New strategy needed for co-existence

[anon45]

Nuke war is such, when someone strikes another, he should make it sure that there would be less possibility of retaliation from the opposite side.

China is in a vulnerable condition in this regard. If China wants to survive in a nuke showdown with US, China has to be capable of destroying US completely. Even if Alaska is left, it alone can make US survive.

I think twelve 500 kt SLBMs are nothing given the larger landmass US has to survive nuke strikes. China's nuclear arsenal needs to give an assurance to the nation.

I also think, no matter what, US will turn to nuke war.

US and China have roughly the same landmass sizes, If China can survive nuke war why wouldnt the US?

Well moot point, if things get to a nuke showdown then both US and China have screwed up royally somewhere along the line.

 

[Aeon]

US won't be able to pull off a nuclear war with China without getting the many countries around the globe that benefit immensely from China - royally pi$$ed off. Including Russia. And I heard they've got a whole bunch of nukes ready and waiting to be delivered.

 

[below_freezing]

US won't be able to pull off a nuclear war with China without getting the many countries around the globe that benefit immensely from China - royally pi$$ed off. Including Russia. And I heard they've got a whole bunch of nukes ready and waiting to be delivered.

depends. if the US is backed into a corner who knows what they can do. maybe they'll decide that 1/3 of their population and the future of their country is worth destroying china if they feel threatened. its like a dog, if you push it too hard it'll bite you back, doesn't matter if you shoot it later.

 

[challenger]

depends. if the US is backed into a corner who knows what they can do. maybe they'll decide that 1/3 of their population and the future of their country is worth destroying china if they feel threatened. its like a dog, if you push it too hard it'll bite you back, doesn't matter if you shoot it later.

Below,

Note it. Indian Army Chief himself made a statement. I think, it is a signal india is sending to China that india is prepared for a nuclear showdown with China.

"Similarly", he said, "we have a rising China, both economically and militarily. Although we have CBMs in place, although we have a very stable border, yet we have a border dispute."

"We should have a great amount of conventional capability to function in a conventional conflagration and yet be prepared to function in a nuclear backdrop," he said.

Pakistan, China irritants for India: Army chief - The Times of India

Pentagon will use indian nuke establishment for its preemptive strikes on China.

 

[footmarks]

Pentagon will use indian nuke establishment for its preemptive strikes on China.

India, S. Korea, Japan & may be Australia too.US would want to engage China through multiple fronts in case of a war to minimize the damage on its soil. But why would anyone like to indulge in the fight between two superpowers? Nothing to gain.

India especially would not like to get involved in such war. India is not a part of NATO, has not yet taken any difinite stand for or against lobbying towards US. Inspite of clear gains that we will get by siding with US, we have so far not shown any serious intent to be an US ally. China is equally important to India. China is not an enemy, and US is not a freind either.

 

[sensenreason]

There are four ways for US to 'contain' China - Direct, Indirect, Proxy & Attritional

US has never shown any inclination for direct conflict with nations that have nuclear arsenals etc. I doubt if US will ever risk losing its remaining glitter against an enemy its unable to even gauge the capabilities of.

Indirect conflict such as in Taiwan, North Korea, Iran remains an outside possibility but given the Iraq, Afghanistan experience its not going to get bipartisan support. So the ability of US to launch a strike against Iran gets limited with time..given the ability of Iran to foster trouble close to Israel and fortify air defences and safeguard nuclear facilities.Mind you how this will impact China directly is a moot point.

Proxy war ie wherein Israel does the dirty work or is done by some insurgents inside of Iran is a surely a possibilty or elsewhere in the region.I must add that India will never be asked or if its asked agree to be used as the launchpad of a proxy against china. Ofcourse, India will align with powers that provide it some safeguards against its percieved weaknesses and threats from China.

Last but not the least is the attritional containment which uses economic (currency, sanctions..etc) and other means to reduce Chinese power will surely become more visible and active..

 

[file12345]

WTH china only has 160 nukes.Come on guys even we probably have over a 100.

 

[Aeon]

depends. if the US is backed into a corner who knows what they can do. maybe they'll decide that 1/3 of their population and the future of their country is worth destroying china if they feel threatened. its like a dog, if you push it too hard it'll bite you back, doesn't matter if you shoot it later.

Attacking China means condemning all the countries that depend on it for serious economic impact, turmoil, or even disaster. The list can even include the likes of Japan, India, South Korea, as where else will they get a chance to make money off of selling their products to a billion Chinese consumers' increasing purchasing power, or, to get relatively cheap goods from for their own country's needs? Not to mention Russia with their new modernization drive & need for investment/development, i.e. the recent upping of bilateral ties & cooperation established between Russia & China. So, if US brazenly engages in nuclear conflict with China, it is almost like an indirect attack on all the countries that benefit from China, including Russia (the country with the largest nuclear stockpile I believe?). Plus, how is Russia going to tolerate additional presence of American troops in China right below it? They don't even like them in the CARs.

Russia will know very well if it lets China fall, then itself will be next in line in the eyes of US, which it knows all too well from the past experience of Cold War era. Sans China, Russia will be alone, and much more easily made to fall. So Russia is really not going to take this laying down lightly. In fact, if things do start to escalate a bit too much, I suspect there will be attempts made by Russia to ensure reducing the likelihood of conflict between US & China for reconciliation, or to simply ward off the US from attacking China.

So, if that all doesn't work out, then it will most certainly be in Russian interest, as China is nuking away 1/3 of the US population, to nuke away 99% of the remaining 2/3 so as not to be under severe US threat later on.

I guess in the meantime China had better be upping her nuclear arsenal from 1000 to 10000.

 

[sensenreason]

Attacking China means condemning all the countries that depend on it for serious economic impact, turmoil, or even disaster. The list can even include the likes of Japan, India, South Korea, as where else will they get a chance to make money off of selling their products to a billion Chinese consumers' increasing purchasing power, or, to get relatively cheap goods from for their own country's needs? Not to mention Russia with their new modernization drive & need for investment/development, i.e. the recent upping of bilateral ties & cooperation established between Russia & China. So, if US brazenly engages in nuclear conflict with China, it is almost like an indirect attack on all the countries that benefit from China, including Russia (the country with the largest nuclear stockpile I believe?). Plus, how is Russia going to tolerate additional presence of American troops in China right below it? They don't even like them in the CARs.

Russia will know very well if it lets China fall, then itself will be next in line in the eyes of US, which it knows all too well from the past experience of Cold War era. Sans China, Russia will be alone, and much more easily made to fall. So Russia is really not going to take this laying down lightly. In fact, if things do start to escalate a bit too much, I suspect there will be attempts made by Russia to ensure reducing the likelihood of conflict between US & China for reconciliation, or to simply ward off the US from attacking China.

So, if that all doesn't work out, then it will most certainly be in Russian interest, as China is nuking away 1/3 of the US population, to nuke away 99% of the remaining 2/3 so as not to be under severe US threat later on.

I guess in the meantime China had better be upping her nuclear arsenal from 1000 to 10,000.

Im not in favor of conflict and agree with your sentiment about avoiding war but for the reasons opposite to what you have stated. China is an exporter ie the seller and the countries named and not named are all importers of goods from China..ie buyers. China has more to lose from us than vice versa except US, who depends on China to fund its deficit (ie by importing huge #'s from China). The trade balance is in favor of China, however in terms of jobs and markets..the loss will purely be Chinese.

 

[Aeon]

Im not in favor of conflict and agree with your sentiment about avoiding war but for the reasons opposite to what you have stated. China is an exporter ie the seller and the countries named and not named are all importers of goods from China..ie buyers. China has more to lose from us than vice versa except US, who depends on China to fund its deficit (ie by importing huge #'s from China). The trade balance is in favor of China, however in terms of jobs and markets..the loss will purely be Chinese.

As I said, Russia is also depending on China for investment & modernization project. China is investing & building infrastructure in many countries besides Russia. Yes, the trade balance is in favor of China but other countries benefit in terms of cheaper goods & Chinese investment & projects in their countries. Take out China from the equation, then the current & future life of many countries will become much harder. Exactly the kind of thing the US might want to thoroughly assert worldwide dominance.

Btw, hypothetically speaking if US manages to destroy Russia & China, then it will no longer have much interest or respect for India, and view it with eyes like it would view just any other country, looking to subjugate it as thoroughly as possible. Needles to say, with the aforementioned accomplished, it will have absolutely NO problem doing so to INDIA. Net result, the world situation will simply have gone a full turn from (British) Raj 1 to (American) Raj 2.

 

[challenger]

As I said, Russia is also depending on China for investment & modernization project. China is investing & building infrastructure in many countries besides Russia. Yes, the trade balance is in favor of China but other countries benefit in terms of cheaper goods & Chinese investment & projects in their countries. Take out China from the equation, then the current & future life of many countries will become much harder. Exactly the kind of thing the US might want to thoroughly assert worldwide dominance.

Btw, hypothetically speaking if US manages to destroy Russia & China, then it will no longer have much interest or respect for India, and view it with eyes like it would view just any other country, looking to subjugate it as thoroughly as possible. Needles to say, with the aforementioned accomplished, it will have absolutely NO problem doing so. Net result, the world situation will simply have gone a full turn from (British) Raj 1 to (American) Raj 2.

That is the new world order Pentagon is proposing. An Anglo Saxon Empire at the cost of China.

 

[Aeon]

That is the new world order Pentagon is proposing. An Anglo Saxon Empire at the cost of China.

Hmm.. Well it won't be in Russia's survival interest to let China fall. It remains to be seen how it plays out. India though needs to realize one of the reasons they are being fed is so they can be used against China (which in turn will hurt Russia, their long-time ally - how ironic). Either India gets destroyed in the process of being used against China, or the US will simply overpower and destroy it later on by itself - veerrry easily might I add. One way or another, India need to be wary of the fact they are be being fed like a cow only to be sacrificed & gobbled up later by their feeder. Hence, the existence & growth of China is actually as much in the survival interest of India, as it is for many other countries around the globe. If China lives, then so will India. Albeit a little behind China, but still existing & growing & prospering. Otherwise, the future will be quite horrible, miserable, and bleak for India as well...

 

[below_freezing]

Im not in favor of conflict and agree with your sentiment about avoiding war but for the reasons opposite to what you have stated. China is an exporter ie the seller and the countries named and not named are all importers of goods from China..ie buyers. China has more to lose from us than vice versa except US, who depends on China to fund its deficit (ie by importing huge #'s from China). The trade balance is in favor of China, however in terms of jobs and markets..the loss will purely be Chinese.

Agreed, it is not in the interests of Russia or India for China to lose a war against the US. because if we lose, YOU are next.

It is also not our interest to destroy India for obvious reasons.

"They took the Jews, and I didn't speak out. They took the communists, and I didn't speak out. When they came for me, there was no one to speak out for me."

 

[sensenreason]

Agreed, it is not in the interests of Russia or India for China to lose a war against the US. because if we lose, YOU are next.

It is also not our interest to destroy India for obvious reasons.

"They took the Jews, and I didn't speak out. They took the communists, and I didn't speak out. When they came for me, there was no one to speak out for me."

Sounds interesting, but what are the obvious reasons?

 

[below_freezing]

Sounds interesting, but what are the obvious reasons?

If we attack india, even if we win, it will be at a horrendous cost. at least 50 million if half of all indian nukes impact as I expect. we aren't as insane as the americans so that is not an acceptable cost.

If the US conquers india, that would obviously be very bad for us, since it means we're next.