Pakistan’s emphatic no to Afghanistan

[Bang Galore]

Btw does India give Pakistan transit to Bhutan, Nepal and Bangladesh ...

That was what was on offer during the last SAARC summit. Pakistan demurred and other countries decided to bypass Pakistan by creating BBIN.

 

[M.SAAD]

And the funny thing is that the other day Afghans were crying and protesting about the planned trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia via China.

Can't understand these people really.

Afghanis are pretty thankless people, I always had brotherly friendly views on them, until I had experience with some living in Pakistan and hating on Pakistan in open .

 

[pakistani342]

That was what was on offer during the last SAARC summit. Pakistan demurred and other countries decided to bypass Pakistan by creating BBIN.

I meant since the past 70 years -- if it is good today then it must have been good 70 years ago too ? no?

 

[slapshot]

And the funny thing is that the other day Afghans were crying and protesting about the planned trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia via China.

Can't understand these people really.

Stupid and weak GOVT being played by Banya what else. Now that Pakistan and China wants to help them they are trying to sideline with India

 

[WAJsal]

And the funny thing is that the other day Afghans were crying and protesting about the planned trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia via China.

Can't understand these people really.

We are already connected to Central Asia.

 

[coffee_cup]

So India too can get to central Asia through China....so what is the gibberish your defense analysts talk of Pakistan's geographic advantage.

Believe me, we'll encourage it and not protest against. Go for it.

Crying like a little girl on every development in the neighborhood is only the trade mark of "Dehati Aurat".

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Have the people here, raving about Pakistan blocking Indian trade to CAR heard of International North-South Transport Corridor?

Unlike the much vaunted CPEC, this is almost done and will not only connect the Indians to CAR but all the way to Russia.

 

[coffee_cup]

Afghanis are pretty thankless people, I always had brotherly friendly views on them, until I had experience with some living in Pakistan and hating on Pakistan in open .

Unfortunately I have had the same experience in foreign countries, met several Afghans who have lived both in Pakistan and Iran, on one hand they admit that they are treated very badly in Iran and are not allowed to leave special territories.

In Pakistan however they are roaming around everywhere they want to.

On the other hand they hate Pakistan and blame us for everything that we have nothing to do with.

These thankless people should be sent back as soon as possible. And if there are asylum seekers, they should be restricted to special areas just like it is done in Europe and elsewhere.

 

[Bang Galore]

I meant since the past 70 years -- if it is good today then it must have been good 70 years ago too ? no?

Relations haven't always worked on commercial logic, doesn't mean it has be that way for eternity. India gave Pakistan MFN status nearly 2 decades ago but Pakistan has yet to reciprocate even if it is bound by the rules of the WTO to do so.

Pakistan used SAARC's requirement of a unanimity to block deals, other countries finally tired of it. The same will happen with Afghanistan & transit to & from India. Eventually a way will be found around it even if more expensive. Once the investment in the alternate route is factored in & paid for, Pakistan loses its leverage forever. Whether it is oil & gas from central asia or Iran into India or trade to Afghanistan & CAR countries, Pakistan keeps making the wrong choices because the countries concerned will make alternate arrangements. Pakistan could have been centre of many projects but will likely find itself sidelined. Pakistan can always hope for the best from the proposed China corridor but saying no to money & trade with other countries is not a smart way of going about things.

 

[pakistani342]

Have the people here, raving about Pakistan blocking Indian trade to CAR heard of International North-South Transport Corridor?

Unlike the much vaunted CPEC, this is almost done and will not only connect the Indians to CAR but all the way to Russia.

My dear, if you heard Ambassador Katju the other day -- even he lamented that there is only one naval crane at Chabahar -- and in case you over looked it -- Bandar Abbas is not a deep sea port.

Also the Indian state apparatus is very good at talking -- yet they have a hard time competing even with their Pakistani counterparts -- China -- well is in a different league we must agree

Relations haven't always worked on commercial logic, doesn't mean it has be that way for eternity. India gave Pakistan MFN status nearly 2 decades ago but Pakistan has yet to reciprocate even if it is bound by the rules of the WTO to do so.

Very true -- however why do Indians not talk about the procedural hurdles there are to trade for Pakistani companies -- clearly they must know that. Simple intellectual dishonesty?

Further -- if I'm not mistaken -- Pakistan India were considered by GATT to be one economic entity -- meaning that they can offer each other preferential duties -- grandfathered even into the WTO if I understand it correctly -- but India has offered Pakistan the MFN but the duty structure is totally asymmetric -- how is it that not once have I heard an Indian commentator raise this issue. Clearly our Indian brother must know this.

Pakistan used SAARC's requirement of a unanimity to block deals, other countries finally tired of it. The same will happen with Afghanistan & transit to & from India. Eventually a way will be found around it even if more expensive. Once the investment in the alternate route is factored in & paid for, Pakistan loses its leverage forever. Whether it is oil & gas from central asia or Iran into India or trade to Afghanistan & CAR countries, Pakistan keeps making the wrong choices because the countries concerned will make alternate arrangements. Pakistan could have been centre of many projects but will likely find itself sidelined. Pakistan can always hope for the best from the proposed China corridor but saying no to money & trade with other countries is not a smart way of going about things.

Again Pakistan bad -- Pakistanis very bad -- now let us talk about all the other enlightened members of SAARC -- how is it that the regional hegimon India has not in 70 years granted Pakistan access to Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal. Not only that - it did not even make such an offing in the past decade when asking for access to Afghanistan.

So yes, hey us Pakistanis -- we're the scum of the earth -- but let us talk about all the Ganga may nahay hua folks.

 

[Bang Galore]

Very true -- however why do Indians not talk about the procedural hurdles there are to trade for Pakistani companies -- clearly they must know that. Simple intellectual dishonesty?

Further -- if I'm not mistaken -- Pakistan India were considered by GATT to be one economic entity -- meaning that they can offer each other preferential duties -- grandfathered even into the WTO if I understand it correctly -- but India has offered Pakistan the MFN but the duty structure is totally asymmetric -- how is it that not once have I heard an Indian commentator raise this issue. Clearly our Indian brother must know this.

Tariffs are the same for everyone, not just Pakistan. If Pakistan wants preferential access, it must offer something in return.

Again Pakistan bad -- Pakistanis very bad -- now let us talk about all the other enlightened members of SAARC -- how is it that the regional hegimon India has not in 70 years granted Pakistan access to Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal. Not only that - it did not even make such an offing in the past decade when asking for access to Afghanistan.

So yes, hey us Pakistanis -- we're the scum of the earth -- but let us talk about all the Ganga may nahay hua folks.

Pakistan refused all access to Afghanistan, how does it expect preferential access to Nepal, Bhutan & BD? Nor has it even given the basic courtesy of MFN even if the name was unpalatable. In any case, this discussion is about the present & the future, not about the past & whose mistakes counted more. India & other countries of SAARC minus Pakistan are willing to trade & build closer ties, Pakistan does not.

This is not about the "scum of the earth" or the "Ganga may nahaye hua folks", it is whether the countries of this region want to wallow in the past or try something different. As with all issues, whether bilateral with India or multilateral with Saaarc countries, Pakistan must bring something to the table, apart from its demands & objections.

 

[Spectre]

AP?
Dalai Lama? -- I hate to speculate but his holiness may be a very kind man but he's not really worth a lot of money.

Lol, Kindness has got nothing to do with it. China takes a lot of flak internationally on Tibet and how much ever they can deny and suppress the info through their state controlled media but there is a very real and potentially explosive Tibet uprising. The core issue at the heart of problem is Dalai Lama. His successor would be anointed by him not the Chinese puppet called Panchen Lama who has not credibility. Remove his holiness from the equation by sending him back to China and the whole problem goes away.

AP - Arunachal Pradesh which China claims at southern Tibet

Well the land route through India competes with the sea route Karachi <--> Chittagong -- but yes ... however I'd like to point out India has not made any such offer -- the chorus has been to grant India access to Afghanistan and CARs.

Similarly Pakistan can rely on Bangladesh to ask for access to Pakistan -- the Bengalis don't seem to be in any hurry.

India has made no offer because Pakistan has shown no interest.

That can happen even without Pakistan granting access to Afghanistan -- Pakistan already has MFN from India and Pakistan should reciprocate -- where does Afghanistan or CARs come into the picture.

Now if you want to talk Kashmir - Pak-Hindi Bhai Bhai.

Hate to tell you this everyone is money minded -- and yes Pak/India trade yes -- access to Afghanistan no -- simply there is no reason for Pakistan to grant that. Pakistan/India trade has its own impetus.



Oh bhai yes yes and yes -- but where does Afghanistan come into this?

MFN is a useless joke, has no real substance behind it. It basically is no negative discrimination. It doesn't mean India would actively encourage investments in Pakistan.

Why would India want to invest in Pakistan and offer its market to Pakistan at lower tariffs the norm (FTA) without getting something from Pakistan in return like access

Now if you want to do out of the box thinking on Kashmir - ball-e ball-e

What out of the box thinking? Give me feasible options

 

[pakistani342]

Tariffs are the same for everyone, not just Pakistan. If Pakistan wants preferential access, it must offer something in return.

Pakistan would be clearing the last hurdle in India's rise to great power status? To be fair India cannot rise as a great power without Pakistan's acquiesce. What more do you want? A friend Pakistan on your west --

Pakistan refused all access to Afghanistan, how does it expect preferential access to Nepal, Bhutan & BD? Nor has it even given the basic courtesy of MFN even if the name was unpalatable. In any case, this discussion is about the present & the future, not about the past & whose mistakes counted more? India & other countries of SAARC minus Pakistan are willing to trade & build closer ties, Pakistan does not.

The question was -- we did't see India say -- in return for Afghan access we will give you this -- it was this access is good for Pakistan, good for Afghanistan -- you will become a toll collector -- thank you very much -- no

This is not about the "scum of the earth" or the "Ganga may nahaye hua folks", it is whether the countries of this region want to wallow in the past or try something different. As with all issues, whether bilateral with India or multilateral with Saaarc countries, Pakistan must bring something to the table, apart from its demands & objections.

No the comment was sarcasm -- it had nothing to do wit wallowing in he past -- the point was -- let's be honest. True India has granted Pakistan an MFN but my expectation form Indian Intellectual (and pseudo Intellectuals) who be to beat their chests with Intellectual honesty -- When our Indian Friends cry fouls they should at least in fine print say: by they way there are numerous hurdles for Pakistanis to use that MFN -- that was the only point being made.

 

[Spectre]

AP?
Dalai Lama? -- I hate to speculate but his holiness may be a very kind man but he's not really worth a lot of money.

Lol, Kindness has got nothing to do with it. China takes a lot of flak internationally on Tibet and how much ever they can deny and suppress the info through their state controlled media but there is a very real and potentially explosive Tibet uprising. The core issue at the heart of problem is Dalai Lama. His successor would be anointed by him not the Chinese puppet called Panchen Lama who has not credibility. Remove his holiness from the equation by sending him back to China and the whole problem goes away.

AP - Arunachal Pradesh which China claims at southern Tibet

Well the land route through India competes with the sea route Karachi <--> Chittagong -- but yes ... however I'd like to point out India has not made any such offer -- the chorus has been to grant India access to Afghanistan and CARs.

Similarly Pakistan can rely on Bangladesh to ask for access to Pakistan -- the Bengalis don't seem to be in any hurry.

India has made no offer because Pakistan has shown no interest.

That can happen even without Pakistan granting access to Afghanistan -- Pakistan already has MFN from India and Pakistan should reciprocate -- where does Afghanistan or CARs come into the picture.

Now if you want to talk Kashmir - Pak-Hindi Bhai Bhai.

Hate to tell you this everyone is money minded -- and yes Pak/India trade yes -- access to Afghanistan no -- simply there is no reason for Pakistan to grant that. Pakistan/India trade has its own impetus.



Oh bhai yes yes and yes -- but where does Afghanistan come into this?

MFN is a useless joke, has no real substance behind it. It basically is no negative discrimination. It doesn't mean India would actively encourage investments in Pakistan or open its market completely to Pakistan goods

Why would India want to invest in Pakistan and offer its market to Pakistan at lower tariffs than the norm (FTA) without getting something from Pakistan in return like access

Now if you want to do out of the box thinking on Kashmir - ball-e ball-e

What out of the box thinking? Give me feasible options

E

Have the people here, raving about Pakistan blocking Indian trade to CAR heard of International North-South Transport Corridor?

Unlike the much vaunted CPEC, this is almost done and will not only connect the Indians to CAR but all the way to Russia.

Excellent reply but this has its own host of troubles but if Iran-US nuclear deal pans out then Balle-Balle

 

[pakistani342]

Lol, Kindness has got nothing to do with it. China takes a lot of flak internationally on Tibet and how much ever they can deny and suppress the info through their state controlled media but there is a very real and potentially explosive Tibet uprising. The core issue at the heart of problem is Dalai Lama. His successor would be anointed by him not the Chinese puppet called Panchen Lama who has not credibility. Remove his holiness from the equation by sending him back to China and the whole problem goes away.

Come seriously??

AP - Arunachal Pradesh which China claims at southern Tibet

India will give up Arunachal Pradesh -- sure I guess Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai -- keep his holiness

Kashmir pay be zara ghaur kar lain -- Pak Hindi Bhai Bhai -- Lal topi wala lay lain.

India has made no offer because Pakistan has shown no interest.

Yar this comment is disingenuous -- come on this not a school yard brawl

MFN is a useless joke, has no real substance behind it. It basically is no negative discrimination. It doesn't mean India would actively encourage investments in Pakistan.

Bhaijan that exactly what I'm saying -- we are in total agreement -- that when our Indian brothers (intellectual brothers not this the 56-inch ki chatti wala) cite the MFN they are being dishonest, lack of full disclosure -- the MFN is a joke in it's current form.

Why would India want to invest in Pakistan and offer its market to Pakistan at lower tariffs than the norm (FTA) without getting something from Pakistan in return like access

Bhaijan Pakistani companies want to invent in India as well -- as I said -- India cannot realize it's big power status without
normalizing it's relationship with Pakistan. As a huge economy the concession doesn't cost India much for the gains.

We'll even do a joint parade on Wagha on Aug 15th -- Khush?

What out of the box thinking? Give me feasible options

As one of the most decent Indian Prime ministers (not this thug that the Indian people have sadly elected) said: the sky is the limit -- Man Mohan Singh