Pakistan Emerging II - Developments, infrastructure and progress in Lahore

[TechLahore]

Friends, this is the second article in my Pakistan Emerging series. Would love to get your feedback, in particular, a discussion on projects I have missed out on.

Pakistan ZINDABAD!

Pakistan Emerging – Part II

Mar.14, 2010 in Economy, Infrastructure, Living in Pakistan, Politics and Society, SW Industry Leave a Comment

A few weeks ago we looked at Pakistan’s evolving situation as it relates to regional security and in context of its alliances with emerging powers. In other words, how the regional and external situation is propelling Pakistan in a very positive direction. In this second piece of the “Pakistan Emerging” series, I want to focus instead on things happening within Pakistan; projects, infrastructure, initiatives etc. that I believe are mere peeks into both the quality and quanta of development and change taking place in the country. [Read the rest of this entry...]

 

[sparklingway]

I certainly have reservations about promoting projects aimed exclusively at the upper middle class as the signs of progress. The emergence of real estate holdings, strengthened by our social structure which accepts vast landholdings as the sign of power, has not been a great path for us too choose.

Much of these so-called "mega development" projects have been riddled with huge kickbacks paid for removing forcefully existing populations of poor farmers and peasants. State land has been sold at throwaway prices and people's land has been forecfully taken away.

We have not much progressed much in the most important sector i.e. social welfare.

I know some people will have reservations on my opinion and will view these as being pessimistic, but building more and more golf courses across a poverty stricken country is the sign of growing inequality among the masses. While some may argue that the rise of a ruling wealthy elite and high income middle class are signs of economic progress and at the heart of a capitalistic economy, I humbly disagree. Income inequality is has been left unaddressed for 63 years and has exacerbated sharply in the past decade.

Lake City and Royal Palms are slaps in the face of the general public. Celebrating the establishment of new, modern and quality schools across the rural areas, improvement and development of DHQs and land redistribution are signs of economic development and the rise of a nation. More and more golf courses for the elite are a saddening thing to see.

 

[TechLahore]

I certainly have reservations about promoting projects aimed exclusively at the upper middle class as the signs of progress. The emergence of real estate holdings, strengthened by our social structure which accepts vast landholdings as the sign of power, has not been a great path for us too choose.

Much of these so-called "mega development" projects have been riddled with huge kickbacks paid for removing forcefully existing populations of poor farmers and peasants. State land has been sold at throwaway prices and people's land has been forecfully taken away.

We have not much progressed much in the most important sector i.e. social welfare.

I know some people will have reservations on my opinion and will view these as being pessimistic, but building more and more golf courses across a poverty stricken country is the sign of growing inequality among the masses. While some may argue that the rise of a ruling wealthy elite and high income middle class are signs of economic progress and at the heart of a capitalistic economy, I humbly disagree. Income inequality is has been left unaddressed for 63 years and has exacerbated sharply in the past decade.

Lake City and Royal Palms are slaps in the face of the general public. Celebrating the establishment of new, modern and quality schools across the rural areas, improvement and development of DHQs and land redistribution are signs of economic development and the rise of a nation. More and more golf courses for the elite are a saddening thing to see.

That's one way to look at it, though even in your pessimistic view, you neglected to mention the dozen odd other projects I referred to in the piece.

For example, do you also believe the Software Park, Ring Road, Ferozepur road expansion, Sundar Industrial Estate and the expansion of the Airport to be "slaps in the face of the general public"? What about the Shalimar flyover and the Harbanspura underpass? How about the new sports city near Jallo? Or the Thokar niaz beg flyover?

I will tell you that while I highlighted Lake City and Raaya, there are a large number of schemes targeted towards low and medium income families also, and they provide a much higher standard of living than people of this economic standing have ever had in the past. These include projects by Bahria town and others where 3-5 marla town homes are available on mortgage terms the like of which we've never had in Pakistan in the past.

And for each new hotel and each new Royal Palm, there are hundreds or thousands of permanent jobs created. There are thousands of construction, manufacturing and infrastructure jobs sustained while these projects are being built.

I don't agree with the "Big Building Very Bad" school of thought.

 

[sparklingway]

That's one way to look at it, though even in your pessimistic view, you neglected to mention the dozen odd other projects I referred to in the piece.

For example, do you also believe the Software Park, Ring Road, Ferozepur road expansion, Sundar Industrial Estate and the expansion of the Airport to be "slaps in the face of the general public"? What about the Shalimar flyover and the Harbanspura underpass? How about the new sports city near Jallo? Or the Thokar niaz beg flyover?

I will tell you that while I highlighted Lake City and Raaya, there are a large number of schemes targeted towards low and medium income families also, and they provide a much higher standard of living than people of this economic standing have ever had in the past. These include projects by Bahria town and others where 3-5 marla town homes are available on mortgage terms the like of which we've never had in Pakistan in the past.

And for each new hotel and each new Royal Palm, there are hundreds or thousands of permanent jobs created. There are thousands of construction, manufacturing and infrastructure jobs sustained while these projects are being built.

I don't agree with the "Big Building Very Bad" school of thought.

I very much believe in the "Big Building Very Bad" school of thought. People have been sold the idea that widening a road somehow is "development". Building a flyover over a six lane road over an underpass (Jinnah Avenue/Islamabad Expressway Intersection) clearly shows the lack of planning and failure in traffic management on the part of the authorities concerned. Ahmed Rafay Alam has contributed much to this area. Studying Islamabad, Chandigarh and Brasilia shows a stark difference in how the cities have been handled as they have progressed, keeping in mind that they were established within five years of each other. Islamabad is the ideal slap in the face of the general public as it has transformed itself from being the seat of the government to the city of tax evading elite. A capital without a mass transit system clearly shows the social inclinations of the people living there. (If you haven't just read about Chandigarh and Brasilia's expansion and city models, you will be fascinated to say the least)

The labor jobs that you have mentioned can be viewed from both perspectives. While they do provide new jobs to the working class, these big construction companies evade laws by paying laborers below the minimum wage and our in bed with the authorities when it comes to real estate purchases. The idea of an ever expanding city is frightening to say the least. As the idea of living outside the city in a suburb seems derogatory and insulting to many in the upper middle class, cities have been exploding. Lahore is the best case here. It is a city of around 10 million(or maybe more) now and the city landscape is devoid of any apartment projects. The here are many reasons why apartments have never caught on in Lahore. The primary economic factor has been the cheap and plentiful availability of agricultural land on the outskirts of the city. Property developers have cashed in on these peri-urban areas with houses that are designed to attract a high-income class of resident. No thought was spared to what this meant for agricultural produce on the outskirts of town (destroyed and relocated miles away) and the size of the city (the automobile dependent urban sprawl is massive). The expansion towards Jhallo, Kasur and Gujranwala are points in this case.

High property values inside the city have made apartments risky business. Not because people don't want apartments, but because property developers want to maximize the money they can get out of a building. That's why the few apartment buildings in Lahore have dingy, narrow corridors (wider corridors means less square footage that can be sold or put on rent elsewhere) and few elevators. Who wants to live in a place like that. Only 26 percent of Lahore's population has an automobile (around 9 percent have cars) and the extensiveness of its mass transit system is known to all and sundry. I have far too much digressed into a debate on urban planning.

We can have our difference of opinion and I'm happy to accept that I forgot to highlight the Software Park and the Sundar Industrial Estate. These are good initiatives which surely contribute towards a better future. Lahore's future will be bleak as a clean and healthy city if we continue to sit in the laps of these real estate developers. Prime real estate meant for agricultural uses (Lahore-Kasur road farm houses) meant for providing locally grown fresh crop to the city have been illegally converted to the places of entertainment we know as farm houses today. On the other hand, real estate developers have pursued mega projects like golf courses in urban areas when population density demands a Tokyo style approach, not a pointless and superficial Dubai model. Islamabad embraces the Dubai model like no other city.

If the pace of urban immigration is not going to slow down (which it isn't), then we need to promote apartment buildings not villas, conservation planning not golf courses, sub urban development connected through ring roads and not DHA sectors and above all provide a sustainable and decent mass transit system.

Setting up three to five new small cities in Southern Punjab, South eastern NWFP, Interior Sindh and central Baluchistan to divert immigration from the big urban areas has been recommended time and again and the idea of Zulfiqarabad (underway) should be taken seriously. Restricting land available to these mega developers is not the way, restricting the nature of their projects can be a way.

As for the overall economic effects of such projects, I do agree that they bring a rejuvenated sense of existence among the middle class and can be considered as an indicator of economic progress (albeit not totally). The urban middle class will continue to rise (as trends show), but the rural middle class, the heart of our population, is being left behind and alienated. Moving away from an agro based economy by promoting urban immigration (promoting as in social factors promoting it) will be detrimental to our economy in the distant future. The farmer is at the heart of our nation's will and he is being sidelined, thanks to a decade of a superficial liberalization and consumer financing that never reached the agrobase. Provide credit to the farmer, re-distribute the land, enhance crop yields and discourage urban explosion !!

When writing the 3rd part of your article, do let me know. I'll be honored if you feel that I'm worthy enough of writing for your blog.

 

[TechLahore]

I respect your views, and yes, I've read Rafay's articles. I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but I do hold different opinions on quite a bit... for example, I do consider the widening of a main artery like the Canal road, in a city of 6-10million people, to be necessary. Trying to argue that everyone should get on cycles or start walking is fine and well, but Lahore already has a very high number of cycle riders and we still need wider roads.

elite. A capital without a mass transit system clearly shows the social inclinations of the people living there.

Mass transit systems are a good thing. Lahore's is in the planning stage while Karachi's is being worked on now. I believe a lot of the land acquisition has happened already. Islamabad is not quite big enough to really require a mass transit system, but I wouldn't argue against one there either. Build, build, build!

The labor jobs that you have mentioned can be viewed from both perspectives. While they do provide new jobs to the working class, these big construction companies evade laws by paying laborers below the minimum wage and our in bed with the authorities when it comes to real estate purchases. The idea of an ever expanding city is

Sir, you say this (hopefully), knowing full well that something is better than nothing. It's not like these people are being forcibly pulled away from better paying jobs and are made to build these buildings under threat... they are tradesmen and they make a decent living which would not have been possible in the absence of these projects. I live in Lahore and have had various small-medium sized construction projects done over the last several years. I can tell you that a raaj (mason) who was paid 400 in 2004 is being paid 700-800 now.

frightening to say the least. As the idea of living outside the city in a suburb seems derogatory and insulting to many in the upper
middle class, cities have been exploding. Lahore is the best case here.

Not sure I agree with this one... what are Bedian, Chak Shehzad etc. if not suburbs. They are highly desirable...

It is a city of around 10 million(or maybe more) now and the city landscape is devoid of any apartment projects. The here are many reasons why apartments have never caught on in Lahore. The primary economic factor has been the cheap and plentiful availability of agricultural land on the outskirts of the city. Property developers

Apartments are catching on. Every single apartment in the Park Lane tower building was sold more than year prior to its completion. The PACE tower in Gulberg is the same way; almost all the units have been sold. In the lower/middle class category, perhaps you are not familiar with Askari Flats, but they are massive developments with dozens of buildings... one location is close to the old Walton airstrip in Lahore. Every single apartment is occupied.

Many of the high-end projects in Islamabad and Lahore include very nice apartments. Karachi is 10 steps ahead as several banner projects, including the Meinhardt group's Creek Marina, DHA's Creek Towers (Creek City) and Emaar's Crescent bay exclusively include apartments as residential units.

have cashed in on these peri-urban areas with houses that are designed to attract a high-income class of resident. No thought was spared to what this meant for agricultural produce on the outskirts of town (destroyed and relocated miles away) and the size of the city (the automobile dependent urban sprawl is massive). The expansion towards Jhallo, Kasur and Gujranwala are points in this case.

A couple of things here... I too am concerned about the rising population and its implications, including reduced availability of agricultural land. But God has really blessed our country immensely. Consider a few things below:

1. We have hundreds of thousands of acres (if not millions) of land that can easily be brought under cultivation. Typically, when agricultural land on the outskirts of Lahore is sold and urbanized, the farmer who sold the land goes and buys 5 times his original holding in Kasur or elsewhere. I used this specific example because this has happened now 5 or 6 times in transactions I have either witnessed or been involved in myself. I am not saying we should continue to grow our cities forever. But I am simply pointing out that the shortage in Pakistan, by God's grace, is not viable agricultural land. Water resources are redirected when land converts from agri to urban. Jallo area is a good example of this. As some of the old agricultural holdings around the canal have been urbanized, the canals have simply carried the water further out, where it has been used to bring previously tube-well irrigated land under nehri cultivation.

2. The population density in Pakistan seems really high, but put it in context of the regional situation. India's population density is 2.5 times ours... today! If you extrapolate the reduction in our growth rate, it is highly likely that we won't quite double in size. Which means that we will never have to deal with the population density that the India of today has to face. We'll be significantly under. Again, let's work on curbing population growth, but let's not think that we are facing an impending catastrophe. As you said previously, we DO need to focus on quickly developing our available human resource more effectively. This can be a HUGE asset for Pakistan.

3. On the auto-dependent sprawl, yes, you are correct. We do need a mass transit system. But if I may, let me also submit the following: If you are familiar with Lahore, you would know that there is this common saying amongst those who live in Defence - "Defence say bahir jaanay ki zaroorat hi nahien parti" ("I never need to leave defence.."). And the reason is that while we call all these new developments "Lahore", they are really fairly self-contained. They've all got their own commercial areas, business districts, hospitals, schools and so on. Lake City - which we were earlier discussing - is the same way. If I lived there, I don't know that I would leave much, other than for socializing. Since there is a lot of industry in that area (Multan road, Raiwind road etc.), it is actually conceivable that many residents of Lake City would want to live there precisely because they would like to be closer to the factories/businesses where they work. Without Lake City, or DHA, you would actually be more automobile dependent than you will be with them.

High property values inside the city have made apartments risky business. Not because people don't want apartments, but because property developers want to maximize the money they can get out of a building. That's why the few apartment buildings in Lahore have dingy, narrow corridors (wider corridors means less square footage

I tried to address this above... I am not denying that there are apartment buildings of the type that you've described, but I think a quick glance at the upcoming apartment projects in Lahore, as well as the success of some recent projects, will demonstrate that a shift is occurring towards apartments.

wants to live in a place like that. Only 26 percent of Lahore's population has an automobile (around 9 percent have cars) and the extensiveness of its mass transit system is known to all and sundry. I have far too much digressed into a debate on urban planning.

We need mass transit. In the absence of that, one recent positive step have been these CNG Qingqis. Ridiculous as they may look, they are actually pretty cheap and have a relatively smaller environmental impact. The move to 4-stroke green rickshaws has also made them quieter... Not saying things are perfect, but one must take note of positive developments too.

We can have our difference of opinion and I'm happy to accept that I forgot to highlight the Software Park and the Sundar Industrial Estate. These are good initiatives which surely contribute towards a better

Thanks for your comments... engaging discussion.

Setting up three to five new small cities in Southern Punjab, South eastern NWFP, Interior Sindh and central Baluchistan to divert immigration from the big urban areas has been recommended time and again and the idea of Zulfiqarabad (underway) should be taken seriously. Restricting land available to these mega developers is not the way, restricting the nature of their projects can be a way.

This is a GREAT idea and I'm all for it... Gwadar was a start, but has not developed as quickly as we would have all liked. We need to develop more new cities. No question.

As for the overall economic effects of such projects, I do agree that they bring a rejuvenated sense of existence among the middle class and can be considered as an indicator of economic progress (albeit not totally). The urban middle class will continue to rise (as trends show), but the rural middle class, the heart of our

Pakistan is quite urbanized now, so these projects do impact a significant percentage of the population.

They also give people confidence. Every nation needs that.

population, is being left behind and alienated. Moving away from an agro based economy by promoting urban immigration (promoting as in social factors promoting it) will be detrimental to our economy in the distant future. The farmer is at the heart of our nation's will and he is being sidelined, thanks to a decade of a superficial liberalization and consumer financing that never reached the agrobase. Provide credit to the farmer, re-distribute the land, enhance crop yields and discourage urban explosion !!

Some of my friends have moved back from the US to start agricultural businesses in Pakistan! They are doing great! Tunnel farming, hydroponics, efficient dairy farms... it's all happening. An acre of land that used to give you 30-40K/year with wheat, is now giving you 4-5 lacs with tunnel farming! It's really amazing and I am personally super excited at these developments. With the land we currently have, we can feed three-four times our population just with better land management and more efficient cultivation techniques. Slowly, but surely, we will get there inshaAllah.

 

[TechLahore]

When writing the 3rd part of your article, do let me know. I'll be honored if you feel that I'm worthy enough of writing for your blog.

What a kind and generous comment and offer! Thank you. The next one is going to be on Islamabad. Please feel free to write or contribute parts, as you wish. I will be honoured to publish your excellent (and incredibly cogent!) writing.

 

[sparklingway]

Your generosity is much appreciated and I'm glad I'm able to have a meaningful and though provoking, intelligent discussion on this topic with someone other than Ahmed Rafay Alam after a long time.

Apartments are catching on. Every single apartment in the Park Lane tower building was sold more than year prior to its completion. The PACE tower in Gulberg is the same way; almost all the units have been sold. In the lower/middle class category, perhaps you are not familiar with Askari Flats, but they are massive developments with dozens of buildings... one location is close to the old Walton airstrip in Lahore. Every single apartment is occupied.

Many of the high-end projects in Islamabad and Lahore include very nice apartments. Karachi is 10 steps ahead as several banner projects, including the Meinhardt group's Creek Marina, DHA's Creek Towers (Creek City) and Emaar's Crescent bay exclusively include apartments as residential units.

Do you seriously consider the PACE tower and Park Lane Towers as projects for the middle class? Upper middle class can access these by burdening themselves with housing loans but the middle class (middle level civil servant, bank cashier) can only look at them with awe.

The Askaris that were constructed in Lahore are old and the new Askari projects have been massive villas projects as usual. Askari apartments not only catered to a small populace, they have been discontinued by the GHQ owing to the vast availability of cheap peri-urban land available, the GHQ being the biggest real estate developer in Pakistan.

Projects like Gold Crest Islamabad/Karachi and Centaurs are just high end luxury apartments. Cheap, high rise urban complexes of 3-4 bedrooms for the middle class are what's needed. They can provide a much better living standard than the old parts of the city that have been left to the wolves.

As for Islamabad not needing a mass transit system, mass transit does not necessarily imply a subterranean or (ordinary) train based system. Rapid Bus Transit Systems have been successfully implemented across the globe. If we do not consider providing a rapid transit system b/w Rawalpindi and Islamabad, then where else would we provide one. I'm not implying a huge public transport system, an efficient transport system. Small cities across the globe have more public transport facilities than Gujranwala. Provision of an efficient public transport system has never been at the forefront of state/provincial/municipal priorities. Islamabad personifies the weakness in this regard, it being a well planned city with a huge working class. The automobile sprawl in Islamabad is horrifying to say the least. It takes less time to go by air from Lahore to Karachi than it takes to go from Rawat to Karachi Company (outskirts of Pindi to Islamabad)

The current status of the the LRMT and KCR is known to maybe a handful (at least I'm unaware and thinking that they've been sidelined), thanks to our bureaucratic red tape and policies of deliberate ambiguity (aimed at controlling information and hence exercising power). KCR I've heard is progressing, land is being acquired but the LRMT as far as I'm aware is dead.

1. We have hundreds of thousands of acres (if not millions) of land that can easily be brought under cultivation. Typically, when agricultural land on the outskirts of Lahore is sold and urbanized, the farmer who sold the land goes and buys 5 times his original holding in Kasur or elsewhere. I used this specific example because this has happened now 5 or 6 times in transactions I have either witnessed or been involved in myself.

The vicinity of Lahore from where the farmers have been pushed away is prime agricultural land. One thing I always appreciated about the Australians is that they identified prime agricultural land (soil nutritional testing and access to water being the indicators) and did not allow anyone to develop real estate on them. A similar approach has been applied in South Africa. The result is a vast cityscape littered with agricultural holding in between. Not only do transportation costs for the crops go down, the city has urban, peri-urban and rural like areas within itself. The urbanization of Lahore's suburbs is an account of glaring corruption, both financial and moral.

2. The population density in Pakistan seems really high, but put it in context of the regional situation. India's population density is 2.5 times ours... today!

Indeed. India is learning fast. Navi Mumbai was a personification of the approach that they are taking forward. Can we implement such a project in Karachi? I hope so.

you would know that there is this common saying amongst those who live in Defence - "Defence say bahir jaanay ki zaroorat hi nahien parti" ("I never need to leave defence.."). And the reason is that while we call all these new developments "Lahore", they are really fairly self-contained. They've all got their own commercial areas, business districts, hospitals, schools and so on. Lake City - which we were earlier discussing - is the same way.

You have a pretty valid point there but for me the on-the-ground-distinction is almost negligible between the areas. Had the DHA Lahore been like 3km further away, it would have looked more like a suburb and the whole feeling would have been different. Developers understand that upper-middle classmen feel insulted to live in a suburb (you might disagree but this is a very very prevalent mentality) and hence they are not pushing the newly developed areas too far. Thus, they are essentially parts of the city and contributing to the environmental and traffic degradation of the city.

Some of my friends have moved back from the US to start agricultural businesses in Pakistan! They are doing great! Tunnel farming, hydroponics, efficient dairy farms... it's all happening. An acre of land that used to give you 30-40K/year with wheat, is now giving you 4-5 lacs with tunnel farming! It's really amazing and I am personally super excited at these developments. With the land we currently have, we can feed three-four times our population just with better land management and more efficient cultivation techniques. Slowly, but surely, we will get there inshaAllah.

An honors course in development geography I'm taking has got me pretty excited in this area as well. I've always dreamed of starting my own small tech company but agribusiness is rewarding and the scope is ever too wide. There's no saturation in agri business and you don't have to come with a new vegetable to get in the business (not to say that it's easy somehow)

Although, I'm very apprehensive of the recent move to give agricultural land to the middle easterns. They have been grabbing land all over Africa and now they're coming over here. The recent tabling of the much feared The Seed (Amendment) Act, 2010 and The Plant Breeder's Rights Act, 2010 is a move by big multinational agribusiness (read Monsanto and Pioneer) to capture our market. We have to say no to them at whatever cost. The debate over the pros and cons of corporate farming isn't the focus of this topic but I felt that I should bring up this point. (The Seed (Amendment) Act, 2010 was passed by the NA on Jan, 28 w/o much debate or thought)

I've been studying the prospects of hydroponic and tunnel farming near Khanpur and Taxila (as I live in Rawalpindi). I might as well end up being a fruit/vegetable exporter . Hook me up with your friends, will you?

 

[ajpirzada]

some genuine debate goin on here. im enjoyin it. please carry on

 

[TechLahore]

Do you seriously consider the PACE tower and Park Lane Towers as projects for the middle class? Upper middle class can access these by burdening themselves with housing loans but the middle class (middle level civil servant, bank cashier) can only look at them with awe.

The Askaris that were constructed in Lahore are old and the new Askari projects have been massive villas projects as usual. Askari

The Askari apartment expansion close to Walton happened less than 6-7 years ago.

I don't consider Pace and Park lane to be for the middle class, my point was that these are seminal projects which will make apartments "acceptable" and even "cool" for all social classes.

Projects like Gold Crest Islamabad/Karachi and Centaurs are just high end luxury apartments. Cheap, high rise urban complexes of 3-4 bedrooms for the middle class are what's needed. They can provide a much better living standard than the old parts of the city that have been left to the wolves.

Yes, you are right about Gold Crest and Centaurus, but please look at Creek City Karachi, Amma tower (stupid name!) Karachi and stuff like this in Lahore:

The vicinity of Lahore from where the farmers have been pushed away is prime agricultural land. One thing I always appreciated about the Australians is that they identified prime agricultural land (soil nutritional testing and access to water being the indicators) and did not allow anyone to develop real estate on them. A similar approach has been applied in South Africa. The result is a vast cityscape littered with agricultural holding in between. Not only do transportation costs for the crops go down, the city has urban, peri-urban and rural like areas within itself. The urbanization of Lahore's suburbs is an account of glaring corruption, both financial and moral.

Could have been managed better, but as I mentioned earlier, due to the fact that we are lucky in terms of having excellent land resources, this is not the end of the world. We need to move towards apartments and more dense housing prior to a significant further expansion of the area that's considered part of Lahore. In this regard, the Ravi on one side, and the Indian border on the other, do provide some pretty specific boundaries.

Indeed. India is learning fast. Navi Mumbai was a personification of the approach that they are taking forward. Can we implement such a project in Karachi? I hope so.

Of course we can. There are a couple of very innovative projects for ultra-low cost housing intended for Karachi's outskirts. They have pretty much completed planning for these but there have been funding delays (banks need to come on board) due to the global economic slump. I am sure you will see implementation on these within the next 5 years. And let me tell you, both the high end and the low end will be far better than Navi Mumbai. On the high end, these isolated satellite development like Crescent Bay will be far more attractive. And at the low end, the houses being designed are far cheaper than anything you could get in Mumbai.

You have a pretty valid point there but for me the on-the-ground-distinction is almost negligible between the areas. Had the DHA Lahore been like 3km further away, it would have looked more like a suburb and the whole feeling would have been different. Developers understand that upper-middle classmen feel insulted to live in a suburb (you might disagree but this is a very very prevalent mentality) and hence they are not pushing the newly developed areas too far. Thus, they are essentially parts of the city and contributing to the environmental and traffic degradation of the city.

Bahria town is quite far away... no?

An honors course in development geography I'm taking has got me pretty excited in this area as well. I've always dreamed of starting my own small tech company but agribusiness is rewarding and the scope is ever too wide. There's no saturation in agri business and you don't have to come with a new vegetable to get in the business (not to say that it's easy somehow)

I'm a technology entrepreneur myself and have built and sold a few software companies. I get a huge thrill from technology and will probably continue to dabble in it for a while... but I am truly excited about diversifying into modern agriculture. The possibilities are endless and in my opinion, it opens the door to a magnificent quality of life.

Although, I'm very apprehensive of the recent move to give agricultural land to the middle easterns. They have been grabbing land all over Africa and now they're coming over here. The recent tabling of the much feared The Seed (Amendment) Act, 2010 and The Plant Breeder's Rights Act, 2010 is a move by big multinational agribusiness (read Monsanto and Pioneer) to capture our market. We have to say no to them at whatever cost. The debate over the pros and cons of corporate farming isn't the focus of this topic but I felt that I should bring up this point. (The Seed (Amendment) Act, 2010 was passed by the NA on Jan, 28 w/o much debate or thought)

I hear you, but again, don't worry too much about. And by the way, Mian Mansha has been planning a massive entry into what is now being referred to as "corporate farming", which is really a form of more efficient, more capital intensive farming to increase yields. I read an interview of his a while back where he said this was the new frontier in his opinion. I agree with him... once this higher yield agriculture becomes more mainstream, you will see that ZAB's famous quote about Pakistan having the capability of being the bread basket for all of Asia, will come true.

I've been studying the prospects of hydroponic and tunnel farming near Khanpur and Taxila (as I live in Rawalpindi). I might as well end up being a fruit/vegetable exporter . Hook me up with your friends, will you?

When you are in Pakistan or are about to travel there, private message me. I travel a lot out of the country and am currently abroad, but I am sure we can figure out the logistics... who knows, by that time, I might have my own tunnel farming project off the ground

 

[sparklingway]

Yes, you are right about Gold Crest and Centaurus, but please look at Creek City Karachi, Amma tower (stupid name!) Karachi and stuff like this in Lahore

Karachi embraced apartments decades ago. Just take a look at Guilstan e Jauhar. It's a sea of affordable apartments complexes (albeit many in violation of building codes, cramped corridors, 10ft wide roads, etc). Even the seafront that is being developed today is littered with apartment towers available to the upper middle and middle class. Some of them are really fabulous and well designed. The creek marina side, where land has been reclaimed from the sea, is an entirely different area. It's just high end niche luxury apartments with terrace pools and all that.

Karachi as I said is different from Lahore. Apartments are the way of living and Karachi has been on the rise than on the wide in the past 3 decades.

Could have been managed better, but as I mentioned earlier, due to the fact that we are lucky in terms of having excellent land resources, this is not the end of the world. We need to move towards apartments and more dense housing prior to a significant further expansion of the area that's considered part of Lahore. In this regard, the Ravi on one side, and the Indian border on the other, do provide some pretty specific boundaries.

I humbly disagree. As I mentioned earlier, the outskirts of Lahore are prime agricultural land. Land is being wasted. We might have a lot of available land in Turbat or Zhob, but it is not suitable for agriculture. The agricultural base has been affected by this ruthless expansion and land grabbing. Lahore needs to learn to live in apartments very soon.

Of course we can. There are a couple of very innovative projects for ultra-low cost housing intended for Karachi's outskirts. They have pretty much completed planning for these but there have been funding delays (banks need to come on board) due to the global economic slump. I am sure you will see implementation on these within the next 5 years. And let me tell you, both the high end and the low end will be far better than Navi Mumbai. On the high end, these isolated satellite development like Crescent Bay will be far more attractive. And at the low end, the houses being designed are far cheaper than anything you could get in Mumbai.

I'm guessing you are not entirely familiar with Navi Mumbai and the success associated with it(or maybe our disagreement over this matter makes me think this way). Crescent Bay will be a part of the main Karachi area within a decade (in addition to it being a high end luxury housing locality). Navi Mumbai has been dealt specifically to keep considerable distance from Mumbai and expansion of both cities have been promoted in the opposite directions to keep them at bay from each other.

As for low cost housing, it can promoted by the state by providing tax incentives to real estate developers. Give them, say a 5% tax cut, if half of their construction meets the standard for affordable low-cost housing. It was promoted in the '60s and '70s and it worked (Al Azam Construction and M.Y Corporation). Bahria tried to do it with Awami Villas, but the scale was small compared to their existing projects and the quality was shady compared to their standards. Rehabilitation of the existing slums should be "facilitated" by the state and not done by it in entirety.

Bahria town is quite far away... no?

Precisely my point. Bahria Town being a commercial land development company, seeks to maximize its profit as it hardly gets any undue favors. They have there fair share of controversies (illegal land grabbing, bribes, etc) but they do not get state land at throwaway prices nor are the given special favors, out of the norm and out of the law, as the case is with DHA. Thus, Bahria established itself far away from Lahore and in Rawalpindi (when they started) their development was away from the city as well. At the time they started in Pindi, the city was expanding to the west (towards tarnol and fatehjhang). They changed the game and DHA followed suit.

I hear you, but again, don't worry too much about. And by the way, Mian Mansha has been planning a massive entry into what is now being referred to as "corporate farming", which is really a form of more efficient, more capital intensive farming to increase yields. I read an interview of his a while back where he said this was the new frontier in his opinion. I agree with him... once this higher yield agriculture becomes more mainstream, you will see that ZAB's famous quote about Pakistan having the capability of being the bread basket for all of Asia, will come true.

Corporate farming is an evil for countries like Pakistan. Period.

Corporate farming as it will be implemented in Pakistan, will be a single giant company holding massive land and exploiting peasants and farmers. What is being promoted by fair trade organizations in Africa is the way to go for us. Companies buy from cooperatives. Cooperatives are promoted, farmers are promised a minimum price and they are provided advice, thus crop quality is maintained. Small farmers gain in this method of corporate farming. Corporations exploit people beyond international levels of exploitation in Pakistan as they rub the hands of the authorities to make them look away (if they wanted to look which they don't want anyways).

Provide credit to the farmer, promote soil conservation and bio-intensive farming. Resist commercial seed distribution (small farmers do not have the capital to buy seed every year). Say no to Monsanto and say no to GM crops.

PS:My course thesis is based on the effects of corporate farming on small farmers and the increase in carbon footprint of the everyday vegetable/fruit. Hence, I believe firmly in what I wrote

Somewhat outside the topic, but Cowasjee commenting on the hearing of a case regarding toxic waste disposal in residential areas:-

The CJP stated: “There should be self-accountability by the business community. If a factory owner cannot fulfill the required laws, he should close down the business instead of making profit at the cost of lives….” This is easier said than done. The greed that consumes our upper-income citizens will not allow a reduction in any ‘development’ to benefit the environment even though its ruin adversely affects all of us.

 

[TechLahore]

Good points, sparling way and great discussion... like I said, if you would like to get in touch when you're in Pakistan or if I can help re. the farming discussion we had earlier, please let me know.

 

[Asian.Century]

Lahore needs highrise buildings in gulberg area. Turn walton airport and all surtounding areas into commercial business activities along GT Rd and Gulberg.