LOC Skirmishes: Updates & Discussions

[A1Kaid]

What do you guys make of it? Also what are your thoughts about this alleged "mutiliation" or "beheading"? What do you think this tells us about PA infiltration capability apparently troops entered 300 meters (approximately half a mile inside) IoK attacked an Indian patrol unit.


Pakistani troops could have just walked to Srinagar.

 

[TaimiKhan]

What do you guys make of it? Also what are your thoughts about this alleged "mutiliation" or "beheading"? What do you think this tells us about PA infiltration capability apparently troops entered 300 meters (approximately half a mile inside) IoK attacked an Indian patrol unit.


Pakistani troops could have just walked to Srinagar.

Aren't you taking your imagination too far ??

And don't worry, Indian army have the same infiltration capability, its not just us who can infiltrate.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Something i posted on the other thread. The Indian Army statements are not adding up.

Now that i have had some time to look at some various sources, lets delve a little deep into this issue.

Sources said that the Pakistani soldiers beheaded one of the two soldiers and decamped with weapons of both the jawans. Later, the dead bodies were recovered and the injured soldiers airlifted and admitted to the Army’s Command Hospital.

The Northern Command headquarters at Udhampur later came out with a statement terming the Pakistani Border Action Team offensive a “significant escalation” to the continuing series of ceasefire violations and infiltration attempts supported by Pakistan Army. “Pak army troops, having taken advantage of thick fog & mist in the forested area, were moving towards our posts when an alert area domination patrol spotted and engaged the intruders. The firefight between Pak and own troops continued for approximately half an hour after which the intruders retreated back towards their side of Line of Control. Two soldiers Lance Naik Hemraj and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh laid down their lives while fighting the Pak troops” it added.

The Hindu : News / National : Pak troops cross LoC, kill two jawans in Poonch

First of all, an area domination patrol consists of atleast a platoon level strength (30 to 40 soldiers) and not six as claimed by acid rain. The question i want to raise is, if the IA patrol spotted the so called alleged infiltrators and engaged them, how did the raiding party dodge the incoming fire and get up close to the patrol, decapitate their heads and take away their weapons? This simply is not adding up. The statements from the Indian Army is full of contradictions.

 

[A1Kaid]

Aren't you taking your imagination too far ??

And don't worry, Indian army have the same infiltration capability, its not just us who can infiltrate.

The Srinagar comment was a light remark wasn't too serious about it. Of course they have limited infiltration capability, but PA troops went half a mile inside and across LoC.

Though what do you make of this situation overall, what do you think the response will be?

 

[A1Kaid]

So notorious you think the patrol unit must have been 30-40 men? It's not possible it was a smaller patrol unit the size of a squad (of 8-13 soldiers)?


I think if a patrol unit was attacked it must have been a squad level unit, though I don't know what units Indian army sends out on patrol in IoK and the exact number of soldiers.

 

[notorious_eagle]

So notorious you think the patrol unit must have been 30-40 men? It's not possible it was a smaller patrol unit the size of a squad (of 8-13 soldiers)?


I think if a patrol unit was attacked it must have been a squad level unit, though I don't know what units Indian army sends out on patrol in IoK and the exact number of soldiers.

The newspaper is saying, it was an area domination patrol. An area domination patrol consists of atleast 30-40 men.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The Srinagar comment was a light remark wasn't too serious about it. Of course they have limited infiltration capability, but PA troops went half a mile inside and across LoC.

Though what do you make of this situation overall, what do you think the response will be?

They don't have limited infiltration capability, as i said they are fully capable to do anything just like us.

And nothing worse will happen, one or two such incidents, hot lines will start buzzing and the senior commanders will cool down their troops and things will be back to normal.

 

[A1Kaid]

The newspaper is saying, it was an area domination patrol. An area domination patrol consists of atleast 30-40 men.

Well you're correct what the news paper is reporting is implausible if it was a area domination patrol. Must have been a small squad patrol which made for relatively easy picking. Though if it was a squad patrol or area domination patrol then what about the other soldiers in the unit? What happened to them, soldiers in a patrol unit stick by each other, it's not possible for 2 soldiers to go down and the other patrol unit soldiers not know about it (let alone beheaded). So you're right story doesn't add up.

Unless the entire patrol unit was eliminated this beheading allegation seems implausible, which would also mean Indian army is covering up the deaths of other soldiers and only reporting two. This development becomes even more interesting.

 

[Last Hope]

I have made this clear once and I will again,

When Pakistani Rangers and Indian BSF engage at border, the news first comes out from Indian media who is quick in these matters. New title usually is attached 'Pakistan violates....' without any confirmed proof or story with actual 'fighting' yet going on. When you open the link they have only posted the time and location of the violation.

Pakistani media is however not that fast with their fingers and then ISPR denies the violations and claim that 'India violates....' and that '...Pakistan has strongly objected and called for a flag meeting.' This news is then picked by Pakistani media saying 'India violates....'. The fact that I am trying to say is, media propagates the news with flaw and mustn't be trust unless the Public Relations come in.

As a fact, in recent years, most of the violations happened from Indian side and Indian media was not hesitating at all to blame Pakistan, and latter on the Indian PR agreed their violation.

On August 17, 2012 a Pakistani village came under Indian pounding at about 2200 hours which resulted in six civilian casualties including three children and a woman. Ofcourse, Pakistan was blamed. There were no Rangers present in the area and about 2230-2250 they arrived to engage back. The fight continued for 2 days and 3 Indian soldiers were injured including one gaining serious wounds. ISPR presented the proofs and that hushed everything up. Similar incidents happen most of the time.

Indian BSF engaged Pakistani Rangers injuring two Pakistani soldiers, this was just the retaliation which they should have rightfully anticipated.

 

[SQ8]

The fact of the matter remains that regardless of who started it first. The PoV that is repeated most frequently, eloquently and vociferously will be accepted as truth.
Pakistan may present ten proofs , but if it runs a Hundred times from India.. then India will automatically be accepted as truthful.
Pakistani media is too busy these days with Sex, Lies and .3gp.

 

[KRAIT]

Has the alert situation gone down ?

NE said that alert has been issued. What's the current state ?

 

[A1Kaid]

I have made this clear once and I will again,

When Pakistani Rangers and Indian BSF engage at border, the news first comes out from Indian media who is quick in these matters. New title usually is attached 'Pakistan violates....' without any confirmed proof or story with actual 'fighting' yet going on. When you open the link they have only posted the time and location of the violation.

Pakistani media is however not that fast with their fingers and then ISPR denies the violations and claim that 'India violates....' and that '...Pakistan has strongly objected and called for a flag meeting.' This news is then picked by Pakistani media saying 'India violates....'. The fact that I am trying to say is, media propagates the news with flaw and mustn't be trust unless the Public Relations come in.

As a fact, in recent years, most of the violations happened from Indian side and Indian media was not hesitating at all to blame Pakistan, and latter on the Indian PR agreed their violation.

On August 17, 2012 a Pakistani village came under Indian pounding at about 2200 hours which resulted in six civilian casualties including three children and a woman. Ofcourse, Pakistan was blamed. There were no Rangers present in the area and about 2230-2250 they arrived to engage back. The fight continued for 2 days and 3 Indian soldiers were injured including one gaining serious wounds. ISPR presented the proofs and that hushed everything up. Similar incidents happen most of the time.

Indian BSF engaged Pakistani Rangers injuring two Pakistani soldiers, this was just the retaliation which they should have rightfully anticipated.

I agree with you, if PA troops were really involved in this tactical strike then I must commend them, this was a perfect covert operation hit and escape. PA troops really planned this one well, terrain, weather, route, analyzed the enemies positions, and executed a perfect strike 600 meters (according to some sources, at first 300 meters claimed) inside IoK across LoC. This type of deep infiltration capability should be utilized more. Had PA troops wanted they could have eliminated more Indian soldiers but I suppose the order was given to only eliminate two. Imagine what it felt like to be those soldiers, in the high elevations, in the mountains, and forested areas and knowing you're carrying out a revengeful covert infiltration strike 600 meters inside enemy territory to kill patrol units and return safely. Many Kashmiris are happy and joyful and proud of this operation by Pakistan knowing Pakistan hasn't forgotten them.

this was just the retaliation which they should have rightfully anticipated.

They were anticipating it, but PA outsmarted them.


Bravo to Pakistan army for this excellent strike.

 

[SQ8]

Has the alert situation gone down ?

NE said that alert has been issued. What's the current state ?

Nothing beyond two extra troops at every post.
This is heading more and more towards more of a shouting match rather than anything serious.

 

[KRAIT]

Retaliation is one thing, beheading and mutilation is another. But I won't argue this. We can argue for next couple of days, no one will believe each other. Evidence or no evidence, both parties won't accept anything said by another.

I just blame Indian Govt. I don't blame Pakistan Army but GOI.

 

[SQ8]

Retaliation is one thing, beheading and mutilation is another. But I won't argue this. We can argue for next couple of days, no one will believe each other. Evidence or no evidence, both parties won't accept anything said by another.

I just blame Indian Govt. I don't blame Pakistan Army but GOI.

What do you give as evidence of mutilation??