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LOC Skirmishes: Updates & Discussions

I have said earlier, there are factions in India and Pakistan who don't want any peace. Kashmir is a Golden Goose.

agreed - let me ask this - is there any history of pak soldiers beheading indian soldiers - the militants, whether they are TTP or kashmiri jihadists sure do have a history of such actions!
 
agreed - let me ask this - is there any history of pak soldiers beheading indian soldiers - the militants, whether they are TTP or kashmiri jihadists sure do have a history of such actions!
That's the reason India is getting confused. They are ignoring the reality that insurgents have been used by PA many times. Using them takes away risk of any involvement discovered. They can blame non-state actors just like in Mumbai case.

Its an old strategy, Make a long chain so that the real master minds can't be caught.

If you remember, TTP just said few days ago about jehad against India. May be they did it.

But again, people also blame India for supporting TTP.

So many reasons and counter arguments creates confusion.
 
That's the reason India is getting confused. They are ignoring the reality that insurgents have been used by PA many times. Using them takes away risk of any involvement discovered. They can blame non-state actors just like in Mumbai case.

Its an old strategy, Make a long chain so that the real master minds can't be caught.

If you remember, TTP just said few days ago about jehad against India. May be they did it.

But again, people also blame India for supporting TTP.

So many reasons and counter arguments creates confusion.

then saner elements in india should raise their voices.
 
then saner elements in india should raise their voices.
`Saner elements, you must be kidding.

In India, people fight for human rights of terrorists, and no one give a sh!t for soldiers.
 
While flipping through channels yesterday night, I came across a Indian TV show in which Najam Sethi and the bald Dawn guy were guests. I have to say, Najam Sethi got totally exposed for the while I saw the show. He was utterly clueless, still towing the Aman Ki asha line and doing ayen bayen shayen. While the other guy was more straight forward in saying that if you want to play ball, so will we.

The Indian guests on the show were pretty furious as well. Some even suggested things ranging from stopping the peace dialogue, halting all ties to giving a befitting response.

All this without any iota of proof. Pak troops were so courageous that they first encountered 15 or so men, then killed 2, and went to the bodies of the killed and beheaded him, and then retreated!!!

A retreat is always done when you are forced back, and a beheading is done when you have time to waste! Another question that comes to mind is India just let go of their dead for a time long enough that Pakistan could behead them??? Even PA and TTP have the fiercest of fights while getting their dead back.

Alot of things don't add up, there is no proof, just hot air from the Indian side. Peace process is now put on the back burners. while we can expect some more small scale responses to come from both sides. Some things being suggested on TV such as a build up of troops like 2008 isn't possible either.

I would also add the role of the media. Indian media is spouting out propaganda like there is no tomorrow, while our Pak media is more busy celebrating birthdays of Bollywood celebrities and their upcoming films! Only Talat Hussain raised this issue in his prime time show, for that I commend you sir!
 
I have said earlier, there are factions in India and Pakistan who don't want any peace. Kashmir is a Golden Goose.

are you aware of the article in Hindu?

Last year, for example, there was fierce fighting Karnah, some 140 kilometres from Srinagar after two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a Border Action Team.
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in addition to that, the Indians also came as far as a village near Kotli in Pakistani Kashmir and executed a family while it slept and headed some of the family members a 2 years ago.
what I am saying is it clearly shows that Indian military is no better than what it accused Pakistani soldiers of doing to the dead Indian soldiers.

back to this story, India once again refused the UN observer mediation like last time I already expected that and also recall that Indians even refused to receive their dead in presence of International Red cross after claiming that Pakistan was desecrating their dead in kargil conflict. if a claim is made then give the accused a chance to clarify his position and a neutral party is always a good sign that there wont be any bias in the findings. Indian sovereignty is not so fragile that it will be infringed by mediation of an international body to which its very much member of.

I am not so sure if Indian government will get so drastic to hype up this incident so much for the sake of putting the Indian rape issue in the back.
 
Indian Media is Patriotic, not like Pakistani Media.
 
are you aware of the article in Hindu?in addition to that, the Indians also came as far as a village near Kotli in Pakistani Kashmir and executed a family while it slept and headed some of the family members a 2 years ago. hat I am saying is it clearly shows that Indian military is no better than what it accused Pakistani soldiers of doing to the dead Indian soldiers.

back to this story, India once again refused the UN observer mediation like last time I already expected that and also recall that Indians even refused to receive their dead in presence of International Red cross after claiming that Pakistan was desecrating their dead in kargil conflict. if a claim is made then give the accused a chance to clarify his position and a neutral party is always a good sign that there wont be any bias in the findings. Indian sovereignty is not so fragile that it will be infringed by mediation of an international body to which its very much member of.
I am not so sure if Indian government will get so drastic to hype up this incident so much for the sake of putting the Indian rape issue in the back.
I already said that UN observer call of Pakistan is exactly what they wanted. Internationalize the issue which hasn't been for few years.

As for beheading, I won't be surprised if insurgents did the dirty work for PA. After all it gives PA the leverage to deny all links. Just like Pakistan govt. said about Mumbai. They are non-state actors.

Just like they said about OBL. List goes on and on. Thing is Indians are idiot which believe these lies and call for Aman ka Tamasha. While US forget everything and take matters into their own hand.
 
I already said that Un observer call of Pakistan is exactly what they wanted. Internationalize the issue which hasn't been for few years.

As for beheading, I won't be surprised if insurgents did the dirty work for PA. After all it gives PA the leverage to deny all links. Just like Pakistan govt. said about Mumbai. They are non-state actors.

Just like they said about OBL. List goes on and on. Thing is Indians are idiot which believe these lies and call for Aman ka Tamasha. While US forget everything and take matters into their own hand.

point noted and understood where you are coming from.
India is sensitive to bringing it at international level because of Kashmir but that doesnt help resolve the issue in the absence of an international body which might have a very favourable attitude towards India and also wont Pakistan be shooting on its own foot by committing the alleged atrocity and bringing in all others to see, look what we have done now please resolve the Kashmir issue according to our wishes?

an allegation has to be backed up with proof and independent investigation otherwise all ti will do is fill up the space in the prime time news and follow up hot huffing and puffing by the hot headed ANALysts demanding blood until people forget what were the real issues before that whole thing blew out of the proportions.

`Saner elements, you must be kidding.

In India, people fight for human rights of terrorists, and no one give a sh!t for soldiers.

sir dont say that, your Judiciary has score 1 vs ours zero. its our courts who fight for self confessed terrorists and shower them with flowers and offer their funeral prayers
 
point noted and understood where you are coming from.
India is sensitive to bringing it at international level because of Kashmir but that doesnt help resolve the issue in the absence of an international body which might have a very favourable attitude towards India and also wont Pakistan be shooting on its own foot by committing the alleged atrocity and bringing in all others to see, look what we have done now please resolve the Kashmir issue according to our wishes?
an allegation has to be backed up with proof and independent investigation otherwise all ti will do is fill up the space in the prime time news and follow up hot huffing and puffing by the hot headed ANALysts demanding blood until people forget what were the real issues before that whole thing blew out of the proportions.
Sir, If you remember, India and Pakistan made good progress in Peace process. Trade, MFN, Relaxed Visa process, Medical Aid even after we had Mumbai like attacks.

All this happened without any third party. Both, Indian and Pakistani new generation is fine with Status Quo at Kashmir. They are focused on other major problems Look at my country, Youth for anti-corruption, Rape cases, Education etc. In your country, youth joining politics, supporting Imran Khan, Aeronaut is one example, youth wants education, jobs, etc.

Both nations' young generation wants economic growth. If borders remain silent for a decade, this same youth which haven't fed with lies and propaganda will make compromises for sake of nation's development. This is what people don't want.

Aren't you happy with Azad Kashmir. I am happy with our part of Kashmir. I don't want your part. I don't want Aksai Chin.

I want money to be invested in power, education, food security and economic development, women upliftment. Money to be spent on Development of What We HAVE.

Internationalizing the issue will give other nations to use it as leverage against us. Think about it. US will say we will support you if you give Nuclear deal without any liability clause. Or they will say to you, We will support you, don't build pipeline with Iran. Or start insurgency in Iran.

Why don't people see this ? Only way we can have best solution is bilaterally.
 
Lets look into this from another angle. How are we ignoring the possibility that militants may have started a border skirmish. Anyone can buy a military uniform off the shelf in Karachi. The kidnappings of personnel by Tariq Afridi group militants was conducted by militants who were in military uniform. I would look into this report:

It has been reported in the media that terrorists are using military uniform for gaining access to and attacking their targets. There are many examples of militants, dressed in security forces’ uniforms, easing their way into military installations by deceiving the outer security cordons. Recently, the Shia passengers in Mansehra were shot dead by terrorists in commando uniforms. In a similar attack on passenger buses which took place in Kohistan in February this year, the gunmen were again wearing military uniforms, as were the militants who attacked the GHQs in Rawalpindi in October 2009. Similarly, the militants who attacked the PNS Mehran Base in May 2011 and the PAF Base Minhas in Kamra in August this year reportedly took advantage of military uniforms to gain access to their targets. If my memory serves right, I remember that after the GHQs attack it was decided to shut down all the shops selling different items of military uniforms in the local market to stop unauthorised persons from purchasing these items. But this decision was never fully implemented. As a result, there still are a number of shops in the country supplying uniforms and accessories – which include rank badges, unit shoulder signs, caps, cap badges, arm bands, belts, boots, stitched uniforms and cloth for any type of uniform – of the army, navy, Rangers, Coast Guards and police. It must be noted here that no item of the PAF uniform is allowed to be sold in markets. New uniforms/accessories are issued to PAF personnel only after their uniform items are rendered unserviceable. The PAF personnel have to return these unserviceable items which are torn into small pieces and converted into cleaning rags. Hence, there are no chances of misusing any item of the PAF uniform. General Kayani must take serious notice of this security lapse on the part of the authorities concerned in the armed forces. Sqn-Ldr (r) S Ausaf Husain, Karachi, September 8.

This was from the news some months ago. Only the Taliban are capable of the brutality described. I could highlight a number of cases but the beheading of 21 personnel last month could be taken as a case to note.

Krait may say whatever the case border should be closed... do it, I say. Its a choice for the Indian people to make, but will conclude with this video:


Another thing is India's refusal to allow an investigation by the UN greatly weakens their narrative.
 
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Anybody seen the program on an Indian channel in which a Pak Army retired general walked out?

The host was really crazy IMO. He was talking as if he was present there and then and knew the whole story! Typifies the Indian media at this moment, they are hyping up the issue to nuclear proportions, advocating cutting all ties with Pak to starting a war or doing special ops inside Azad Kashmir! Thank God that the heads in Indian army are saner.

BTW, I was listening to radio, and as per the radio channel, it all started last week when a 80 year old woman crossed LoC unopposed form the Indian side into Pak to meet her children and migrate, the Indian army got furious at this and started erecting posts. Pak objected, the IA started some firing, things heated up. A Brig (??) of 19 Infantry division asked for permission to escalate (the Brig supposedly had a history of being aggressive) and now here we are.

Just something I heard today on radio (Indian BBC).
 
Indian media and its analysts are not short of exotic ideas (apologies for the lack of term but cant think of any for what I am going to share)


Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed mastermind the brutal killing of Indian soldiers on LoC, an Intelligence report claimed on Thursday.

The Mumbai terror accused was camping near LoC bordering Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir a week before Tuesday, when the barbaric incident shook every Indian.

so Pakistan army now directly reports to Hafiz Saeed's make shift GHQ at the LoC and Hafiz Saeed's orders supersede the command of Gen Kyani. now this is beginning to make sense.

actually it makes perfect sense now that its Hafiz saeed who

- converted Baloch regiment into a 29 Baloch Commando
- disbanded the SSG
-assigned black dungarees for its elite force
-mixed the members of disbanded SSG and 29 Baloch commando and banded into a new group called BAT (border action team)
-Hafiz Saeed christened them himself in his camp.
-ordered Pakistan armour corps tank troops to stop wearing the black dungarees again.
 
News Report, Pakistani soldier killed in firing across LoC today


Pakistani Soldier Killed by Indian Gunfire - ABC News




By Katharine Houreld

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Indian troops killed a Pakistani soldier on Thursday in the disputed region of Kashmir, the Pakistani army said, in the worst outbreak of violence in the area since the nuclear-armed neighbors agreed a ceasefire nearly a decade ago.


In the third fatal attack in five days, the Pakistani was killed by "unprovoked" Indian fire while manning a post in the Battal sector of Kashmir, which is split between the two sides by a heavily fortified border known as the Line of Control (LoC), the army spokesman said.

A Pakistani soldier was killed Sunday, and two Indian soldiers were killed and mutilated on Tuesday, their respective armies said. The two sides have lodged diplomatic protests.

What do members here make of this escalation and continuation by Indian army? Also what do you think the response should be and will be?
 

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