Pakistan’s emphatic no to Afghanistan

[!eon]

Block Afghan transit trade from Karachi to Torkham and Chaman.

 

[pakistani342]

Then Pakistan will do through China, which is another route for us , look to answer your question, Pakistan and China are connected almost at the end where the Central Asian countries start, so although going through China would be a slightly longer route but definitely not by a mile . Also through Azad Kashmir Pakistan is connected to Tajikistan .



India is at a lower zone, connecting itself through China would be much much longer route than through Pakistan

the fundamentalist question is why would China give India access to CAR Natural resources -- Both China India need large amounts of natural resource to feed their growth engines. China has no benefit from such an arrangement.

 

[saurav]

If only diplomacy worked like Zero-sum game which many members here seem to believe.

OT : Good for us and probably another eye-opener for Ghani after parliament attack.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

the fundamentalist question is why would China give India access to CAR Natural resources -- Both China India need large amounts of natural resource to feed their growth engines. China has no benefit from such an arrangement.

Increasing India's dependency on China for energy plus tacit approval of Aksai Chin as Chinese territory. As any access from India to Central Asia through China passes through Aksai Chin

 

[WAJsal]

Then Pakistan will do through China, which is another route for us , look to answer your question, Pakistan and China are connected almost at the end where the Central Asian countries start, so although going through China would be a slightly longer route but definitely not by a mile

We already have access to Central Asia through China.

Also through Azad Kashmir Pakistan is connected to Tajikistan .

How is that? Azad Kashmir doesn't share border with Tajikistan.

 

[pakistani342]

Increasing India's dependency on China for energy plus tacit approval of Aksai Chin as Chinese territory. As any access from India to Central Asia through China passes through Aksai Chin

huh?

 

[ito]

Yes China and India are almost each others largest trading partners -- they both gain from that. For example Pakistan India would gain from trade -- arguably Pakistan more so.

But what advantage is there for China or Pakistan to give India access to Afghanistan or CARs -- not much.

The whole concept of Silk Road and AIIB is to connect East Asia to Central Asia. To bring India on board, China has offered Vice President position of AIIB to India.

China means business and 1.3 billion Indians are a big market for China. I don't think China would not give access to India through its territory to CAR.

 

[Spectre]

exactly -- and in return u loose a market -- being a bridge troll is not my calling in life.

Btw does India give Pakistan transit to Bhutan, Nepal and Bangladesh ...



And, if I'm not mistaken there is a "National Clause" in APTTA -- which means you cannot really charge transit fees (nothing significant)

1. China would never give us access unless we offer them something major in return most probably AP and Dalai Lama.

2. Pakistan has other things to gain than just transit fees. It can ask in return access to B'Desh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar etc through India in addition to increased access to gigantic Indian markets.

3. It can ask a solution to Indus River issue. It can even come on the table and kickstart the negotiations for Kashmir issue.

4. Better relations with India will come through this access which would lend a huge credibility to Pakistan, Indian companies can invest in Pakistan. Lowering the risk of war would leave Pakistan free to concentrate fully on their TTP problem. As a result conditions in Pakistan would further stablize and their under utilized economy would shoot up like a rocket.

5. India would never ever think about jeopardizing relation with Pakistan as you can block access for India to C. Asia and Afganistan. Indians are essentially money minded, offer them markets and them would forget about war and Azad Kashmir. You are talking about transit fees, think how much money you would save in defense funding if there is no risk of war with India not because of nuclear detente and arms parity but simply because India would never want one.

Most important for Pakistan it can diversify its relationship from China. Right now Pakistan is completely dependent on China which is disastrous in long term. Pakistan would have to follow Chinese diktats whether it likes it or not. China would never want Pakistan to have good relationship with India as it would then loose its proxy against India.

Pakistan should act smart and make more partners like Japan, India etc. This would help its gain strategic heft instead of just tactical one.

 

[pakistani342]

The whole concept of Silk Road and AIIB is to connect East Asia to Central Asia. To bring India on board, China has offered Vice President position of AIIB to India.

China means business and 1.3 billion Indians are a big market for China. I don't think China would not give access to India through its territory to CAR.

my apologies for not putting too much stock in your "think" -- India/China are already trading partners.

China doesn't get anything for giving India access to CARs -- do you get that?

 

[M.SAAD]

We already have access to Central Asia through China.

How is that? Azad Kashmir doesn't share border with Tajikistan.

Only few miles of China comes in b.w I guess, we'll be directly connected through CPEC I believe .

 

[WAJsal]

Only few miles of China comes in b.w I guess, we'll be directly connected through CPEC I believe .

Red part in the map is Azad Kashmir, were you talking about Gilgit Baltistan?

We are already connected to Central Asia and are trading with different countries.

 

[M.SAAD]

1. China would never give us access unless we offer them something major in return most probably AP and Dalai Lama.

2. Pakistan has other things to gain than just transit fees. It can ask in return access to B'Desh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar etc through India in addition to increased access to gigantic Indian markets.

3. It can ask a solution to Indus River issue. It can even come on the table and kickstart the negotiations for Kashmir issue.

4. Better relations with India will come through this access which would lend a huge credibility to Pakistan, Indian companies can invest in Pakistan. Lowering the risk of war would leave Pakistan free to concentrate fully on their TTP problem. As a result conditions in Pakistan would further stablize and their under utilized economy would shoot up like a rocket.

5. India would never ever think about jeopardizing relation with Pakistan as you can block access for India to C. Asia and Afganistan. Indians are essentially money minded, offer them markets and them would forget about war and Azad Kashmir.

Most important for Pakistan it can diversify its relationship from China. Right now Pakistan is completely dependent on China which is disastrous in long term. Pakistan would have to follow Chinese diktats whether it likes it or not. China would never want Pakistan to have good relationship with India as it would then loose its proxy against India.

Pakistan should act smart and make more partners like Japan, India etc. This would help its gain strategic heft instead of just tactical one.

Like I said, South Asia is the biggest victim of Missed Economic Opportunities in the World, Pakistan and India needs to resolve Kashmir issue somehow and move the f*ck on.

Red part in the map is Azad Kashmir, were you talking about Gilgit Baltistan?

We are already connected to Central Asia and are trading with different countries.

Yes, I always count GB in Kashmir ,my bad .

 

[slapshot]

If only diplomacy worked like Zero-sum game which many members here seem to believe.

OT : Good for us and probably another eye-opener for Ghani after parliament attack.

eye opener what? Another eye opener is that Iran is helping Taliban these days. Doesn't matter what superpower India likes but Taliban are a reality. They are mostly pashtuns which are largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. So they are not going anywhere apparently from USA to Afghanistan everyone is in talks with them. Indians need to take their smelly curry back home and leave the Afghans for good Afghanistan should join purely economic CPEC and be part of economic block.

 

[coffee_cup]

China.

And the funny thing is that the other day Afghans were crying and protesting about the planned trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia via China.

Can't understand these people really.

 

[pakistani342]

1. China would never give us access unless we offer them something major in return most probably AP and Dalai Lama.

AP?
Dalai Lama? -- I hate to speculate but his holiness may be a very kind man but he's not really worth a lot of money.

2. Pakistan has other things to gain than just transit fees. It can ask in return access to B'Desh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar etc through India in addition to increased access to gigantic Indian markets.

Well the land route through India competes with the sea route Karachi <--> Chittagong -- but yes ... however I'd like to point out India has not made any such offer -- the chorus has been to grant India access to Afghanistan and CARs.

Similarly Pakistan can rely on Bangladesh to ask for access to Pakistan -- the Bengalis don't seem to be in any hurry.

3. It can ask a solution to Indus River issue. It can even come on the table and kickstart the negotiations for Kashmir issue.

4. Better relations with India will come through this access which would lend a huge credibility to Pakistan, Indian companies can invest in Pakistan. Lowering the risk of war would leave Pakistan free to concentrate fully on their TTP problem. As a result conditions in Pakistan would further stablize and their under utilized economy would shoot up like a rocket.

That can happen even without Pakistan granting access to Afghanistan -- Pakistan already has MFN from India and Pakistan should reciprocate -- where does Afghanistan or CARs come into the picture.

Now if you want to talk Kashmir - Pak-Hindi Bhai Bhai.

5. India would never ever think about jeopardizing relation with Pakistan as you can block access for India to C. Asia and Afganistan. Indians are essentially money minded, offer them markets and them would forget about war and Azad Kashmir.

Hate to tell you this everyone is money minded -- and yes Pak/India trade yes yes and yes -- access to Afghanistan no -- simply there is no reason for Pakistan to grant that. Pakistan/India trade has its own impetus.

Most important for Pakistan it can diversify its relationship from China. Right now Pakistan is completely depended on China which is disastrous in long term. Pakistan would have to follow Chinese diktats whether it likes it or not. China would never want Pakistan to have good relationship with India as it would then loose its proxy against India.

Oh bhai yes yes and yes -- but where does Afghanistan come into this?

Pakistan should act smart and make more partners like Japan, India etc. This would help its gain strategic heft instead of just tactical one.

Yes:
Ashwaria in Lahore yes (ahhh what do Pakistanis see in Bollywood) -- but yes
Kameez Phar Khan in Mardan -- yes
Laal Topi wala in Bannu -- yes
Vatar-kar-enginer in Bengaluru -- yes
Route to Afghanistan no -- there is no need to -- the above thing have their own intrinsic value.

Now if you want to do out of the box thinking on Kashmir - ball-e ball-e