LOC Skirmishes: Updates & Discussions

[A1Kaid]

What do you give as evidence of mutilation??

India's chief military spokesman told the BBC one of the soldiers had been beheaded by the Pakistani army.

Troops searched the area afterwards but could not find the head, the spokesman said. India believes the Pakistanis took the head with them when they retreated.

The spokesman confirmed the body of the other soldier had been mutilated but would not give any further details.

BBC News - India says Pakistan 'beheaded' Kashmir soldier

There is at least this credible source reporting of the decapitation.

 

[Kompromat]

BBC News - India says Pakistan 'beheaded' Kashmir soldier

There is at least this credible source reporting of the decapitation.

This "credible" source is based in India [BBC Radio] and has been taking anti-Pakistan line all along, by NOT reporting the murder of a Pakistani Soldier in the context of this so called skirmish.

 

[SQ8]

BBC News - India says Pakistan 'beheaded' Kashmir soldier

There is at least this credible source reporting of the decapitation.

BBC INDIA Mon Ami.
And the BBC has lost its credibility a lot.. both home and overseas.

Wait for official Indian government or Army(serving) sources.

 

[A1Kaid]

This "credible" source is based in India [BBC Radio] and has been taking anti-Pakistan line all along, by NOT reporting the murder of a Pakistani Soldier in the context of this so called skirmish.

Good call, I also doubted the report but still BBC should not post it on it's own website, and should also verify the story before reporting such serious claims.

 

[SQ8]

Apparently the Indian High Commissioner been given a drubbing by our FM.
The GoP is toeing the Army line.. there is no backing down.
kiss any peace process goodbye for now.

Theories emerging from press and other sources cite this as a provocation by India to take the attention off the Rape case issue domestically..
If that is the unlikely case, it has been effective.. that girl is dead and forgotten thanks to a thirst for Pakistani blood.

 

[notorious_eagle]

The Indians have rejected a UN Investigation. If a UN Investigation does take place, it will be fair and impartial. All the lies and propaganda being spread will be exposed. It does not take a genius to figure out why India did not want a 3rd party investigation? Their official statements so far have been full of contradictions, they are yet to present a single piece of evidence proving that Pakistani soldiers beheaded those Indian soldiers. But it appears that before the completion of any investigation or furnishing of evidence, the Indian members have given their verdict. It sure is a pity.

 

[fatman17]

why would india refuse a UN investigation, since both countries dont 'trust' each other anyway? - why would PK offer a UN investigation if it had done what india is claiming? - the LoC has been quiet for a long time. maybe both sides wanted to expend their 'expired' ammo.

 

[A1Kaid]

India refuses UN probe and refuses to let a neutral international body see what happened, yet this country wants to become a Permanent Member of the UN, quite laughable.

 

[KRAIT]

why would india refuse a UN investigation, since both countries dont 'trust' each other anyway? - why would PK offer a UN investigation if it had done what india is claiming? - the LoC has been quiet for a long time. maybe both sides wanted to expend their 'expired' ammo.

Good questions sir. People are not asking it. You are right about why Pakistan agreed for UN investigation ?

One of the reason given is Pakistan wants to internationalize this issue again. You and I know that Kashmir issue has not been on international table for some time now.

Whatever be the reason of attack is, whether PA did or insurgents did, any foreign body investigation will bring third party.

@A1Kaid Dude, bad linkage between UN permanent membership and this incident. India ignored this because it doesn't want third party in this issue.

As for permanent member, does China take case of SCS at UN ?

Few things aren't taken to UN because it has nothing to do with third party.

I strongly suggest that Kashmir issue should be solved or even discussed bilaterally. No third party involvement.

 

[fatman17]

Good questions sir. People are not asking it. You are right about why Pakistan agreed for UN investigation ?

One of the reason given is Pakistan wants to internationalize this issue again. You and I know that Kashmir issue has not been on international table for some time now.

Whatever be the reason of attack is, whether PA did or insurgents did, any foreign body investigation will bring third party.

@A1Kaid Dude, bad linkage between UN permanent membership and this incident. India ignored this because it doesn't want third party in this issue.

As for permanent member, does China take case of SCS at UN ?

Few things aren't taken to UN because it has nothing to do with third party.

I strongly suggest that Kashmir issue should be solved or even discussed bilaterally. No third party involvement.

fair enough - what about the UN peacekeeper mission for india / pak (UNMOGIP) - ask them to make a low key investigation. that should suffice.

 

[KRAIT]

fair enough - what about the UN peacekeeper mission for india / pak (UNMOGIP) - ask them to make a low key investigation. that should suffice.

Again, any involvement of third party is what India don't want.

If you have seen that interview of Jaswant Singh and Pervez Mushraff, they said India and Pakistan were close to a solution on Kashmir Issue WITHOUT any third party involvement.

See point is, its domino effect, once UN is introduced at low key level, it could be built up as major international issue by effective diplomacy.

If you remember Pakistan has recently raised Kashmir issue in UN saying that UN has failed to address this issue and no one noticed it. If now UN in involved at slightest bit, Pakistan can use it as a reference point.

Both you ane me not that, Kashmir issue on multilateral dialogue will never reach any conclusion. Only bilateral solution is possible.

And sorry to say that, both in India and Pakistan, there are factions who don't want this issue to be resolved. Kashmir issue has been a Golden Goose for these factions.

Recent PEW survey said that majority of Pakistanis think we should make peace with India and focus more on other issues. Similar is the case with Indians. Kashmir has lost its charm. If you look at 2001 onwards, reduce in insurgencies and even attack of 26/11 being forgotten so easily and lost in midst of anti-Corruption, rape, etc, issues, Indians don't think about Kashmir that much either.

Both Indians and Pakistanis are getting used to of status quo. Our next generation may not even know what was it like during 1990s and 2000s when terrorism was at its peak in India and Pakistan respectively.

I mean, social media has brought both India and Pakistan moire closer, even if we fight, at least we listen to each other's posts. At least general population are now interacting through direct conversation, they don't get all information from state controlled media. No Doordarshan or PTV.

Consider this situation from a social scientist's POV. You will see that our grandfather wouldn't have thought we will be talking with each other and sharing jokes with some one whom we call Enemy No. 1.

No matter how much we deny this, Indians and Pakistanis are getting to know about each other and they are seeing that general population have same problems, Corruption, Poverty, Hunger, Electricity, Diseases, etc. is far more important for both than Kashmir.

 

[A1Kaid]

Kashmir issue will not be solved bilaterally especially not in decades to come, it is a waste of time and effort to pursue bilaterally, best we have third party involvement. Either a Internationally observed plebiscite by UN and other respected agencies including both Pakistani and Indian agencies or we can have the other country which is involved in Kashmir, China. Wen Jiabao stated China's border with Kashmir is not border with India. India will just find any excuse to delay any resolution to Kashmir.

As for the "beheading" as several members stated the story seems implausible from a realistic point of view and operational point of view.

 

[Last Hope]

The question that I would like to ask is; why is it that India doesn't want any third party involvement in Kashmir while Pakistan does? Is it because the war crimes and dictatorship over occupied Kashmir be obvious to the whole world which today is labeled as only baseless conspiracies by Pakistan and 'Jihadis' or in other words Kashmiris?
Or that fact that a fair decision maybe called for i.e. asking the people to chose which means majority supporting Pakistan and hence losing Kashmir for once and for all.

 

[fatman17]

If you have seen that interview of Jaswant Singh and Pervez Mushraff, they said India and Pakistan were close to a solution on Kashmir Issue WITHOUT any third party involvement
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/228520-loc-skirmish-jan-7-8-a-2.html#ixzz2HZAmpmgE

so whats the hitch - we are sidestepping here and for the record, india backed out at agra!!!

 

[KRAIT]

If you have seen that interview of Jaswant Singh and Pervez Mushraff, they said India and Pakistan were close to a solution on Kashmir Issue WITHOUT any third party involvement
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/228520-loc-skirmish-jan-7-8-a-2.html#ixzz2HZAmpmgE
so whats the hitch - we are sidestepping here and for the record, india backed out at agra!!!

I have said earlier, there are factions in India and Pakistan who don't want any peace. Kashmir is a Golden Goose.