South Koreas offer Egypt the FA-50 Fighter Eagle, with ToT

[MH.Yang]

If the order like 100 or something similar, that kind of offer is pretty reasonable for countries who has established their aerospace sector, minimum has done manufacturing under license in the past.

Indonesian N219 is also open for talk of production in other country if the order is 100 something. But for sure this will not be 100 % manufacturing, more like similar like C 295 order by Indian which is basically only cover assembling, that is the profit by the Airbus by selling fuselage parts for them. 30 of them will be 100 % made in Europe as well. We are talking business here

T50 Golden Eagle is not cheap if we compare to Chinese similar plane offering

In 2001, the price of K9 sold by South Korea to Turkey was US $3.2 million, with TOT.
In 2016, South Korea sold K9 to Finland at a price of US $3.5 million, with TOT.
Isn't the price cheap?
At that time, the price of PLZ-45 provided by China to Turkey and Finland was US $6.9 million and US $8.2 million, without TOT.

In the competition between PLZ-45 and K9, PLZ-45 won the orders of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and K9 won the orders of Turkey, Finland, Egypt and Poland.

Although there is a performance gap between K9 and PLZ-45. But K9's price is too cheap, and TOT is also provided. Even Caesar of France needs $5 million.

To be honest, K9 is a cost-effective option for countries with insufficient budgets and not afraid of US sanctions.


The Korean people sell FA50 in the same way.

 

[khansaheeb]

We don't know till we negotiated with PAK/China for Thunder and India with Tejas and SK with FA/T-50 and Italy with Aermacchi M-346. So maybe the decision in the upcoming months.

JF17 Block 3 is the best value multirole plane out of the lot, Egypt can't go wrong with the plane. Would be interesting to see which plane Egypt chooses and the strategic value it brings.

 

[Hydration]

I remember the Helwan HA-300 fighter.

Helwan HA-300 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That program got stalled because the platform developed by Mr. Messerschmitt and Kurt Tank was too complicated (two engines) and Egypt at the time did not have the requisite technical expertise in Egypt in the number it needed to continue testing and production. The financial support from Egyptian Govt. dwindled and eventually the Russians convinced Egypt to become a Soviet client state for airplanes.

Not saying that this is the 1950's - but there are lessons in that story for this new program (are all the ducks/prerequisites lined up in a row?).

Why didnt you mention 1967? Or mossad assasinations? Or is this not mentioned in wikipedia? All ballistic missile programs and ha300 was canclled after 1967 development wasnt stalled before hand after the German scintists left. There is no 1967 in 2022

 

[Dai Toruko]

Everyone have to start somewhere.

 

[Ghostkiller]

Everyone have to start somewhere.

True

 

[Gripen9]

Does KAI have US approval? Without that, nothing is going to happen.

 

[Bilal9]

Why didnt you mention 1967? Or mossad assasinations? Or is this not mentioned in wikipedia? All ballistic missile programs and ha300 was canclled after 1967 development wasnt stalled before hand after the German scintists left. There is no 1967 in 2022

No need to get emotional. I was not aware of the whole Helwan picture in 1967. I was aware of the Helwan project even before Wikipedia appeared on the scene. I have the highest of respect for Egyptians to take on a project of this magnitude when other supposedly advanced countries were not even on the scene.

Since I am not aware - and you MAY be, why don't you apprise us on how Egypt is tackling the prerequisites such as local engineering talent supply/training and budget issues. This is relevant to the discussion in this thread.

New aircraft development or even ToT intake is not easy, and some of us in other D-8 countries can take lessons from how Egypt is handling these needs vis-à-vis Turkey and Indonesia for example, who may be farther along.

 

[Bilal9]

In 2001, the price of K9 sold by South Korea to Turkey was US $3.2 million, with TOT.
In 2016, South Korea sold K9 to Finland at a price of US $3.5 million, with TOT.
Isn't the price cheap?
At that time, the price of PLZ-45 provided by China to Turkey and Finland was US $6.9 million and US $8.2 million, without TOT.

In the competition between PLZ-45 and K9, PLZ-45 won the orders of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and K9 won the orders of Turkey, Finland, Egypt and Poland.

Although there is a performance gap between K9 and PLZ-45. But K9's price is too cheap, and TOT is also provided. Even Caesar of France needs $5 million.

To be honest, K9 is a cost-effective option for countries with insufficient budgets and not afraid of US sanctions.


The Korean people sell FA50 in the same way.

I think you describe a country like ours where for example, developing aircraft is a far removed priority.

Trainer aircraft like the Hongdu CJ-7 or KAI KT-1 Woongbi suits us perfectly for ToT and larger needs for ab-initio training.

Baby steps.

CJ-7

Hongdu Yakovlev CJ-7 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

KT-1

KAI KT-1 Woongbi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The SC]

No need to get emotional. I was not aware of the whole Helwan picture in 1967. I was aware of the Helwan project even before Wikipedia appeared on the scene. I have the highest of respect for Egyptians to take on a project of this magnitude when other supposedly advanced countries were not even on the scene.

Since I am not aware - and you MAY be, why don't you apprise us on how Egypt is tackling the prerequisites such as local engineering talent supply/training and budget issues. This is relevant to the discussion in this thread.

New aircraft development or even ToT intake is not easy, and some of us in other D-8 countries can take lessons from how Egypt is handling these needs vis-à-vis Turkey and Indonesia for example, who may be farther along.

Well..without all those prerequisites.. do you really think Egypt would have asked for manufacturing an advanced trainer / light fighter.. with its own specs..???

 

[Bilal9]

Well..without all those prerequisites.. do you really think Egypt would have asked for manufacturing an advanced trainer / light fighter.. with its own specs..???

Well a lot of assumptions get proven wrong, that is why I asked Brother @Hydration for details.

 

[Hydration]

No need to get emotional. I was not aware of the whole Helwan picture in 1967. I was aware of the Helwan project even before Wikipedia appeared on the scene. I have the highest of respect for Egyptians to take on a project of this magnitude when other supposedly advanced countries were not even on the scene.

Since I am not aware - and you MAY be, why don't you apprise us on how Egypt is tackling the prerequisites such as local engineering talent supply/training and budget issues. This is relevant to the discussion in this thread.

New aircraft development or even ToT intake is not easy, and some of us in other D-8 countries can take lessons from how Egypt is handling these needs vis-à-vis Turkey and Indonesia for example, who may be farther along.

There is zero information about the strategy on my hand
but so far it is teaching Egyptian scintists abroad in countries like belarus and SK but these are the countries announced
Belgium is also in it with little to no info which remarks on a huge transfer of tech same with Germany especially after the russo ukraine war
Besides ToT the crown jewel of it will be the radar and avionics it will be an upgrade from the K8E

So far the main reason why the HA-300 didnt enter production was because of Israel and USSR and 1967 led to a money shift from development projects to buying brand new soviet weapons
If there is a lesson to be learnt here is to not put all of your eggs in one basket

 

[dani191]

Yes it is the least in this ToT.. and SK has developed now with French Thales an AESA radar of its own.. far from the Usraeli Elta one.. with a much longer range.. what do you want more for integration of any other BVR missiles.. I'm not talking about the AIM-120 here but other alternatives.. like the Chinese PL-15 and the PL-XX.. or the Russian R-37M (The R-37M is the world’s fastest known air to air missile with a Mach 6 speed, carries a very large 60kg warhead, and can engage targets up to 400km away. The missile is maneuverable enough to be able to neutralise fighter sized aircraft, but is also highly potent against support aircraft such as tankers.).. there is a;so the K-77M.. with a respectable 200km range and is one of the few to use an AESA radar for guidance.. or even the Denel Dynamics Marlin missile with a 100 km range.. not to forget the French MICA BVR, Its lightweight and compact dimensions allow the integration of up to six missiles on medium to lightweight fighters..

whats the name of the radar develops with thales?

 

[The SC]

There is zero information about the strategy on my hand
but so far it is teaching Egyptian scintists abroad in countries like belarus and SK but these are the countries announced
Belgium is also in it with little to no info which remarks on a huge transfer of tech same with Germany especially after the russo ukraine war
Besides ToT the crown jewel of it will be the radar and avionics it will be an upgrade from the K8E

So far the main reason why the HA-300 didnt enter production was because of Israel and USSR and 1967 led to a money shift from development projects to buying brand new soviet weapons
If there is a lesson to be learnt here is to not put all of your eggs in one basket

Well.. the Mig-21 costed about half the price of the Helwan-300.. it was practical to go for it.. mostly that Egypt was almost at war at that time.. which proved to be true,, hence the emergency..

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

There was also plans to produce 90 individual planes of the ha 300 varient, from what I read it can act as a good intercepter based on prototype testing. Idk about whether it could be superior to the mig 21 in terms of a comitted fightercraft though. Also don't know what munitions the 300 carried, since it could've either been superior or inferior to soviet ones used on the migs that time.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

However, the engine is American and there is too much string attached with America. I don't think Egypt will go for it.