Pakistan angers Afghans by suggesting Taliban share power - minister

[illusion8]

It doesn't matter what GOI thinks or Russia spits or Iran $hits.

As I have already mentioned. The 3 most powerful entities in Afghanistan are NATO, Kabuli Government, and Talib@stards aka Doha shura (As you know Talib@stards have their embassy in Doha Qatar for many many years now)

Please avoid non-serious comments like ISI Dis, and ISI dat. It is childish.

ISI offices have CIA reps embedded all over the place. Whatever goes on in the halls of ISI happens in conjunction of CIA.

So quit being a 2-bit TV honcho who is murdering reality just to sell worthless TV show.

Thank you

and I thought I could get into a serious discussion with you.

you are so dumb to even not be able to make out that I, the GOI, Russians and the Iranians are all corroborating the same thing that you are saying and that is that the Afghans need to decide and talk on their own and the process needs to be an Afghan led one and not an ISI induced talk where the Taliban are refusing to acknowledge the legitimate Karzai Govt or the high peace council.

 

[FaujHistorian]

:.... not an ISI induced talk where the Taliban are refusing to acknowledge the legitimate Karzai Govt or the high peace council.

If Talib@stards want to talk to Kharazai, ISI cannot stop them
If Talib@stards DO NOT want to talk to Kharazai, ISI cannot make them


Please let go of this Indian fetish with ISI.


Thank you

 

[Jungibaaz]

and I thought I could get into a serious discussion with you.

you are so dumb to even not be able to make out that I, the GOI, Russians and the Iranians are all corroborating the same thing that you are saying and that is that the Afghans need to decide and talk on their own and the process needs to be an Afghan led one and not an ISI induced talk where the Taliban are refusing to acknowledge the legitimate Karzai Govt or the high peace council.

ISI has been involved with the effort against Al Qaeda since the very early days of the war.
I'm talking about, before ground combat ops started.

Now, just because the Afghan taliban choose not to attack pakistan does not mean that Pakistan controls them.
In fact, Mullah Omar has very little to do with ISI, he's a very cautious person, never showed his face in public, he's a ghost.
He's only known to have come to Pakistan once, that too only in remote border region, and to seek medical assistance during the war with the Soviets.

What goes on in Afghanistan is not our responsibility, equally, Karzai and the US cannot blame Pakistan's ISI or a few Haqqani tribesmen for all the failures or challenges they meet.

 

[illusion8]

ISI has been involved with the effort against Al Qaeda since the very early days of the war.
I'm talking about, before ground combat ops started.

Now, just because the Afghan taliban choose not to attack pakistan does not mean that Pakistan controls them.
In fact, Mullah Omar has very little to do with ISI, he's a very cautious person, never showed his face in public, he's a ghost.
He's only known to have come to Pakistan once, that too only in remote border region, and to seek medical assistance during the war with the Soviets.

What goes on in Afghanistan is not our responsibility, equally, Karzai and the US cannot blame Pakistan's ISI or a few Haqqani tribesmen for all the failures or challenges they meet.

Now this is a first, are you distancing Pakistan away from Mullah Omar and the Afghan Taliban and saying that Pakistan does not support them?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Now this is a first, are you distancing Pakistan away from Mullah Omar and the Afghan Taliban and saying that Pakistan does not support them?

We did support them for a while.
But that isn't the case anymore.

There may be elements in Pakistan who fully support the taliban, but government and security forces are not involved.
And to blame us for what goes on in Afghanistan is false.

 

[illusion8]

We did support them for a while.
But that isn't the case anymore.

There may be elements in Pakistan who fully support the taliban, but government and security forces are not involved.
And to blame us for what goes on in Afghanistan is false.

and, when the Afghan Government, the 26 nation ISAF, and the Pentagon goes to town blaming Pakistan for whatever goes on in Afghanistan, why is that?

Pentagon Report: Pakistan Constantly ‘Undermining’ Afghan War -- News from Antiwar.com

KANKASH: Karzai Blames Pakistan's ISI and Army For Destabilising Afghanistan

PressTV - ISAF accuses Pakistan of supporting Afghan militants

what possibly could be their motive? could it not be possible that this is true after all....

 

[Jungibaaz]

and, when the Afghan Government, the 26 nation ISAF, and the Pentagon goes to town blaming Pakistan for whatever goes on in Afghanistan, why is that?

Pentagon Report: Pakistan Constantly ‘Undermining’ Afghan War -- News from Antiwar.com

KANKASH: Karzai Blames Pakistan's ISI and Army For Destabilising Afghanistan

PressTV - ISAF accuses Pakistan of supporting Afghan militants

what possibly could be their motive? could it not be possible that this is true after all....

I've read most of the material regarding this view that is being presented by ISAF/NATO and Afghans.
It states, two sources of evidence for what it calls 'double game' played by Pakistan:

The first being, sanctuaries in our North West that were immediately occupied after invasion and also citing our support for associated elements during the 80's and the 90's.

Not a single shred of evidence to do with our involvement today. These accusations lack validity and are rather hypocritical.
I'm sure you don't need me to explain, even a novice knows that those 2 points they raised do not at all justify all the anti-Pak rhetoric that we hear.

Why are they all against us now?
Well, ask yourself, where were all these accusations before 2007/8?
They were understated for sure, some people raised caution over our history with the taliban and lawlessness in the north West.But nothing quite to this degree.

So why are they all against us now?
Partly because the war is a failure, if there's one thing the US needs right now, it's a scapegoat to appease public opinion back home. That is why after OBL raid, suddenly the last 30 years of war guilt have been dumped n us, why suddenly this group the Haqqani network that no-one has ever heard of is to blame for all the troubles in Afghanistan. And also, we did not commit ourselves to fighting the Afghan taliban, mostly because they are not in our lands, but also because they will be here when the US leaves and were not to be part of with war in the first place.

from what little debate I've had with you, I urge you not to fall for such cheap tricks by those who wish to use us as a scapegoat. The above links are made for the clueless audiences in the West to digest, not us.

 

[illusion8]

I've read most of the material regarding this view that is being presented by ISAF/NATO and Afghans.
It states, two sources of evidence for what it calls 'double game' played by Pakistan:

The first being, sanctuaries in our North West that were immediately occupied after invasion and also citing our support for associated elements during the 80's and the 90's.

Not a single shred of evidence to do with our involvement today. These accusations lack validity and are rather hypocritical.
I'm sure you don't need me to explain, even a novice knows that those 2 points they raised do not at all justify all the anti-Pak rhetoric that we hear.

Why are they all against us now?
Well, ask yourself, where were all these accusations before 2007/8?
They were understated for sure, some people raised caution over our history with the taliban and lawlessness in the north West.But nothing quite to this degree.

So why are they all against us now?
Partly because the war is a failure, if there's one thing the US needs right now, it's a scapegoat to appease public opinion back home. That is why after OBL raid, suddenly the last 30 years of war guilt have been dumped n us, why suddenly this group the Haqqani network that no-one has ever heard of is to blame for all the troubles in Afghanistan. And also, we did not commit ourselves to fighting the Afghan taliban, mostly because they are not in our lands, but also because they will be here when the US leaves and were not to be part of with war in the first place.

from what little debate I've had with you, I urge you not to fall for such cheap tricks by those who wish to use us as a scapegoat. The above links are made for the clueless audiences in the West to digest, not us.

And, you realllly believe that all these countries don't have the guts to accept the fact that they could not exterminate the Taliban? and that all those 12 years they could not investigate or come out with the reasons for that failure? The pentagon of all people do strenuous research and spying and you think that Pakistan is being blamed without proof?.

They know exactly who's the culprit.

 

[Jungibaaz]

And, you realllly believe that all these countries don't have the guts to accept the fact that they could not exterminate the Taliban? and that all those 12 years they could not investigate or come out with the reasons for that failure? The pentagon of all people do strenuous research and spying and you think that Pakistan is being blamed without proof?.

Yes.

They lost from day one, the G.W Bush said 'You are either with us, or against us.':
they lost the war.

They know exactly who's the culprit.

With regards to what you are implying, again...

I disagree,
The US has not yet come to terms wit the illegal war they waged in Iraq, and you expect something like that for Afghanistan?

 

[FaujHistorian]

and, when the Afghan Government, the 26 nation ISAF, and the Pentagon goes to town blaming Pakistan for whatever goes on in Afghanistan, why is that?

Pentagon Report: Pakistan Constantly ‘Undermining’ Afghan War -- News from Antiwar.com

KANKASH: Karzai Blames Pakistan's ISI and Army For Destabilising Afghanistan

PressTV - ISAF accuses Pakistan of supporting Afghan militants

what possibly could be their motive? could it not be possible that this is true after all....

Afghanistan is a complicated project that has tested every last ounce of strengths from all the parties involved. Thus the strongest of allies could get frustrated.

Even US-UK mother of all alliances have been tested to the max.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, every Tom dick, Shanker and Abdullah knows Islamism has made many among Pakistani public as staunch anti-US. But to use the extremist elements in the public in order to malign the pro-US Pakistanis is the worst possible way to hurt US interests. But Indians keep on doing the same fing $hit all the while claiming to be the biggest todies of the US. Talk about speaking and f@rting from the two sides.

It is pathetic that an Indian would lap up anti-US propaganda from sites like anti-war.com or epitome of truth aka Pisstv.

It is even more pathetic that an Indian Hindu will suck on Islamist propaganda as if it was home-made burfi.

What a shameful attempt by an otherwise sensible poster.

Sadly.

 

[illusion8]

Afghanistan is a complicated project that has tested every last ounce of strengths from all the parties involved. Thus the strongest of allies could get frustrated.

Even US-UK mother of all alliances have been tested to the max.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, every Tom dick, Shanker and Abdullah knows Islamism has made many among Pakistani public as staunch anti-US. But to use the extremist elements in the public in order to malign the pro-US Pakistanis is the worst possible way to hurt US interests. But Indians keep on doing the same fing $hit all the while claiming to be the biggest todies of the US. Talk about speaking and f@rting from the two sides.

It is pathetic that an Indian would lap up anti-US propaganda from sites like anti-war.com or epitome of truth aka Pisstv.

It is even more pathetic that an Indian Hindu will suck on Islamist propaganda as if it was home-made burfi.

What a shameful attempt by an otherwise sensible poster.

Sadly.

Hmmmm... Where have I seen this load of cr@p before? .....oh yes!!!, from you - and from practically every post you post - or at best the second one, which seems to be your standard retort. And, let me tell you the reason for it - you have a one track mind and you seem limited by the things you can pull out from the top of your head.

This Indian - Hindu - pathetic blah blah - are falling for Islamist propaganda blah blah is getting stale, bother getting some new material?

 

[FaujHistorian]

This Indian - Hindu - pathetic blah blah - are falling for Islamist propaganda blah blah is getting stale, bother getting some new material?

you know the sad thing is that, your posts are are so prejudiced that you don't even realize them.

Shamefully.

 

[MilSpec]

Yes.

They lost from day one, the G.W Bush said 'You are either with us, or against us.':
they lost the war.

Or did they, I think US has achieved the needed strategic interests, and now will expand to thier secondary goals of containment of the area.

US interests in the region have stretched farther than the AQ/taliban... there is much to unfold yet. People excited about 2014 do not realize conflict is going to be bigger than ever, and Pakistan will unfortunately pay a heavy price due to it's golden location.

 

[FaujHistorian]

People excited about 2014 do not realize conflict is going to be bigger than ever, and Pakistan will unfortunately pay a heavy price due to it's golden location.

It could be.

But it may not.

USA may remove ground troops. But it will keep the air-assets and especially drones in the area.

At the moment they are using a fleet of about 20 drones in Pak-Af theater.

They can easily increase that to 100 or even more. that means no place for AQ goons to hide.

Drones are cheap, and extremely effective.

Pakistani bases will remain open and so will the logistics for all the US ops in the area.

USA doesn't care much about an ordinary Talib@stard in the region.

they are OK as long as they have support from Pakistani army and Afghanistani army.

For this they have already allocated 4-6 billion a year.


Those dreaming of major wars in the areas may be disappointed after all.


peace

 

[Jungibaaz]

Or did they, I think US has achieved the needed strategic interests, and now will expand to thier secondary goals of containment of the area.

US interests in the region have stretched farther than the AQ/taliban... there is much to unfold yet. People excited about 2014 do not realize conflict is going to be bigger than ever, and Pakistan will unfortunately pay a heavy price due to it's golden location.

Oh of course.
Much of this was and what went on is a result of a select few in the US to get rich off the war, the MIC, their lobbyists, and their sponsored politicians made a killing. If we consider the profit motive, this war was a complete success, sold well to the masses thanks to the stupidity of some who call themselves Muslims.

But as for the 'real' job in Afghanistan and Iraq, failure (so far) for the former and partial success, but too high a cost and a change of motives for the latter

This Indian - Hindu - pathetic blah blah - are falling for Islamist propaganda blah blah is getting stale, bother getting some new material?

Buddy, you're missing the point that he was trying to make.