Punjabi and Urdu - Are they two different languages?

[Rusty]

Kar & Rahey !

For example - Faujihistorian kal uss blondie ke saaath khareii hoveii kiyaa kar rahey theiii, lagta hai Bhabi ko batana hi paraiii gaaa !



Adab, kaiseii mizaj hain huzoor keiii ?

Okay... my urdu is pretty weak as well
Can you say that again in English?

 

[Icewolf]

Urdu is actually a mixture of Punjabi and other languages. That's why you may see some similar words, but I can understand Punjabi at all.

 

[Armstrong]

Okay... my urdu is pretty weak as well
Can you say that again in English?

I said 'Hello, how do you do ?' in Literary Urdu !

 

[notsuperstitious]

Urdu and Hindi both direct descendents of Khariboli. This is why if you ignore the vocab, hindi and urdu grammar is the same.

All Indian origin languages share many commonalities, heck there are many common words in punjabi and marathi too. That is expected in languages of same language famility that developed over the last 1000 years. To say Urdu is a dialect of Punjabi though would go against all available evidence - historical and linguistic.

Infact as with most pakistani ''academic discussions'', that sounds purely political in reality.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Urdu and Hindi both direct descendents of Khariboli. This is why if you ignore the vocab, hindi and urdu grammar is the same.

All Indian origin languages share many commonalities, ...

Not true.

Within Pakistan, Punjabi, Pashto, Baluchi, and Sindhi are totally different and unique languages.

Same can be said for Indian languages like Talegu vs. Punjabi, vs. Bengali. Again unique languages. My talegu friends cannot understand Hindi.

... To say Urdu is a dialect of Punjabi though would go against all available evidence - historical and linguistic.

I have listed poets and prose as one way to compare languages and regions.

What other evidence - historical and linguistic you want to present?


Say something Fateh, say something in the name of Bhagwan, say something.


peace

 

[Sugarcane]

I used to say and think the same thing. This is how I heard and I was told.

Then I asked myself a simple question.

If two languages are almost interchangeable in script and in grammar. Then which language is older and which is newer.

It turns out that Punjabi is at least 600 years older than Urdu.

So Urdu must be a dialect or at most a derivative of the Punjabi (in my unemotional, non-prejudiced analysis).






Language of subcontinent are not similar. Heck within Pakistan, Punjabi vs. Pashtu vs. Sindhi vs. Balochi are a clear proof that subcontinent is blessed with unique and totally different languages.

However the difference in Punjabi and Urdu is tiny.


Peace

I beg to differ sir - Punjabi is not dialect of Urdu and Punjabi script we used in Pakistan "Shah-Mukhi" is not the original script. Urdu of Punjab is Punjabised Urdu and Punjabi spoken in big cities of Punjab has lot of Urdu words that's why you can't feel more difference. It also have to do with the fact that Punjab being big province dominate the media (you can call it cultural invasion as many racist say here) but being less conservative it will continue to dominate. Even it is dominating Bollywood where more are more Punjabi words are being include and sometime complete song.

@Topic - Although i am hardcore Punjabi but IMHO - we should change education language to English with Urdu and one Local language as mandatory subject.

 

[Rusty]

I said 'Hello, how do you do ?' in Literary Urdu !

at the very least my urdu is better than Billiwal Zardari

 

[Peregrine]

I have some Sindhi relatives and even thou they cant speak punjabi, they can understand it quite well. In Sindhi they say..Cha haal aye....In punjabi..ke haal aye and in Urdu...kia haal hay.They all have their commonalities.......just like many European languages....So to say they all are a dialect of one language...would be utterly wrong.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Urdu is more similar to Hindi and may be even Farsi than it will ever be to Punjabi.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I beg to differ sir - Punjabi is not dialect of Urdu and Punjabi script we used in Pakistan "Shah-Mukhi" is not the original script.



..

Agreed.

Punjabi is not dialect of Urdu

But Urdu is a lucknavi dialect of Punjabi

Guru-Mukhi script as it says was introduced Sikhs in 15th century or later.

Before Sikhism, Punjabi poets like Farid, (12th century) etc. were using script Khate-Nastaleeq (the same as persian).


Thank you.

Urdu is more similar to Hindi and may be even Farsi than it will ever be to Punjabi.

Based on what reasoning my lord? What pearls of wisdom Sire?

Enlighten us.

Thank you

 

[bronxbull]

I only find Punjabi of both Pak & India heavily mixed with Urdu.

Basically the languages developed organically,so we have to accept it and move on.

India has language based states rather than Traditional provinces but even then,people speak the way they want to.

I can say that it is universally acknowledged that Urdu/English for Pak,Hindi/English for India.

Even in India punjabi is a language that is understood from Delhi to Jammu across Haryana/Punjab/Himachal.

Haryana also has its second language as punjabi and they are all the same people.

Himachal even more so.

I can see that Languages like Seraiki,Hindkowan act as buffers between Punjabi-Sindhi and Punjabi-Pashto.

so,let it develop organically,instead of saying this is exactly this and that is exactly that.


Nonetheless,Urdu & Hindi ll be spoken all across both countries in cousre of time,if not today.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Not true.

Within Pakistan, Punjabi, Pashto, Baluchi, and Sindhi are totally different and unique languages.

Same can be said for Indian languages like Talegu vs. Punjabi, vs. Bengali. Again unique languages. My talegu friends cannot understand Hindi.

Most Hindi - Urdu speakers from India DO NOT understand Punjabi. My Sikh friends from Thailand who speak Punjabi do not get a word of Hindi - Urdu.

You are using Pakistan's universal adoption of Urdu to draw colclusions about the past.

All these Indian languages are indeed sisters, either in their present form (hindi - urdu) or in an earlier form (khariboli, prakrit etc). And thats that.

BTW Punjabi and Sindhi belong to the same language groups.

 

[livingdead]

@Fateh : Except Tamil / Telugu / Malayalam / Kannada which are not from 'Indo-european language' family.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Agreed.

Punjabi is not dialect of Urdu

But Urdu is a lucknavi dialect of Punjabi

Guru-Mukhi script as it says was introduced Sikhs in 15th century or later.

Before Sikhism, Punjabi poets like Farid, (12th century) etc. were using script Khate-Nastaleeq (the same as persian).


Thank you.




Based on what reasoning my lord? What pearls of wisdom Sire?

Enlighten us.

Thank you

I am a North Indian and come from Delhi. Near to the region where both hindi and urdu originated. Most North Indians speak a mix of Hindi and Urdu and we can barely differentiate between the two.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Urdu is a foreign language for you guys. It originated in U.P. You just adopted it .

 

[Ayush]

Damn you for making me write so much !

But I think I'll torture you still !

For example outside Lahore people would say - 'Tussan kii karan daii ohhh' when asking someone what are they doing ! But in Lahore it would most probably be 'Tussii kii kar raheii ohhh' ?

You see in the former there is a sharpness to it whereas in the latter we've incorporated 1-2 Urdu loan words !

Waiseee @LoveIcon ko Punjabi bilkul bhi nahin aaatiii !

yup,even i can understand most of refined punjabi...