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Pakistan deals with its devils

Oh dear me. US action or any immenent action has nothing whatsoever to do with this. As far as their manifesto, you have to look at their actions. Afghan Taliban very rarely attack public. Can't say the same about TTP. As far as their funding goes, Afghan Taliban most likely get their money from drugs and some arabs perhaps. TTP, well they don't have many Afghan friends, so no drugs money from them. You know where I believe and ISI/army believe they get their funding from so I will leave it at that. And again, the public part has been discussed before. You really need to stop going over that same thing again and again that's proven to be a naive argument.

Frankly speaking....unless you were TTP Talib or Haqqani....your knowledge on this subject is none more than mine ....so please get out of this notion that you know something we all dont......
There is nothing that you can "prove" that would make my argument "naive" and yours credible.....we are all throwing out theories....except yours seems a bit far fetched for the people with their heads right (Read the rest of the world)...

Ill let this be my last comment aimed at your post....

If US action had nothing to do with this....Why are the Pakistani's so jittery about the US missions inside Pakistan? especially since your country lacks the "funds and resources" to deal with the same......

You have been proven wrong with Afghan Taliban attacking only the military....in light of the Kabul embassy bombing...

Regarding the "you know who" funding the TTP.....lets save that for hard evidence and less for what you and ISI believe....
 
Didn't you do it in the japans and germany---what made it any different this time!

Japan and Germany were utterly destroyed. Total capitulation. Millions were killed. No neighboring states feasted on the misery. With Iraq and Afghanistan very little was destroyed. Governments led by Iraqis and Afghanis were enabled within a year. What then ensued was Muslim against Muslim civil war and violence. Admittedly the USA underestimated the willingness and capacity of these two societies to destroy themselves, with a lot of help from Muslim outsiders from Iran, Pakistan and worldwide al Qaeda. I agree that the coalition forces should have been twice as many so as provide a better policing. But you should also acknowledge that Muslims, mostly local, were responsible for 90% of the death and destruction, not soldiers from NATO or the international coalition in Iraq. That, too, is a fact. Muslim on Muslim violence for years on end is as big a story here as the initial 120 days of violence by the coalition forces, in both places.
 
You said this-

"Afghan Taliban only attacks military..."

and you've said this-

"Afghan Taliban very rarely attack public."

I have proof that says the afghan taliban KILL AFGHAN CIVILIANS at a rate of 2:1 over ISAF. And that they've often used afghan civilians as human shields. And attacked afghan school girls with acid. And maimed and killed with suicide bombers and IEDs.

This proof is provided to you here-

UNAMA Mid-Year Bulletin On The Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict 2009

Note the following-

"9. A continuing trend seen through 2008 and into the first six months of 2009 is that AGE [Anti-Government Elements] tactics have shifted, from frontal or ambush attacks on PGF [Pro-Government Forces], to insurgent or guerrilla type activities, including asymmetric attacks such as IEDs, VBIEDs, BBIEDs, (that remain responsible for the largest number of civilian deaths), and targeted assassinations.

10. Between January and June 2009, 595 civilian deaths were attributed to AGE activities; 400 of those deaths were the result of indiscriminate IED and suicide attacks. This represents 67% of all deaths attributable to AGEs, or 39.5% of the total 1013 civilians killed in the first half of 2009. AGE operations are frequently undertaken regardless of the impact on civilians in terms of deaths and injuries or destruction of civilian infrastructure. Based on investigation of specific incidents conducted by UNAMA Human Rights, information suggests that AGEs are basing themselves in civilian areas so as to deliberately blur the distinction between combatants and civilians, and as part of what appears to be an active policy aimed at drawing a military response to areas where there is a high likelihood that civilians will be killed or injured. Also of great concern to UNAMA Human Rights, is the frequency by which AGEs conduct attacks in, or against, civilian locations. UNAMA Human Rights continues to document IED attacks carried out on roads used by civilian traffic, residential compounds, and market places. In some areas, UNAMA Human Rights has also noted targeted assassinations of civilians through the use of IEDs, particularly in the South-East."


595 of 1013 civilians killed between January 2009 and June 2009 by the Taliban's hand according to the U.N. Are your math skills good? Mine suggest 59% of all deaths are the afghan taliban's fault.

That tells me you are ignorant of the facts and repeat urban myths which lend comfort. Educate yourself before speaking with such willfully blind certainty.

EDIT: Allow me to add this from paragraph #4 of TRENDS within the document-

"UNAMA Human Right figures indicate that more civilians are being killed by AGEs [Anti-Government Elements] than by PGF [Pro-Government Forces]. In the first six months of 2009, 59% of civilians were killed by AGEs and 30.5% by PGF."

That's a 2:1 difference against the supposedly fire-power crazed ISAF.

You are SOOOO wrong with your assertions. Let me know if you wish for more. I've a study from Human Rights Watch that shows taliban behavior in April 2007. It was just as bad then.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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Frankly speaking....unless you were TTP Talib or Haqqani....your knowledge on this subject is none more than mine ....so please get out of this notion that you know something we all dont......
There is nothing that you can "prove" that would make my argument "naive" and yours credible.....we are all throwing out theories....except yours seems a bit far fetched for the people with their heads right (Read the rest of the world)...
Nothing far fetched dude. Bit of common sense and the knowledge of the area. If you knew where TTP come from (SWA) and who they are surrounded by (Afghan Taliban), and if you knew the demographics and knew that basically TTP are enemy of Afghan Taliban, you wouldn't be making these outrageous statements. Every one of you indians has become an armchair expert on something you know not much on.

Ill let this be my last comment aimed at your post....

If US action had nothing to do with this....Why are the Pakistani's so jittery about the US missions inside Pakistan? especially since your country lacks the "funds and resources" to deal with the same......
Again, no relation to what I am saying. You're bringing something totally off-topic to what I am saying to show your point which anyone with some knowledge of this area's demographics would know is BS.

You have been proven wrong with Afghan Taliban attacking only the military....in light of the Kabul embassy bombing...
Embassy bombing is not the same as attacking public. Further, if Afghan Taliban were intending to attack public they are more than capable of doing it very reguarly. The fact that attacks on public by Taliban are rather rare shows they are not the same as TTP.

Regarding the "you know who" funding the TTP.....lets save that for hard evidence and less for what you and ISI believe....

Not what we believe dude.. we have insider ISI information confirming high quantity of evidence. Nevertheless, that's off-topic but TTP does not get their funding from Afghan Taliban.
 
Hi,

S 2---need to calm down a little bit----. There will be no other war that u s is going to be involved in. Americans don't want the price of gas reaching 200--400 dollars a barrel.

The country is already hurting--reccession maynot be over for a decade now----.

This effort that you are putting fighting pakistan here---why don't you put the same effort on getting the jobs back into the u s that were given away---talk to your congreesman and senator---right now you are on the losing side of the battle----about time you picked up a winning cause.

Forty nation---my foot. Forty black mailed nations---threatend with sanction---forty christian nations killing muslims---over a million in iraq---close to a mkillion in afghanistan.

Respected sir,

Few things comes to the mind after going through your post above,

1. Whilst you put all your thrust on the "forty christian nations killing Muslims", but you choose conveniently to ignore the other thousands of Muslims being killed in Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan and twenty other countries by, surprise, Muslims themselves.

2. Like some had pointed out already, you also choose to ignore the fraction of Muslim, Jew and other religious soldiers of the Collision force.

-We call the above two as tunnel vision syndrome.

3. You seem to have no qualms about earning your livelihood from the devil state, but will leave no stone unturned in branding it the hell on earth.

-We call the above as "Jis thali mein khayein, usi me ***** karein" syndrome. (Translation: Bite off the hand that feeds you).

4. While US is no saint in my books either (for their arrogant foreign policy mainly and trying to solve the peripheral issues by force without actually attacking the root causes), I think pakistan should concentrate on itself for a while, on the past mistakes and let go of the numerous conspiracy theories its pulse revolves around since its inception. 90% of Pakistan's devils are within. When well-educated, learned, intelligent and senior members here can ramble on about "Ghazwa-tul-Hind", one may well imagine the extent of work to be done inside Pakistan, by Pakistan, to bring it back to right path of peace and prosperity.

I sincerely wish the time comes soon when all of pakistan's problems get solved and it return to the path of peace & prosperity.

Thanks
 
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"Provide evidence or shut up."

The evidence has been provided in abundance here...some by your own hand. "Negotiations" and "inaction" suffice to determine that you've conducted interminable talks with an ousted foreign government residing on your lands for eight years and have taken no action otherwise against them.

Your own words are adequate admission of the taliban's presence.

You clearly understood the implications of your admissions at the time they were written. Those men are there. However, when you aren't denying their presence altogether, I've become used to the pleading by you and others of "priorities" and more pressing obligations facing your government. Your dissemblance is disheartening.

Always one or the other but either stifles solid discussion at this point.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
Respected sir,

Few things comes to the mind after going through your post above,

1. Whilst you put all your thrust on the "forty christian nations killing Muslims", but you choose conveniently to ignore the other thousands of Muslims being killed in Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan and twenty other countries by, surprise, Muslims themselves.

2. Like some had pointed out already, you also choose to ignore the fraction of Muslim, Jew and other religious soldiers of the Collision force.

-We call the above two as tunnel vision syndrome.

3. You seem to have no qualms about earning your livelihood from the devil state, but will leave no stone unturned in branding it the hell on earth.

-We call the above as "Jis thali mein khayein, usi me ***** karein" syndrome. (Translation: Bite off the hand that feeds you).

Thanks


Hi,

I don't like to make a personal remark, but you need to have a better understanding of war, an invading christian army and million killed as a result.

Sudan, somalia, yemen are of no comparison to this war in afg and iraq. This is a war forced by the self righteous born again christians, neo cons---this war has been started without any clear goals in mind and how to achieve those goals by millitary standards in the shortest possible time. This war was started without a clear picture of what happened when the target was located---this war was started without the proper resources put in place to ensnare the target.

This war has changed directions many a times to whatever is convenient to the u s of a. They couldn't complete one job---one simple job---the killer of 3000 americans disappeared through tora bora right in front of a miniscule number to spec forces personale and no further efforts were put in force to delay his escape. Indeed the journalists knew where he was---there were more journalists at T B than american soldiers----isn't that a shame for the american generals( chullo bhar pani mein doob kar maer jaiy )

This war is full of deceit and deception by the americans---this war is full of incompetence of the leadership capabilities of the american war machine---this failure wil be the hallmark of shame for the american forces throughout the history of this world through centuries to come.

America can destroy pakistan, afg a thousand times over---but never will be able to change the words in the history books to come---this loss will show as the helo around the flag for centuries and milleniums.
 
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Hi,

I don't like to make a personal remark, but you need to have a better understanding of war, an invading christian army and million killed as a result.

Sudan, somalia, yemen are of no comparison to this war in afg and iraq. This is a war forced by the self righteous born again christians, neo cons---this war has been started without any clear goals in mind and how to achieve those goals by millitary standards in the shortest possible time. This war was started without a clear picture of what happened when the target was located---this war was started without the proper resources put in place to ensnare the target.

This war has changed directions many a times to whatever is convenient to the u s of a. They couldn't complete one job---one simple job---the killer of 3000 americans disappeared through tora bora right in front of a miniscule number to spec forces personale and no further efforts were put in force to delay his escape. Indeed the journalists knew where he was---there were more journalists at T B than american soldiers----isn't that a shame for the american generals( chullo bhar pani mein doob kar maer jaiy )

This war is full of deceit and deception by the americans---this war is full of incompetence of the leadership capabilities of the american war machine---this failure wil be the hallmark of shame for the american forces throughout the history of this world through centuries to come.

America can destroy pakistan, afg a thousand times over---but never will be able to change the words in the history books to come---this loss will show as the helo around the flag for centuries and milleniums.

Hi again,

Few more points:

1. I have no major difference as far as your post above tries to elaborate. However, isn't the same already stated by me in point no.4 of my previous post, which again you chose conveniently not to quote. Please allow me to re-quote the same for the sake of comparison and see where our opinion differs:

While US is no saint in my books either (for their arrogant foreign policy mainly and trying to solve the peripheral issues by force without actually attacking the root causes), I think pakistan should concentrate on itself for a while, on the past mistakes and let go of the numerous conspiracy theories its pulse revolves around since its inception. 90% of Pakistan's devils are within. When well-educated, learned, intelligent and senior members here can ramble on about "Ghazwa-tul-Hind", one may well imagine the extent of work to be done inside Pakistan, by Pakistan, to bring it back to right path of peace and prosperity.

2. I agree that I may have limited knowledge of war, geo-politics, war ethics etc as compared to your learned self, but the BIG questions still remains unanswered to me, aren't we grossly diverting from the topic in hand when we resort to the same old u s of a bashing and other related popular theories, which are abundantly available across every other threads on this forum? Does it actually helps Pakistan in fighting its devils? Which are the bigger devils? The people within, who believes in Ghazwa-tul-Hind and other ancient concepts which varies within every kilometer apart, or the the us of a, hindu bharat, mosad? What devil should the concerned pakistani attack if he sincerely wish to see it move to the path of peace and prosperity? Most importantly what is more important for a pakistani: a peaceful and prosperous pakistan or a non-realistic muslim ummah (Khilafat)? Are they first a pakistani or a muslim?

3. "Gustakhi Maaf. Choti muh, Badi baat" fom my end. However, I firmly believe that till the time the pakistani will choose to be a muslim first and then a pakistani, the peace will never come back. Simple reason being, there has never been a consensus on the part of various fractions of muslims on the concept and modalities of the most sought after ummah. That has been the case almost since its inception.

4. This is a different age all-together. This is the age of nano-technology, gene mapping, space colonies and likes of it. Those people who are caught within Ram temple, Ghazwa-tul-Hind, Cast-ism, Racialism, Khilafat-ism are the ones who had missed the bus and the ones drawing us back from riding the horse of wisdom, development, humanitarianism, peace and real spiritual upliftment.

5. If someone wants to utilize their enthusiasm and passion into something really close to Iswar/ Allah/ God, it should be directed towards other nobble causes like upliftment of the the non-privileged ones rather then some false notions of Hinduism, Islam-ism and Christian-ism etc.
 
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"Provide evidence or shut up."

The evidence has been provided in abundance here...some by your own hand. "Negotiations" and "inaction" suffice to determine that you've conducted interminable talks with an ousted foreign government residing on your lands for eight years and have taken no action otherwise against them.
No evidence has been provided here - if it has then where is it?

Either provide it now or accept that you and your government are liars - its simple.

As for 'negotiations and inaction' that is not evidence. Negotiations, peace deals etc. were an important part of Pakistan's policy of dealing with all insurgent groups in FATA and the NWFP. It was a policy pursued because of political and military constraints, and it wasa policy pursued with both sets of Taliban, those threatening the Pakistani state as well as those not threatening the Pakistani State, which debunks your argument that somehow special treatment was meted out to the Nazirs and Bahadurs so they could wage war on Afghanistan.

Your own words are adequate admission of the taliban's presence.

You clearly understood the implications of your admissions at the time they were written. Those men are there. However, when you aren't denying their presence altogether, I've become used to the pleading by you and others of "priorities" and more pressing obligations facing your government. Your dissemblance is disheartening.

Always one or the other but either stifles solid discussion at this point.
My 'own words' are an admission of nothing except that Pakistan pursued a policy of dialog, negotiations and peace deals with the various Taliban factions in FATA and NWFP. You didn't like the policy? Tough luck. It wasn't your call to make.

In hindsight was it a flawed policy? Yes, but again, not your call to make, and pursuing a flawed policy is not 'evidence of support for terrorism' - it is flawed policy. And when it comes ot flawed policies and 'allowing Taliban groups to wage war on other states', your own nation has now done much the same in ceding North Eastern Afghan provinces to the Taliban by withdrawing from them. Qari Ziaur Rehman and possibly Faqir Mohammed (Bajaur) and Mullah Fazlullah(Swat) are based out of there and conducting attacks in FATA. Bajaur has seen a steep increase in violence since the US ceded that territory to the Taliban.

Your logic would dictate then that this isn't just flawed policy, but US complicity in terrorism in Pakistan - the withrdawals from that North Eastern territory done precisely to encourage, and provide space to, the Taliban to wage war in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

So again, either provide the evidence that Pakistan has supported the Taliban in Afghanistan or accept you have nothing and that you and your government and people like Ahmed Rashid are liars for spreading this mythology and shut up.

Couldn't get any simpler -EVIDENCE.

Come to think of it, whether you accept you and your government are liars or not is irrelevant, if you cannot provide the evidence to back up your allegations then there can be no other option.
 
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Pakistan deals with its devils

By Zahid U Kramet

LAHORE - Pakistan and the United States are apparently not on the same page in regard to the Afghan Taliban, particularly insofar as the Haqqani network in Afghanistan is concerned.

Washington clearly sees Sirajuddin Haqqani as the enemy. Pakistan sees him as a possible ally in the exit of the US from the war theater beginning in 2011. The US views Haqqani's fallback position (read sanctuary) in Pakistan as a direct threat to the Western coalition in Afghanistan and has warned of expanded drone strikes into Pakistani territory if it did not move more aggressively against him. Pakistan's reactions to the threat have ranged from sullen silence to outright anger expressed by senior establishment officials who consider Haqqani key to any reconciliation process.

Pakistan's army chief, General Ashfaq Kiani, made no bones about his reservations on the subject when he responded to US exhortations "to do more" by saying that he had his hands full countering the al-Qaeda-inspired Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and that the Pakistan army was in no position to open another front. But there seemed to be a level of understanding on the common threat posed by the Afghan Taliban when The Washington Post quoted a Pakistani intelligence official as having said, "The Pakistani Taliban are the clear and present danger. They are what matters most. Once we are done with them, we will go after the Haqqani network" - signaling that no hard and fast lines had been drawn on the issue.

Nevertheless, Pakistan could have reason to be ambivalent on fueling animosity with Haqqani's network, as it remains gravely concerned about the expansion of Indian influence in Afghanistan and fears encirclement by India after the US withdrawal begins in 2011. Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, attempted recently to allay these fears when he agreed to the need of addressing the Kashmir dispute (the main bone of contention between the two neighbors) for stability in the region. But with there being no signs of a breakthrough on this, Pakistan feels it would be an error to close the door on such former "strategic assets" as Haqqani, irrespective of the complications this presents at the moment.

Pakistan may be living in a time warp. From all the evidence available, Haqqani is as committed to expelling US forces from Afghanistan as any other branch of the Taliban. On this, an expert on al-Qaeda, Syed Saleem Shahzad, Pakistan bureau chief for Asia Times Online, has no doubts. He contends that sooner rather than later, Pakistan will have to re-evaluate Haqqani as a strategic asset in the broader context of the "war on terror". He believes Pakistan could come off second-best as the voice to be heard by the Taliban insurgents, with al-Qaeda looking beyond Pakistan's borders, toward India to its east, the Central Asian republics to Afghanistan's north and, more recently, towards Yemen, to merchandise its message of a global caliphate.

The US is only too aware of this and has geared itself to act against further al-Qaeda encroachment in the volatile ****** region, with President Barack Obama therefore opting for a 30,000-troop surge in Afghanistan. At the same time, there has been repeated admittance that without Pakistan's unqualified support in the "war on terror", the US and its allies could end up at the losing end of the stick.

United States Vice President Joseph Biden reaffirmed this when he said in an MSNBC interview recently that "defeating al-Qaeda and stabilizing Pakistan" are America's main strategic interests. At the same time, he identified Pakistan as the flashpoint, as he felt that al-Qaeda was more entrenched there than in Afghanistan, but he said the US would provide more assistance to Pakistan to counter al-Qaeda's growing influence in this country.

But Pakistan has more than one devil to deal with. The ruling Pakistan People's Party is under pressure, with the Supreme Court ruling against former president Pervez Musharraf's National Reconciliation Ordinance, which sought to provide amnesty to a number of PPP stalwarts for past alleged misdemeanors. Foremost among them is the PPP's co-chairman and incumbent president, Asif Ali Zardari, who appears to have America's confidence. Zardari is not as popular with Pakistan's military establishment, and the burning question now is whether or not the judiciary will go along with the constitutional stipulations that immunize a president holding office against past cases registered against him.

Zardari suspects it will not. In a public address on December 27, the second anniversary of his wife Benazir Bhutto's assassination, and repeatedly since, the president lamented that there was a conspiracy afoot to derail democracy through the country's courts. The US Central Command chief, General David Petraeus, however, certifies that Pakistan's military would play no role in this. Testifying before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Petraeus said he had been assured by senior military officials that the Pakistan army under Kiani was not interested in disrupting civilian rule. But a US State Department official, also testifying before said committee, admitted to tension between Pakistan's elected representatives and its military establishment.

Tension does exist. Pakistan's military commands the activities of the Inter-Services Intelligence, the country's premier intelligence service, and thus feels it is infinitely better equipped to tackle Pakistan's security issues (both internal and external) than the country's elected contingent.

However, the US seems to be more inclined toward blanket democratic management of Pakistan's national affairs. And it has leverage. The US funneled close to US$10 billion in military aid to Pakistan between fiscal 2001 and 2009 and has sanctioned $1.6 billion for fiscal year 2010 under the Coalition Support Fund, along with $700 million under the Counter-insurgency Capability Fund. But even that may not be enough to tackle Pakistan's security issues.

Zardari is alert to this reality and sounded fully supportive of the Pakistani military's views on the subject. In a letter to Obama revealed to The Washington Post by anonymous sources in December, Zardari spelled out that the bill for military operations in the Swat Valley alone had come to $2.5 billion, to suggest that the allocated sums for the "war on terror" in Pakistan were grossly inadequate.

The December 28 strike in the heart of Pakistan's densely populated financial capital and, significantly, principal port city, Karachi, substantiated this. The suicide-cum-arson attack left 45 dead and scores injured, with 2,500 shops gutted and a reported 10,000 people jobless. Hardly had Pakistan time to catch its breath when this was followed by the as yet unspoken-for car-bomb attack in faraway Lakki Marwat, close by the restive Waziristan territories, that reportedly killed 96, mostly young people, either playing or watching a volleyball game.

The South Waziristan-based TTP commander, Asmatullah Shaheen, is reported to have claimed responsibility for the Karachi attack, but doubt remains about the authenticity of this claim, as seldom has Shaheen acted as a spokesman for the Taliban. Moreover, as the Shaheen testimonial was delivered over the telephone to news agencies from an undisclosed location, it remains suspect.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, in his media address from Gwadur, Balochistan province, to inaugurate a section of the Makran Costal Highway, referred to the attack as a "foreign agenda" to destabilize Pakistan. Interior Minister Rehman Malik took up the refrain from Karachi with his statement reading the hand of "foreign elements cannot be ruled out".

Zardari made his apprehensions on the "foreign agenda" known in the three-page letter to Obama when he "repeatedly referred to Pakistan's core interests, unresolved historical conflicts and conventional imbalances", according to The Times of India. He urged Obama to propel Pakistan's "neighbors" (read India) toward diplomatic engagement. He has since repeated the message in Pakistan's press.

But Shahzad is convinced it is al-Qaeda's game to expand the war into India with more proxy operations along the lines of the Mumbai attacks of 2008, as bringing India and Pakistan eyeball to eyeball again would leave the field wide open for the terrorist organization to spread chaos throughout South Asia.

With this in view, the challenging question now is why the Indian army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, would want to raise a host of devils by issuing a statement to the effect that India had the capacity to fight a two-front war against both Pakistan and China - and bring it to a satisfactory conclusion in 96 hours.

Zahid U Kramet, a Lahore-based political analyst specializing in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, is the founder of the research and analysis website the Asia Despatch.

(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan
:angry:








Your are quite right Pakistan deals with devil but you forget that to deal with devil(Indian Agression) its necessary to have freindship with other Devil.
 
America can destroy pakistan, afg a thousand times over---but never will be able to change the words in the history books to come---this loss will show as the helo around the flag for centuries and milleniums.
I think that's about the most fatuous sentence I've ever read at PDF! Way to go, MastanKhan!
 
"Inaction" against whom? "Negotiations" with whom? Afghan taliban of course.

They've been on your lands and still are. Your words. Your description. Eight years by choice. Case closed.

BTW, "Negotiate" with those of an ousted foreign government? What's up with that? Since when does a country negotiate its sovereignty? Your sovereignty is either inviolate or not.

I say not.

Thus PREDATOR.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
We are paying for our own mistakes, but not in the way the article makes it out to be. The article takes the usual one-dimensional view. I see is quite differently. We're paying for being too trusting towards those who considered and treated us as "strategically located allies", we're paying for the years of dictatorships, we're paying for electing corrupt officials, we're paying for bending backwards for good relations with our neighbors, we're paying for not building our economy, we're paying for getting involved in others Wars and so on. It's never a single thing that leads to tragedies, it's many things that fail.

That said, Pakistan is not a tragedy. And it won't be. We plan on being a thorn in the backside of everyone who has turned against us for centuries to come.


I'm sorry, if lack of crime is your measure of peace, then there are no peaceful countries in the World. A decade ago, people were not dying in planted bomb attacks or suicide bomb attacks or drone strikes every single day. A decade ago, people were not afraid to go to large public gatherings. A decade ago, hundreds of thousands of people were not displaced in their own country. I'm sorry, all your country gave the region was war and more war.

People were dying in the '80s in response to the Soviet invasion of afg. I believe the U.S. helped drive the Soviets out, right?

The_Pacifist.
 
Americans call Pakistan a migraine, British call Pakistan the haven of terrorists and you have enough cheeks to come and complain when devil is described as devil? WAR for PEACE? Is that you have given this region? How many millions have lost their lives in Iraq? How many in Afghanistan? How many in Pakistan and in the name of what? PEACE? Peace for whom? Humans or Americans? Its time to see the mirror my friend. Just see your real image and Identify the angel of peace is infact the devil of death. Does that hurt? mustn't be hurting more than how 100s of Pakistanis and Afghanistans feel every day becase of loosing their brothers, sisters, children and their own lives. FEEL IT, YOU deserve medals for terrorising whole south Asia. The biggest Terrorists are you America, England and NATO, the freaking sick skull peace selling butchers.

The invasion of Iraq is inexcusable, and history will judge this injustice accordingly.

However, perhaps OBL misjudged the response of the US when he decided to attack NY, especially when the US had an idiot in office. It was the perfect excuse to invade afg. Why would anyone attack the US in that manner and not expect such a response? History shows that the US is very capable of hitting back, right?

Also, I believe that the Taliban was given the oppurtunity to turn over OBL or face an invasion. They made their choice to provide him sanctuary before and after the attack on NY.

The_Pacifist.

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant"-Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, who directed the attack on Pearl Harbor (The quote is from a movie, however. He never said it).
 
Apart from all the emotional rhetoric, why don't you just come face to face to fight a war instead of hiding in Afghanistan and instigating covert operations from across border? I'm sure the Pakistanis are more than willing to give you a war that you so badly want. Why act like a coward?

PS. You're not a military professional. You don't even qualify for an amateur position. At least, the way you behave is certainly not professional.

It's a Guerrilla war, isn't it? If you notice, the Taliban took over afg by fighting a conventional war. They rolled in Kabul sitting on their tanks. However, when they faced the US military they switched to fight a Guerrilla war. Are the Taliban acting like cowards now? Perhaps they have read sun tzu.

Is suicide bombing cowardice or bravery?

The_Pacifist.
 

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