regime he said was inflicting terrorism on its own people. His remarks came a day after Russian President Vladimir Putin accused Turkey of being "the terrorists' accomplices" for shooting down a plane he claimed was on an anti-terrorism mission.

Erdogan disputed that claim in a speech Wednesday.

"There is no Daesh," in the area where the Russian planes were flying, Erdogan said, using another name for ISIS. "Do not deceive us! We know the locations of Daesh."




Turkey-Russia tension: Russia putting missiles in Syria - CNN.com
 
would deploy S-400 defense missile systems

People have been talking about WW3 and nukes, etc; a lot of scaremongering on the internet. After all the Chinese friends were saying, it comes down to S-400s. When I said, Rusia is not strong enough to take on Amrka, blind patriots came in their defence.

One thing for CERTAIN, Amrka and NATO are not coming to Tukys aid, no matter how much our countrymen delude themselves. Our Chinese friends said, correctly Turky is a Muslim country and no Christendom is going to spill blood for them.

The least I was expecting from Rusia was dog fights over Syria with Turky. Nothing more than that, no ground invasion, no nukes, just Su-35s vs F-16s. Deploying SAMs shows a certain lack of confidence in Rusia planes, but we'll wait and see! We know Turky will jam those SAMS and it may end up in a dog fight. Pakistan should wait placing the order until the outcome of the SU-35 against Turkys F-16s is assessed.
 
cool russia went full Retard too!

puting Anti Aircraft System to syria to start WW3.

jackson-im-just-here-to-read-the-comments-72.jpg
 
cool russia went full Retard too!

puting Anti Aircraft System to syria to start WW3.

jackson-im-just-here-to-read-the-comments-72.jpg
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
 
A reasonable defensive move

Defensive by whom? Both are very offensive in nature.

People have been talking about WW3 and nukes, etc; a lot of scaremongering on the internet. After all the Chinese friends were saying, it comes down to S-400s. When I said, Rusia is not strong enough to take on Amrka, blind patriots came in their defence.

One thing for CERTAIN, Amrka and NATO are not coming to Tukys aid, no matter how much our countrymen delude themselves. Our Chinese friends said, correctly Turky is a Muslim country and no Christendom is going to spill blood for them.

The least I was expecting from Rusia was dog fights over Syria with Turky. Nothing more than that, no ground invasion, no nukes, just Su-35s vs F-16s. Deploying SAMs shows a certain lack of confidence in Rusia planes, but we'll wait and see! We know Turky will jam those SAMS and it may end up in a dog fight. Pakistan should wait placing the order until the outcome of the SU-35 against Turkys F-16s is assessed.

You are seeing the real big picture!!! War by any country on any opponents need few basic requirements.

1) People's support - I really wonder who is playing into the hand of whom. Either way it's alarming. What Russia now doing is to build people's support as War means lots of losses to people's lifestyle and nation's economy. We all grew up learning WW1 and WW2 in few chapters in our schools. But the fact is that each episode had a very long buildup in between. Russians by now should be very pissed off and wanting revenge. But yet some if and buts must prevails. Slowly but steadily Russia will keep provoking Turkey to the extreme. What if Turkey shoots down Russian Helicopter or fighter or attack it's Naval fleets and what could be the Reaction from Russians?

2) Strategic planning and Time : Well with what we have known about Russia is very clear. The actions speaks lauder than noice. Russia by now already worked out and working out massive but gradual increase in retaliation. What Russia has in Syria will be a midget fleet when compared to the future deployment. Now Russia have its own licence to deploy long range Sam systems which is considered to be deadliest in the world? S400 . NATO s nightmare. Cost will be heavy even for USAF to defeat this unbeatable missile system as per Americans themselves. We can expect a befitting retaliation in future. Before it starts Russia Must prepare for worse in Syrian front. So is quite normal to expect more arms buildup just outside Turkey's doorsteps.

3) NOT to be an Aggressor : The last but not least. This this where I feel Turkey have terribly failed. Think about it.

belive Retaliation is on the way but when and where could be a suspense. It's Russias image is on the line now. Not just defending it's friend but defending it's position globally.

WW1 started due fight for crown in Austria and Hungary. Then no one would had predicted the outcome which led to a World War. This move by Turkey is well planned move to pull in Russia and China. As in just few years these both will outshine US and NATO power in many parts of the world and build up their weaponries in massive scale.
 
People have been talking about WW3 and nukes, etc; a lot of scaremongering on the internet. After all the Chinese friends were saying, it comes down to S-400s. When I said, Rusia is not strong enough to take on Amrka, blind patriots came in their defence.

One thing for CERTAIN, Amrka and NATO are not coming to Tukys aid, no matter how much our countrymen delude themselves. Our Chinese friends said, correctly Turky is a Muslim country and no Christendom is going to spill blood for them.

The least I was expecting from Rusia was dog fights over Syria with Turky. Nothing more than that, no ground invasion, no nukes, just Su-35s vs F-16s. Deploying SAMs shows a certain lack of confidence in Rusia planes, but we'll wait and see! We know Turky will jam those SAMS and it may end up in a dog fight. Pakistan should wait placing the order until the outcome of the SU-35 against Turkys F-16s is assessed.

Lol - S-400 is virtually unjammable due to constant frequency hopping and LPI radar.

These S-400s will scare the crap out of any Turkish pilot who gets anywhere near the Syrian border.

Also, expect 2-3 dozen SU-30/35 aircraft to soon be deployed in Syria as well.

@mb444 : Did I not say that this will happen? Turkey will be made to bow down before Russia
and shown that it cannot mess with the 2nd power on the planet and get away with it.
 
correctly Turky is a Muslim country and no Christendom is going to spill blood for them.

Wrong. This where Pakistani's with their unique way of looking only through the religious prism trip. Increasing Turkey is being accepted as European. Increasingly looked at as European people who just happen to be Muslim. Increasingly the secular nature of Turks has helped them to gain traction within the West in particular in USA.

Turkey is crucial and vital part of the NATO superstructure. Losing Turkey is like losing a wheel on a car. NATO falls apart. Thus NATO will support Turkey and NATO will already have made it known to Russians that they touck Turkey, they touch NATO. They will have made this known without any ambivalence. Any dounts on this why not get view of European or American members on this forum. Bottom line NATO will spill blod to protect Turkey.

However nothing is going to happen between Turkey and Russia for the precise reason that all sides know that NATO will get involved. However NATO will have told Turks not to push the matter any further and to exercise restraint.

Turkey will be made to bow down before Russia

NATO/Turkey/NATO/Turkey. No it won't. Turkey is enmeshed in the NATO structure. You want to bend Turkey well good luck because that equates to bending NATO.
 
NATO/Turkey/NATO/Turkey. No it won't. Turkey is enmeshed in the NATO structure. You want to bend Turkey well good luck because that equates to bending NATO.

You really think that white Christians are willing to die for Muslim Turks? They will simply sit on the sidelines and say that the NATO collective self-defense does not apply as Turkey attacked first. US/EU know that any shooting war with Russia could soon escalate leading to multimegaton hydrogen bombs landing across the US and EU cities. We are talking about obliteration here my friend and nothing less.

Watch and see how Russia makes the Turks sit and take a good beating for it's shooting down of it's jet.
The S-400 system is the most sophisticated SAM system in the world and can shoot down aircraft over any countries around Syria with ease. Also Russia is sending a cruiser specifically designed for air-defence into the waters around Syria. Russia will soon lock onto every Turkish jet anywhere near Syria and the Turkish pilots will be literally crapping their pants.

If the Turks are stupid enough to try to attack Russian Navy or bases in Syria, then boy the Russians will let lose with thousands of ballistic and cruise missiles laying waste to Turkey.

These Turks now look like they are as stupid as Arabs and will be made to pay the price - I honestly thought they had a few brain cells and alas I was mistaken.
 
Defensive by whom? Both are very offensive in nature.



You are seeing the real big picture!!! War by any country on any opponents need few basic requirements.

1) People's support - I really wonder who is playing into the hand of whom. Either way it's alarming. What Russia now doing is to build people's support as War means lots of losses to people's lifestyle and nation's economy. We all grew up learning WW1 and WW2 in few chapters in our schools. But the fact is that each episode had a very long buildup in between. Russians by now should be very pissed off and wanting revenge. But yet some if and buts must prevails. Slowly but steadily Russia will keep provoking Turkey to the extreme. What if Turkey shoots down Russian Helicopter or fighter or attack it's Naval fleets and what could be the Reaction from Russians?

2) Strategic planning and Time : Well with what we have known about Russia is very clear. The actions speaks lauder than noice. Russia by now already worked out and working out massive but gradual increase in retaliation. What Russia has in Syria will be a midget fleet when compared to the future deployment. Now Russia have its own licence to deploy long range Sam systems which is considered to be deadliest in the world? S400 . NATO s nightmare. Cost will be heavy even for USAF to defeat this unbeatable missile system as per Americans themselves. We can expect a befitting retaliation in future. Before it starts Russia Must prepare for worse in Syrian front. So is quite normal to expect more arms buildup just outside Turkey's doorsteps.

3) NOT to be an Aggressor : The last but not least. This this where I feel Turkey have terribly failed. Think about it.

belive Retaliation is on the way but when and where could be a suspense. It's Russias image is on the line now. Not just defending it's friend but defending it's position globally.

WW1 started due fight for crown in Austria and Hungary. Then no one would had predicted the outcome which led to a World War. This move by Turkey is well planned move to pull in Russia and China. As in just few years these both will outshine US and NATO power in many parts of the world and build up their weaponries in massive scale.

Interesting analysis, however what you are talking about is all out war. I'm saying this will not take place because Rusia knows it has a lot to lose. The country can barely function under sanctions, and is trying hard to make up the loss in trade. You sound like an intelligent person, are you really going to tell me shooting down of a Rusia plane wasn't thought out by Turkey? Has Amrka not constantly said this kind of thing might happen. Rusia is being drawn in as the Christendom of the West failed to draw them in Ukraine.

The ball is in the Rusia court and we'll see how they gain back their pride. Turky is not going to attack Rusia ships, I can't see that happening. I agree with your last point, it can escalate into a WW, it only takes one wrong move, however whatever will be, will be!

Wrong. This where Pakistani's with their unique way of looking only through the religious prism trip. Increasing Turkey is being accepted as European. Increasingly looked at as European people who just happen to be Muslim. Increasingly the secular nature of Turks has helped them to gain traction within the West in particular in USA.

Turkey is crucial and vital part of the NATO superstructure. Losing Turkey is like losing a wheel on a car. NATO falls apart. Thus NATO will support Turkey and NATO will already have made it known to Russians that they touck Turkey, they touch NATO. They will have made this known without any ambivalence. Any dounts on this why not get view of European or American members on this forum. Bottom line NATO will spill blod to protect Turkey.

However nothing is going to happen between Turkey and Russia for the precise reason that all sides know that NATO will get involved. However NATO will have told Turks not to push the matter any further and to exercise restraint.

Bhai out of the secularists i respect you the most as you are just. With respect to your analysis, you are in Christendom so you're in a better position to gauge the mood of the people, but I can't help asking you, if Christendom has become more tolerant of Muslims then why hasn't it allowed Turky to join the E.U? Every time it tried to join, it was one reason or another, human rights, Economy (LOL, as if Romania, Bulgaria are richer), Cyprus and it also requires unanimous vote to gain entry and Greece blocks it, Germany and France. The German leader of the GDP said, ''Turky is too Muslim''. If you google it you'll find the name of the fat man who said it. I don't remember his name.

So..religion does come into it. Nato kept them, (as some Pakistani Amrkan brothers used to say) keep your friends close, but your enemy closer. Interesting saying!

Lol - S-400 is virtually unjammable due to constant frequency hopping and LPI radar.

Yes, I'm sure it is. Are you their salesman? Amrika said, F117 stealth fighter couldn't be tracked and the Serbs shot it down. Every man-made thing is fallible and counter measures will be already in place for the S-400. This shooting down of the Rusa junck was not an accident. I've already answered this in my first post.

As for the S400, in its time SA-7s used to be top of the range and the Zionist F4s were shot out the sky. In Yom-Kippur things changed, counter measures, wild-weasel operation didn't give the Syrians a chance to breath. You have to understand, Rusia is no where near technological advance in Electronics as Amrka.

Also, expect 2-3 dozen SU-30/35 aircraft to soon be deployed in Syria as well.

Like I said in my post, I would expect dog fights in the skies but nothing more. If you have never met Turky people, then I'll tell you they're not the type who shy away from a fight. Bowing down is something others do, not them. They're very prideful people. I had the pleasure of knowing such brothers, very loyal and wonderful. I also had the pleasure of knowing brothers from Rusia and they were very prideful and not shying away from a fight, they were also very formidable brothers.

So brother, don't think Turky shooting down this plane was an accident, it was planned out and lets see what happens next.
 
Bhai out of the secularists i respect you the most as you are just.

I also hold you in outmost respect. I think I have said that before. You are true to your beliefs. Even if I agree to disagree I do appreciate your views.

.religion does come in.

Yes it does but slowly there is change. Let me explain it this way. Long time ago in Europe Catholics and Protestants would kill each other. Wars were fought. Slowly change came about till both groups shared almost everything so were 95% same. Today Protestants go to Anglican Church and Catholics to Catholic Church other than that there is no differance and both groups have accepted each other in the wider Western civilization.

Then the Jews were picked and reviled. Eventually and in particular post war Jews have also become accepted and now ( after killimng 6 million of them ) they talk about something called Judo-Christian civilization underpinning the West.

Now the next group the Turks are slowly being modulated. Soon enough they will be 95% same but have differant names and go to Mosque on friday. Go to Bosnia Muslims and you will see what I mean. They are Muslims but the defining thing about them is they are Europeans.

UK would accept Turkey no problem. Ditto Ireland, Sweden, Norway. Yes the Germans and french are ambilvalent. However slowly change is taking place. One of the fear they had was Turkey is a large country. They were worried millions of Turks would flood into EU. However Turkey has seen economic miracle in the last decade and it is not too long before there will be no push for Turks to migrate. Signs of change are.

Merkel, in bind on migrants, ready to back faster Turkish EU bid| Reuters

And most crucially read this. Turks will be allowed to enter European Union WITHOUT visa.

"If the process goes smoothly after the deal is signed, Turkish citizens will be able to enter Europe without a visa in three years’ time. Turkey had been harshly criticizing the EU for not allowing visa-free travel rights to Turkish citizens.

Apart from its direct effects on Turkish citizens’ visa-free travel to the EU countries, the deal is also considered to have a positive influence on the accession process of Turkey. In a very first sign, Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who hasn’t attended any EU meetings for three years, is expected to visit Brussels in January, three years after his last visit to EU’s capital

Turkey and EU agree to sign historic visa deal - EUROPE

This effectively is half way inside EU because being able to drive into EU like any other EU citizen is the most defining aspect of EU. What is left? Down the road when people have got used to this full membership.
 
I also hold you in outmost respect. I think I have said that before. You are true to your beliefs. Even if I agree to disagree I do appreciate your views.



Yes it does but slowly there is change. Let me explain it this way. Long time ago in Europe Catholics and Protestants would kill each other. Wars were fought. Slowly change came about till both groups shared almost everything so were 95% same. Today Protestants go to Anglican Church and Catholics to Catholic Church other than that there is differance and both groups have accepted each other in the wider Western civilization.

Then the Jews were picked and reviled. Eventually and in particular post war Jews have also become accepted and now ( after killimng 6 million of them ) they talk about something called Judo-Christian civilization underpinning the West.

Now the next group the Turks are slowly being modulated. Soon enough they will be 95% same but have differant names and go to Mosque on friday. Go to Bosnia Muslims and you will see what I mean. They are Muslims but the defining thing about them is they are Europeans.

UK would accept Turkey no problem. Ditto Ireland, Sweden, Norway. Yes the Germans and french are ambilvalent. However slowly change is taking place. One of the fear they had was Turkey is a large country. They were worried millions of Turks would flood into EU. However Turkey has seen economic miracle in the last decade and it is not too long before there will be no push for Turks to migrate. Signs of change are.

Merkel, in bind on migrants, ready to back faster Turkish EU bid| Reuters

And most crucially read this. Turks will be allowed to enter European Union WITHOUT visa.

"If the process goes smoothly after the deal is signed, Turkish citizens will be able to enter Europe without a visa in three years’ time. Turkey had been harshly criticizing the EU for not allowing visa-free travel rights to Turkish citizens.

Apart from its direct effects on Turkish citizens’ visa-free travel to the EU countries, the deal is also considered to have a positive influence on the accession process of Turkey. In a very first sign, Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who hasn’t attended any EU meetings for three years, is expected to visit Brussels in January, three years after his last visit to EU’s capital

Turkey and EU agree to sign historic visa deal - EUROPE

This effectively is half way inside EU because being able to drive into EU like any other EU citizen is the most defining aspect of EU. What is left? Down the road when people have got used to this full membership.

You are correct that we do look things through the ''prism'' of religion, however if what you say comes to pass then I'm afraid to say Islamic eschatology on Constantinople falling will not be too far in the distance. If 'Rum' is Rusia as some claim it is then...(you can connect the dots). The only thing is, Rusia will not be doing this on its own...they will have help from... I will stop their as not to offend my Turky brothers who I love and respect dearly.

You should run for Pakistan elections and I know you'll be more competent and just than the corrupt sayyasdan and ginerals.
 
Making Russia your enemy is a big mistake.

China is a soft touch, we are too concerned over internal issues to mess about with the outside world. But Russia, they won't stop until they break the Kurds away from Turkey, with basically unlimited supplies of weaponry.
 

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