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Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

I think we need to improve our security at all the bases that we have... By proper training and equiping the soldiers...

Agreed, Ahh for once
Thanks Nishan!

But still its the Equiping the soldiers part from your that i fear, eyes on some laser guns or something?
Kidding!

Yes, proper training and night fighting abilities is a must.

Moreover, these are things that are to be nipped in the bud as once they terrorists are out, committed to get themselves killed, then they are very hard to counter.

You know, the nuclear proliferation acts put strong measures to avoid and limit the availability of enriched Uranium, because, this is the main thing. Ones it is made available, the Atom bomb is not that far away.
Similarly, we need to act proactively, find and eliminate the cause of problem.
Intelligence networks need to work more efficiently and the security forces then need to pay more attention to what they are warning about.
 
A blind Spec Ops unit facing a multi prong attack in FIBUA/MOUT is quite stressed. Deploying spec ops teams for sentry duties is a sheer waste. They should be on short notice deployments tied to air units for fast roping into a hot zone when primary QRF calls for backup under heavy fire, or to neutralize a VP hostage or clearance situation.

What I suggest is correct threat analysis, deployment of a multi-layered security system, night fighting capability, and training, training, training. When we do the same for all other OPS missions, why do we ignore security and the threat it represents to our Vital Points? Baffles me.

It took just one trained person with the correct gear (need I say more?), training, and optics to interdict the complete miscreant team in Kamra. Imagine if it was properly setup for the conventional forces, then there is really no threat to our assets.

Maybe the security of key conventional warfare assets should also be handed over to Strategic forces, so at least they can survive the asymmetric warfare of attrition that Pakistan is currently enduring. Otherwise, the strategic assets will themselves become vulnerable to a first wave if the conventional forces and the key capabilities acquired during Musharraf Era are neutralized prior to their actual need of deployment.

They Are Vulnerable
 
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The support behind fighters ♥
 
Aerial Eyes: Pakistan’s New AWACS Fleets


Mar 06, 2013 12:12 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff Latest updates [?]: Pakistan's government comes clean, admits that a terrorist attack has destroyed 1 AWACS. Updates since 2008 include arrival of 4 Saab 2000 AWACS; Contract for 4 Chinese ZDK-03 "Karakorum Eagle" AWACS; Clarity re: Saab numbers, but not dollars; Article improvements, incl. added research links.
In June 2006, Saab signed a SEK 8.3 billion provisional contract to supply Argus turboprop airborne early warning (AEW&C) systems to Pakistan, based on the Saab 2000 regional turboprop airliner and the Erieye fixed active array radar. The buy capped a 25-year quest by the Pakistani Air force to field AWACS machines, which can survey the airspace for hundreds of miles around, and co-ordinate intercept and strike missions based on what it sees.

The Saab aircraft beat other competitors, including US offers to sell the E-2C Hawkeye system. In 2007, the buy was reduced somewhat for financial reasons, but Pakistan took delivery of at least 4 planes. Then, in 2008, the PAF looked to China for another 4 AWACS. Despite some setbacks, Pakistan now has a diverse AWACS fleet with more than 5 aircraft, even as its rival India has struggled to field 3 planes…

Pakistan’s New AWACS

Saab on Erieye
“SAAB 2000 & ERIEYE AWE&C system ” (now a dead link), a Pakistani government site explains the operational need for these aircraft, and chronicles the country’s pursuit of the 707-based E-3C AWACS aircraft and related systems since 1979. Indeed, Pakistan had pursued the Erieye system before, but had been rejected several times under Sweden’s military export policies.

Once that obstacle was cleared, Pakistan engaged in long negotiations with Saab, finally clinching a deal in 2006. With respect to the new S2000 AEW’s radar capabilities, the article notes that:

“The Ericsson PS-890 Erieye radar uses an active array with 200 solid state modules. The range of the S-band, 3 GHz, and side looking radar is 300 km. The 1,985-lb (900-kg) dorsal antenna is housed in a 29-ft 6.3-in (9-m) long box radome mounted atop the fuselage. Utilizing adaptive side lobe suppression, the look angle on each side is about 160 degrees. From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles), though this is a function of the aircraft’s cruising height. The electronically scanned antenna can scan sectors of interest frequently while others are monitored, and a single sector can be scanned in different modes at the same time.”

That last bit is a reference to the AESA radar’s ability to scan ground and air activity at the same time, rather than switching between these modes as conventional radars do. An Australian airpower article explains the potential benefits of AESA radars against other AEW&C offerings like the E-2C Hawkeye – and also notes the limitations of the Erieye system:
S-1000 & Gripen
“The limitation of the two sided array is that it can only cover two 120 degree sectors abeam of the aircraft, leaving 60 degree blind sectors over the nose and tail of the aircraft, and reduced antenna performance from 45 degrees off the beam aspect. Another limitation stems from the use of an airframe too small to accommodate a comprehensive self contained command, control and communications system, and other sensors such as a capable ESM and track association system.”

Saab’s corporate release explains the split: 2/3 of the order value is for Saab, and 1/3 for Ericsson Microwave Systems’ PS-890 Erieye radars. EMS “is, after the Saab acquisition [see DID coverage], expected to be a part of Saab in September 2006.” Subsequent reports finally establish the number of planes bought at 4.

A 2008 buy added 4 Chinese ZDK-03 “Karakoram Eagle” AWACS planes, based on the Y-8F-600 turboprop cargo plane with improved engines and modern avionics. These larger planes use a more conventional “rotating radome” arrangement, and supposedly uses the same active electronically steered array radar used in China’s Y-8F-400 derived KJ-2000 AWACS. The ZDK-03 is also said to be compatible with secondary ELINT surveillance roles.

Contracts and Related Events
2011 – 2013
Terrorist attack destroys an S2000 plane.

Over the hump?
Feb 6-9/13: Revelations. Defence Secretary Lt. Gen. (ret.) Asif Yasin Malik informs Pakistan’s National Assembly Standing Committee on Defence that the defence installations saw their last attacks in Peshawar and the Kamra airbase, but adds that an AWACS plane was destroyed during the attack on Kamra AB in August 2012. Initially, it isn’t clear which AWACS plane type he’s referring to, but a subsequent report by Pakistan’s The News International confirms that it was one of Saab’s S2000 AEW planes.

That’s a bit awkward, because Pakistani authorities have apparently been claiming for the last 6 months that the attack had just damaged an aircraft’s nose cone, and that it would be repaired in Sweden. The report also refers to “one of the four” planes, which would finally provide a reliable number.

Speaking of reliable numbers, the report quotes varied prices per plane of $130-140 million, up to $250 million. It’s true that the final, reduced deal was worth about $1 billion, so dividing by 4 does get $250 million. On the other hand, any purchase like this must also include extensive training, a full stock of spare parts, and extensive initial support. A $140 million per plane figure implies a split of $560 million planes (140 x 4) + $440 million support etc. That seems high, but it all depends on the level of support provided. The News International | TNI follow-on .

Aug 16/12: Minhas attack. The Pakistani Taliban attack Minhas Air Base, at Kamra about 60 miles NW of the capital, Islamabad. Base commander Air Commodore Muhammad Azam is reported to be seriously wounded but in a stable condition, 2 soldiers die, and all 8 attackers are killed. It later emerges that 1 of the Saab AEW aircraft was destroyed.

Minhas is one of Pakistan’s biggest air bases, including new JF-17 Thunder fighters being assembled there as part of a joint venture with China. That makes the 3rd major attack and breach of a secure Pakistani military facility in the last 3 years or so. BBC .
Minhas AB attack
2006 – 2010
Deal signed for S2000 AEW&C planes, then reduced; S2000s rolled out and begin arriving; Subsequent deal for 4 Chinese ZDY-03 “Karakoram Eagle” AWACS; ZDY-03 rollout.

ZDK-03 rollout
click for videoNov 13/10: ZDK-03. China holds a rollout ceremony for Pakistan’s ZDY-03 AWACS system , based on the 4-engine Yun-8 cargo turboprop. Pakistan ordered 4 of the planes in 2008, rather than adding to its purchase from Saab. Deliveries aren’t expected to begin before 2011.

The purchase of Chinese AWACS planes could be due to several factors. One is the cost per additional aircraft from China, which can compete very aggressively on price. Another involves Pakistan’s close relations with China, which extend to joint military programs like the JF-17 Thunder fighter. Then there’s the cautious impetus for supplier and technology diversification, so that problems with any one platform or its suppliers don’t impair a strategic national capability like AWACS. Pakistan Military Review | 2011 delivery picture .
ZDK-03s
April 24/10: Erieye #2 arrives. Pakistan’s 2nd of 4 Saab-2000 AEW aircraft lands at an operational base, as preparations are made to induct it into the fleet. PTI .


Induction
Dec 14/09: Erieye. Pakistan’s Daily Times quotes Minister for Defence Production, Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi, who confirms that the 1st Erieye AWACS plane has reached Pakistan, and 3 more planes are expected in 2010. The formal induction ceremony takes place on Dec 29/09. Karachi News .
S2000-AEW 1st arrival
Oct 21/09: Erieye.. In a ceremony in Linköping, Saab and the Pakistan Air Force celebrate the start of the final tests of the new Erieye AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning and Control) aircraft. The aircraft is currently undergoing system tests in Sweden, which aim is to evaluate the complete system including aircraft, radar, C2 system, communication and live situation picture. Follow on testing in Pakistan later in 2009, including integration into the Pakistan Air Force’s Command & Control Ground Environment.

May 28/09: Erieye. Pakistan’s Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, is quoted by Pakistan’s The News International as saying that Pakistan would begin receiving its AWACS planes by October 2009.

April 3/08: Erieye. China’s government-controlled Xinhua reports that the first Saab 2000 Erieye aircraft for the PAF was rolled out in Sweden and prepared for flight trials by the year end, after being equipped with a full suite of mission systems. “The Pakistan Air Force achieved a major landmark in its Airborne Early Warning Program with the roll out of its first Saab 2000 AEW&C in a simple but impressive ceremony at the Saab facility in Sweden,” the PAF statement said.

The aircraft will be put through trials before being delivered to the PAF in 2009. See also Flight International’s photo coverage , which puts the total number of Saab 2000 aircraft at 5.
S2000-AEW Rollout
May 28/07: Erieye. Maybe not quite finalized. A Saab release states that:

“With reference to the sale of Saab Airborne Surveillance Systems to Pakistan, the customer has for financial reasons and in accordance with the original contract, asked to renegotiate part of the contract concerning a reduction of the number of systems. Together with Saab terms and conditions then have been agreed, concerning a reduction. Saab and the Government of Pakistan continue as planned with the delivery of the system.

As a result of the renegotiation, the order value is decreased by approximately SEK 1.35 billion [DID 8.3B - 1.35B = 6.95B, a 16.3% reduction and about $1 billion total at a May 28 conversion]. Income will decrease proportionally to the volume change, but other commercial terms and conditions will remain unchanged.”

The number of planes in the revised order was not specified.
S2000-AEW renegotiation & reduction
June 22/06: Saab announces a SEK 8.3 billion (approx. $1.15 billion at then-rate conversion) provisional contract for Airborne Early Warning & Control (AEW&C) surveillance systems using Saab 2000 turboprops equipped with Ericsson’s Erieye radar.

According to earlier reports at Pakistani Defence , Pakistan aimed to buy 14 SAAB 2000 aircraft from Sweden: 7 for the PAF’s AEW&C role as Argus aircraft, and the remaining 7 for the state-owned PIA airline. Saab releases, however, have made no mention of a passenger version. It said only that:

“Two third of the order value is for Saab and one third for Ericsson Microwave Systems, witch is, after the Saab acquisition, expected to be a part of Saab in September 2006.”
Initial Saab 2000-AEW Erieye order
Additional Readings

■Saab – Saab 200 ERIEYE AEW&C

■Airforce Technology – Saab 2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) Aircraft, Sweden

■Sino-Defence – Yun-8 Rotodome Airborne Early Warning Aircraft . Also known as ZDK-03.

■Air Power Australia – AEW&C – Phased Array Technology: Parts 1 & 2 . Good general primer, last updated 2005.

■Pakistan Military Review (October 2012) – ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle AEW&C in Google Earth .

■Pakistan Military Review (November 2011) – Pakistani Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C at Dubai Air Show 2011 . The UAE bought a pair of similar Saab S340-AEW aircraft for its own use in 2009, and Saudi Arabia bought an S2000 in 2010.

■Flight International (Sept 11/09) – DSEi: Saab 2000 offered for maritime patrol, signals intelligence tasks

■Flight International (April 30/08) – Saab scans AEW market for new Erieye buyers

■Flight International (April 30/08) – PICTURES: Pakistan’s first Saab AEW&C system emerges

■Aviation Week (Feb 13/08) – Low-Cost and Effective AEW Systems Find Buyers

■DID – Indian AWACS Moving Forward on 2 Fronts. A large IL-76 Phalcon system, and a smaller system based on Embraer’s ERJ-145 regional jet, using a radar similar to the Erieye. As usual, India is insisting on local development, and so they’re fielding systems later than Pakistan.

Categories: Air Reconnaissance, Asia - Central, Asia - China, Contracts - Awards, Europe - Other, Events, Other Corporation, Radars, Specialty Aircraft
 
@fatman17

When and how did this happen ?

Mar 06, 2013 12:12 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff Latest updates [?]: Pakistan's government comes clean, admits that a terrorist attack has destroyed 1 AWACS. Updates since 2008 include arrival of 4 Saab 2000 AWACS; Contract for 4 Chinese ZDK-03 "Karakorum Eagle" AWACS; Clarity re: Saab numbers, but not dollars; Article improvements, incl. added research links.
 
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@fatman17

When and how did this happen ?

Sari raat Heer ranjha sunaty rahy log, subha sulman nay poocha heer admi tha aurat.

Bro, A whole dedicated thread on this news can be found in this forum, where were you all the time?
 
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@fatman17

When and how did this happen ?

internal sources confirm this - the nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair, rendering the entire a/c as a complete write-off.
 
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internal sources confirm this - the nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair, rendering the entire a/c as a complete write-off.

And what official sources claim and where officially it is nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair?
 
internal sources confirm this - the nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair, rendering the entire a/c as a complete write-off.
cant the put rest of the stuff on a chinese aircraft it will be good but wont be a saab aircraft
 
Sari raat Heer ranjha sunaty rahy log, subha sulman nay poocha heera admi tha aurat.

Bro, A whole dedicated thread on this news can be found in this forum, where were you all the time?

And what official sources claim and where officially it is nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair?

It's the official response and it's source I was interested to find.

internal sources confirm this - the nose cone and cockpit were damaged beyond repair, rendering the entire a/c as a complete write-off.

So as yet, we are dependent on internal sources.

The article is based on PAF coming clean ... which means it has to be done on paper after due diligence not to mention the subsequent action and punishing the slackers.
 
It's the official response and it's source I was interested to find.



So as yet, we are dependent on internal sources.

The article is based on PAF coming clean ... which means it has to be done on paper after due diligence not to mention the subsequent action and punishing the slackers.

Sec Def in an open parliamentary session disclosed one SAAB aircraft totally destroyed on spot in Kamra base attack. The news came out on Feb 6. Hence officially the nose cone damage theory debunked and no PAF didn't come clean, it was SEC DEF who have to disclose this news infront of bloody civilians.

How do you miss that news and relevant discussions despite you being an active poster?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-159025-Tax-payers-kept-in-the-dark-about-loss-of-plane-worth-$250m
 
Sec Def in an open parliamentary session disclosed one SAAB aircraft totally destroyed on spot in Kamra base attack. The news came out on Feb 6. Hence officially the nose cone damage theory debunked.

How do you miss that news and relevant discussions despite you being an active poster?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-159025-Tax-payers-kept-in-the-dark-about-loss-of-plane-worth-$250m

Obviousely not active enough ... and poster has another job to make money off.

Anyway ...Now that the cats' out of the bag, how is PAF going to take it ?

will the base commander be prosecuted / charged ?

Will the perimeter security guards be held acccountable for fleeing the scene ?

will the PAF top brass (joke) be charged for not putting enough money for a permenant fixed hanger for the awacs ?

I know the answer, but ask anyway.
 
Hi,

As I have told you people many a times---PAF is filled up with traitors. They have deceived the country many a times---.
 
...Now that the cats' out of the bag, how is PAF going to take it ? will the base commander be prosecuted / charged ? Will the perimeter security guards be held acccountable for fleeing the scene ? will the PAF top brass (joke) be charged for not putting enough money for a permenant fixed hanger for the awacs ? I know the answer, but ask anyway.

Sorry to say that we all know the answer -- we honor these people, and are repaid in this shabby manner where we cannot even expect them to do their duty -- but then we are more interested in Iman, Taqwa and Jihad, not Duty, Patriotism and Professionalism.
 

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