Review EDGE Al Tariq precision guided munition Halcon HAS-250 anti-ship misile P2 P3 guided munition

[Zarvan]

Under the umbrella of EDGE, a cluster of defense and security companies from the United Arab Emirates, AL TARIQ has developed AL TARIQ guidance kit on a newly developed Penetration Warhead, HALCON has developed first local-made anti-ship cruise missile named HAS-250 (HALCON Anti-Ship 250) as well as a full range of precision guided munition P32 Desert Sting and P3 Thunder.

 

[Titanium100]

@Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

Good to hear, hope Halcon unveils more missiles in November at the Dubai Airshow.

 

[Titanium100]

Good to hear, hope Halcon unveils more missiles in November at the Dubai Airshow.

Do you think they will reveal more than last expo but aside from that excited for this november can come sooner. I may even attend this show as I will be in Doha around november perhaps I am considering to attend this show Dubai is just one hour flight from Doha

 

[Philip the Arab]

Do you think they will reveal more than last expo but aside from that excited for this november can come sooner. I may even attend this show as I will be in Doha around november perhaps I am considering to attend this show Dubai is just one hour flight from Doha

I think they will unveil more missile projects surely, maybe 3-4 they have hired many more engineers and have expanded greatly since the IDEX expo.

 

[Philip the Arab]

@The SC @Gomig-21 @Titanium100



Halcon should really develop an air launched decoy in case they need to perform SEAD/DEAD that can be launched from F-16s and Mirages that is similar to the ADM-160.

Basically you drop the decoys and the enemy sees each decoy as a fighter therefore persuading them to turn on their radars which than allows for targeting of radars with anti radiation missiles.

It will also help reduce casualties during strike missions against targets defended by significant SAM assets although casualties are generally inevitable.

Halcon even developed the turbojet required for a decoy of this class to reach very far ranges.

The American ADM-160 decoy pictured below

 

[Gomig-21]

@The SC @Gomig-21 @Titanium100



Halcon should really develop an air launched decoy in case they need to perform SEAD/DEAD that can be launched from F-16s and Mirages that is similar to the ADM-160.

Basically you drop the decoys and the enemy sees each decoy as a fighter therefore persuading them to turn on their radars which than allows for targeting of radars with anti radiation missiles.

It will also help reduce casualties during strike missions against targets defended by significant SAM assets although casualties are generally inevitable.

Halcon even developed the turbojet required for a decoy of this class to reach very far ranges.

The American ADM-160 decoy pictured below

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Billip, I think Halcon should hire you immediately if not, sooner! Your ideas are tremendous and just the way you think about not just what they should put together, you also think of the consequences and how to remedy them which is a great attribute.

When you tagged me and I read that, I thought that was such a great idea I honestly didn't know what else to say lol. You even anticipated reducing collateral damage which is great.

The only problem is, and I don't know too much about the ADM-160 to be perfectly honest with you since most of my knowledge is directed more so at A2A combat which is my primary interest and then A2G comes secondary but I'm a bit behind with a lot of the new inventions and technology because there is SO MUCH that comes out every single year and the most that I do concentrate on is Russian radars and between their mobile and stationary ones since Egypt is investing a TON of moolalala on Russian radars which frankly IMO are the BEST in the world.

So when it comes to creating elements that can deceive these amazing radars, I think it is a super difficult task. For one, this ADM-160 which is the size of a cruise missile has to produce the radar signature the size of an aircraft? Or just that of a cruise missile to fool the radar to turn on and expose itself? Plus there are a few features that guard against SEAD/DEAD as the more advanced a country has set up its air defense system, the much more difficult it will be to fool them.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@The SC @Gomig-21 @Titanium100



Halcon should really develop an air launched decoy in case they need to perform SEAD/DEAD that can be launched from F-16s and Mirages that is similar to the ADM-160.

Basically you drop the decoys and the enemy sees each decoy as a fighter therefore persuading them to turn on their radars which than allows for targeting of radars with anti radiation missiles.

It will also help reduce casualties during strike missions against targets defended by significant SAM assets although casualties are generally inevitable.

Halcon even developed the turbojet required for a decoy of this class to reach very far ranges.

The American ADM-160 decoy pictured below

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View attachment 773850

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@JamD This could be a neat idea for AvRID or NESCOM to try out using their respective programs (e.g., AvRID enlarging the target drone into a small air-launched decoy, or NESCOM scaling the Ra'ad down).

 

[Philip the Arab]

Billip, I think Halcon should hire you immediately if not, sooner! Your ideas are tremendous and just the way you think about not just what they should put together, you also think of the consequences and how to remedy them which is a great attribute.

Haha, I’m merely a defense enthusiast and they have many engineers working on different concept ideas that would surprise me even.

I do want to get into an engineering field, so I may apply at Halcon if possible as they have hired Arab-Americans recently.

When you tagged me and I read that, I thought that was such a great idea I honestly didn't know what else to say lol. You even anticipated reducing collateral damage which is great.

Strike missions are notoriously difficult to pull off against a nation with an modern, integrated air defense even NATO lost a good amount of aircraft and they were much stronger than Iraq in the the Gulf War.

My idea should be able to help lighten losses a good bit ideally.

So when it comes to creating elements that can deceive these amazing radars, I think it is a super difficult task. For one, this ADM-160 which is the size of a cruise missile has to produce the radar signature the size of an aircraft? Or just that of a cruise missile to fool the radar to turn on and expose itself? Plus there are a few features that guard against SEAD/DEAD as the more advanced a country has set up its air defense system, the much more difficult it will be to fool them.

The ADM-160 weighs about 160kg if I remember correctly which is very light and sub powered by a 0.78kn turbojet which is very similar to what Halcon produces albeit a bit stronger. There are ways of increasing the RCS of the drone to be almost copies of fighter aircraft, or tankers, or whatever you really want. Luneberg lenses drastically increase the radar cross section on aircraft such as the F-22 for peacetime missions.

With two F-16s for example, you may be able to fool an enemy’s air defense into thinking there are 5 or 6 other F-16s with such decoys thereby getting the enemy’s to turn on radars and SAMs to engage the decoys thinking they are F-16s.

At that point SEAD/DEAD can be used with AGM-88 HARMs or even glide standoff weapons.

They is also an electronic jamming decoy of the ADM-160 but that is a different topic altogether.

 

[JamD]

@JamD This could be a neat idea for AvRID or NESCOM to try out using their respective programs (e.g., AvRID enlarging the target drone into a small air-launched decoy, or NESCOM scaling the Ra'ad down).

Yes it is a neat idea. However, I wonder if it fits into the PAF doctrine. In particular, I am wondering whether we have jets that can spare hardpoints for these kinds of payloads. Asked another way, can PAF afford to launch a JF17 with local MALDs - that is, is it enough bang for the buck or is that JF17 better used to carry SD-10s/PL-15s/MAR1s? I don't know the answer to that but I think that answer will inform whether such a program should exist or not.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Sometimes in order to use SEAD missiles you need decoys to get the radars and SAMs to turn on first before engaging them. During the Gulf War the Iraqis didnt turn on their radars because of the ARM threat where ADM-141s were used effectively.

Imagine a few JF-17s dropping 10 or so of these towards a Indian air defense system. They would shit their pants and start engaging the decoys while allowing other PAF assets to target the radars.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yes it is a neat idea. However, I wonder if it fits into the PAF doctrine. In particular, I am wondering whether we have jets that can spare hardpoints for these kinds of payloads. Asked another way, can PAF afford to launch a JF17 with local MALDs - that is, is it enough bang for the buck or is that JF17 better used to carry SD-10s/PL-15s/MAR1s? I don't know the answer to that but I think that answer will inform whether such a program should exist or not.

Maybe it's a job for the F-7P drone?

 

[Philip the Arab]

Maybe it's a job for the F-7P drone?

What about ground launched MALDs?

 

[JamD]

Maybe it's a job for the F-7P drone?

Probably an even more expensive proposition than having a JF17 carry it.

 

[Titanium100]

I think they will unveil more missile projects surely, maybe 3-4 they have hired many more engineers and have expanded greatly since the IDEX expo.

I think there will be many surprises but I am mostly focussed on the anti-drone departments seems like they have been doing some ground breaking work