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J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

What will be PAF's reaction if India start to produce F16?
A few years back in the after salala attack China offered Pakistan

The Wall = J11's.

If USA would move aggressively by providing F-16 / F-18 and positioning F-22 operated by USAF then China would provide PAF J-20. It is very clear....
 
what the hell are talking about let say we do as you said let's add J-10 too right now then you will have 3 generation fighter and mix match of 4th generation fighter that is same plane as Indian that is just stupid every one talks about Indian 220 SU-30's but no one talk about India can only operate half of them if want that for PAF then sure do it if you think JF-17 is gamble then i can't be reason with you you are strong as the weakest link

1)now you have 4 types of fighters F7,7P mirages JF-17 and F-16 that means 4 type of different training and spare parts now add J-10 too one more training one more spar parts with it will only add more cost for now

2)PAF still have time every one and the world is going for 2 class system F-22 and F-35 SU-35 and MIG-35 J-10 and J-11 or J-15 why because it is cheaper and economical JF-17 will allow us to remove 2 types of 3 generation planes after that you will only have 2 type of planes that means is PAF will the time and resources to add or integrate or replace one other plane to the fleet that the hole point



where the hell you people getting your information J-10 is not 3.5 generation fighter it is 4+ or 4.5 generation fighter it is Chinese 3.5 generation fighter because china didn't build any 1st generation fighters if USA going to start build F-16 in India then pakistan will not buy F-16 then it will be replace and i think Boeing going to start building Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in India not F-16


Hi,


Count the types of aircraft that the indian air force has.

Now count the type of aircraft that the usaf has. it is a misnoer that they are going for 2 types---they still have a plethora of complimentary aircraft to these two.

So---if the J10 is not the choice---any other potent aircraft maybe the choice at the top tier.

Regardless of what the Paf say----it still needs two types of aircraft before its gets a 5th gen aircraft.

You need---your utility and the type of enemy that you are facing selects the type of aircraft.

Paf has neither of its bases covered---.

F7's and mirages are on their way out---so don't count them---just count the JF17.

The problem in this equation is the F 16----and issues with its supplies.

In the time of war---about 70% of the SU's will be available----.

Do not measure it as one aircraft to JF 17 ----. The SU has the power to carry 5-6 times the numbers of BVR.

A sortie of 2 SU 30's carry as many BVR missiles as 10 JF 17's----so what is the mulitplier effect of power projection for each SU30???

It can carry twice the load of a JF17----so what is the power projection then?

It can stay afloat for 2--3 times than JF 17---so what is the power projection then?

The issue over here is---that the top tier of the Paf is extremely vulnerable and the FLANK is open.

The FLANK means---that the paf has no heavy strike aircraft to respond with. And well know about the top tier issues.

When I state J10C---it is for the reason that it is readily available with the latest chinese avionics and you may have the option to get the Turkish avionics as well or Vixen.

This aircraft has the similar operational costs as the F16's---maybe a little higher--but not out of proportion----.

It is a single engine aircraft----.

You already have all the weapons that the J10 may use.

Plus you will be ably to get the high off bore sight missile for it as well that you may a difficult time otherwise.

So---the J10 is the bottom of the list to fill in the hole---then you can step up from this position to an SU35---Eurofighter---Rafale---J31---that is purely upto you.

But the baseline now is the J10C---.

Realistically---If I have my way---I will either look for the JH7B with aesa----this would be like throwing a monkey wrench into the enemy's planning---or the SU34's.

Because right now----they don't have to worry about any deep strike. With the JH7B's---the unpredictability of where it could strike from and from which direction----would help SPREAD THE ENEMY'S DEFENSE IN A WIDER CIRCLE---which means that the enemy will have to disperse its assets in a wider area and might have to reduce the number of assets from its strike force and divert it elsewhere.


Like mumbai----.The JH7B can strike mumbai from different angles---rather than a direct line of flight.

Mumbai is the jugular vein of india---but it has never been attacked before. The results of strikes would be catastrophic on the psyche of the public and on the investments---.

So---technically---you may have the enemy divert 1/4th of its assets in that region.

Then you may also have the ability to strike Calcuta from over the mountains---if not calcutta---then somewhere close----.

What does that do---again diversion of resources from the main strike point---.

I did not want to bring in Calcutta region before---I thought that you superstars would have the brains to think about the radius of the strike capabilities of the JH7B's on your own and won't wait for me to feed you the directions all the time.

But all you kids can do is argue argue argue---.

I bring in the JH7B---because it is available----but if the SU34 was available---I would not have any problems----.

So--if I got the job today to decide what the paf gets-----I will pick 48 JH7B's with aesa nd ability to launch BVR's and the off bore sight WVR missiles---with growler capabilities and possibly buddy refueling.

There is more to a GUNFIGHT than having the ability to perform HIGH G's all the time.

well the most I can expect is a statement from PAF " We are capable of defending our Skies " nothing more to expect from them ..

Sir,

That is a blatant LIE----. In order for you to defend your skies---you need to have the ability to reach into the enemy's stronghold and do damage. Without that---you cannot protect.
 
Sir,

That is a blatant LIE----. In order for you to defend your skies---you need to have the ability to reach into the enemy's stronghold and do damage. Without that---you cannot protect.

Sir I know and I am with you when it comes to moving away from F-16 love .. its now or never , but this nation can be fooled easily .. and you know what I mean when I share the " Wohi gissa pita Statement " from our Air force
 
Sir I know and I am with you when it comes to moving away from F-16 love .. its now or never , but this nation can be fooled easily .. and you know what I mean when I share the " Wohi gissa pita Statement " from our Air force


Hi,

And for that reason---I have stated many a times---the feet of the air force need to be held to the fire. They have been riding this wave of invincibility for the last 51 years---and nobody has dared to question them.

It is high time---that they need to be brought to justice---and face the ' music '.
 
Hi,

And for that reason---I have stated many a times---the feet of the air force need to be held to the fire. They have been riding this wave of invincibility for the last 51 years---and nobody has dared to question them.

It is high time---that they need to be brought to justice---and face the ' music '.

Sir who you think will question them ?
Local UC nazim think himself as a GOD after he gets the Title , and you want to dare question the credibility of our Generals .. in this country one can Question the Prophet but not the Generals :D
 
Sir who you think will question them ?
Local UC nazim think himself as a GOD after he gets the Title , and you want to dare question the credibility of our Generals .. in this country one can Question the Prophet but not the Generals :D


Hi,

That will be me---off course. Who else wants to have their neck stretched other than me.
 
Hi,

That will be me---off course. Who else wants to have their neck stretched other than me.

Its not about that Sir, Pakistan is not US where anyone can be put into a trail for Negligence , nor we have Umar ibn Khattab as our leader where one can stand up in public and ask him where did you get the new clothes Khalifa...
how can one really put their ( PAF ) credibility to a test ? and why they neglected the county's Air defense ..

now for some members , I just want to clear that no one is questioning the service of our Brave Pilots , who put their life on risk to defend us .. so we can sit in our rooms and type long post.. but until you give the soldier his weapon, than how you expect him to fight ?
 
1)now you have 4 types of fighters F7,7P mirages JF-17 and F-16 that means 4 type of different training and spare parts now add J-10 too one more training one more spar parts with it will only add more cost for now

2)PAF still have time every one and the world is going for 2 class system F-22 and F-35 SU-35 and MIG-35 J-10 and J-11 or J-15 why because it is cheaper and economical JF-17 will allow us to remove 2 types of 3 generation planes after that you will only have 2 type of planes that means is PAF will the time and resources to add or integrate or replace one other plane to the fleet that the hole point

read in bold fonts you gave answer to your own question in a single post....

F-17 is lightweight and are just good for CAP(combat air patrol). for deep strike we need medium or heavy weight fighter jet..
F-16 are few in numbers and will be subjected to the electronic(f-16 will not be able to fly without key) sanctions.. and that is the reason we need 2nd medium weight fighter jet...

EFT though expensive is far superior to what India has or would have. The issue is EJ-200 or EJ-220 might end up in China.
This problem can be solved if PAC acquires capability to modify the JF-17 without the engine being sent to China for the necessary structural modifications. Or PAF decides not to incorporate these engines on JF-17 at all.
if EFT is ordered and that will take sometime to develop infrastructure and for jets to arrive, in meantime if PAC has will to integrate EJ-200 in F-17, they have time to master the structural modifications to adjust new engine..

IF THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY..

@ACE OF THE AIR

Kuwait has agreed for a 9 billion dollars deal for 28 Eurofighters

You have that kind of money
28 Typhoons with huge huge weapon and maintenance package .

What will be PAF's reaction if India start to produce F16?
IF they chose F-16, than there will not be any reaction from PAF.. they know everything about physical structure as well as software structures of F-16 from blk 15 to blk 60 and there weak points as well..
 
Hi,


Count the types of aircraft that the indian air force has.

Now count the type of aircraft that the usaf has. it is a misnoer that they are going for 2 types---they still have a plethora of complimentary aircraft to these two.

So---if the J10 is not the choice---any other potent aircraft maybe the choice at the top tier.

Regardless of what the Paf say----it still needs two types of aircraft before its gets a 5th gen aircraft.

You need---your utility and the type of enemy that you are facing selects the type of aircraft.

Paf has neither of its bases covered---.

F7's and mirages are on their way out---so don't count them---just count the JF17.

The problem in this equation is the F 16----and issues with its supplies.

In the time of war---about 70% of the SU's will be available----.

Do not measure it as one aircraft to JF 17 ----. The SU has the power to carry 5-6 times the numbers of BVR.

A sortie of 2 SU 30's carry as many BVR missiles as 10 JF 17's----so what is the mulitplier effect of power projection for each SU30???

It can carry twice the load of a JF17----so what is the power projection then?

It can stay afloat for 2--3 times than JF 17---so what is the power projection then?

The issue over here is---that the top tier of the Paf is extremely vulnerable and the FLANK is open.

The FLANK means---that the paf has no heavy strike aircraft to respond with. And well know about the top tier issues.

When I state J10C---it is for the reason that it is readily available with the latest chinese avionics and you may have the option to get the Turkish avionics as well or Vixen.

This aircraft has the similar operational costs as the F16's---maybe a little higher--but not out of proportion----.

It is a single engine aircraft----.

You already have all the weapons that the J10 may use.

Plus you will be ably to get the high off bore sight missile for it as well that you may a difficult time otherwise.

So---the J10 is the bottom of the list to fill in the hole---then you can step up from this position to an SU35---Eurofighter---Rafale---J31---that is purely upto you.

But the baseline now is the J10C---.

Realistically---If I have my way---I will either look for the JH7B with aesa----this would be like throwing a monkey wrench into the enemy's planning---or the SU34's.

Because right now----they don't have to worry about any deep strike. With the JH7B's---the unpredictability of where it could strike from and from which direction----would help SPREAD THE ENEMY'S DEFENSE IN A WIDER CIRCLE---which means that the enemy will have to disperse its assets in a wider area and might have to reduce the number of assets from its strike force and divert it elsewhere.


Like mumbai----.The JH7B can strike mumbai from different angles---rather than a direct line of flight.

Mumbai is the jugular vein of india---but it has never been attacked before. The results of strikes would be catastrophic on the psyche of the public and on the investments---.

So---technically---you may have the enemy divert 1/4th of its assets in that region.

Then you may also have the ability to strike Calcuta from over the mountains---if not calcutta---then somewhere close----.

What does that do---again diversion of resources from the main strike point---.

I did not want to bring in Calcutta region before---I thought that you superstars would have the brains to think about the radius of the strike capabilities of the JH7B's on your own and won't wait for me to feed you the directions all the time.

But all you kids can do is argue argue argue---.

I bring in the JH7B---because it is available----but if the SU34 was available---I would not have any problems----.

So--if I got the job today to decide what the paf gets-----I will pick 48 JH7B's with aesa nd ability to launch BVR's and the off bore sight WVR missiles---with growler capabilities and possibly buddy refueling.

There is more to a GUNFIGHT than having the ability to perform HIGH G's all the time.



Sir,

That is a blatant LIE----. In order for you to defend your skies---you need to have the ability to reach into the enemy's stronghold and do damage. Without that---you cannot protect.

read in bold fonts you gave answer to your own question in a single post....

F-17 is lightweight and are just good for CAP(combat air patrol). for deep strike we need medium or heavy weight fighter jet..
F-16 are few in numbers and will be subjected to the electronic(f-16 will not be able to fly without key) sanctions.. and that is the reason we need 2nd medium weight fighter jet...


if EFT is ordered and that will take sometime to develop infrastructure and for jets to arrive, in meantime if PAC has will to integrate EJ-200 in F-17, they have time to master the structural modifications to adjust new engine..

IF THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY..

please For GOD sake at least read bold lines

You people don't under a single thing i wort when and where i said don't buy J-10 sure buy as many you like stop being a fool
and why i count F-7 and mirages out they are going to be remain in serves till 2020 let say PAF buy J-10 right now you wouldn't have money left to upgrade and build JF-17 you will not have spear parts for F-16 so that fleet is gone you will have insufficient numbers of JF-17 to replace old fleet you have repair them as well to make them work that means only two things just added cost and lose life

do u guys think 700M for just for 8 planes it also include spare parts radars for old planes i am still saying it is not worth it buy only spear parts then buy old planes and upgrade them or don't buy old planes at all

not every pilot going to fly J-10 you still going to have planes which will be light fighter keep reaming the old planes means lost of life in pilots


All i am saying one simple thing spend money on upgrading and build of JF-17 do it faster in 2 or 3 years retired the old fleet now you will have money saving because you can make there spear parts in Pakistan you will only have to worry about two type of plane then if you want to replace F-16 or add one other plane do it if it is J-10 or SU-35 do it don't do it right now do it after 3 years

Yes i completely agree PAF need a bigger and long range fighter in numbers all i am saying do it after 2or3 years and J-10 is a good plane i am not disagreeing on that i am disagreeing on just timing
 
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please For GOD sake at least read bold lines

You people don't under a single thing i wort when and where i said don't buy J-10 sure buy as many you like stop being a fool
and why i count F-7 and mirages out they are going to be remain in serves till 2020 let say PAF buy J-10 right now you wouldn't have money left to upgrade and build JF-17 you will not have spear parts for F-16 so that fleet is gone you will have insufficient numbers of JF-17 to replace old fleet you have repair them as well to make them work that means only one thing just added cost and lose life

do u guys think 700M for just for 8 planes it also include spare parts radars for old planes i am still saying it is not worth it buy only spear parts then buy old planes and upgrade them or don't buy old planes at all

not every pilot going to fly J-10 you still going to have planes which will be light fighter keep reaming the old planes means lost of life in pilots


All i am saying one simple thing spend money on upgrading and build of JF-17 do it faster in 2 or 3 years retired the old fleet now you will have money saving because you can make there spear parts in Pakistan you will only have worry about two type of plane then if you want to replace F-16 or add one other plane do it if it is J-10 or SU-35 do it don't do it right now do it after 3 years

Yes i completely agree PAF need a bigger and long range fighter and all i am syaing do it after 2or3 years and J-10 is a good plane i am not disagreeing on that i am disagreeing on just timing


Sir,

That is what has happened by the blunders committed by paf---they started to fill from bottoms up---. The problem that we see here is created because of that.

The idea of the JF was a problem in itself---to make it potent---they needed to buy the Rafale in 2003 so that the avionics for the JF 17 would be sold unhindered.
 
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Sir,

That is what has happened by the blunders committed by paf---they started to fill from bottoms up---. The problem that we see here is created because of that.

The idea of the JF was a problem in itself---to make it potent---they needed to buy the Rafale in 2003 so that the equipment for the JF 17 would be sold unhindered.

Let me give a very rude example---larki ki jhant key baal----lund to ghusnay say rok nahin saktay---that is what light aircraft are in front of heavies.

Bhai JF-17 not that bad that you are making it to be JF-17 can carry more then two BRV one additional hard point going to added in JF-17 block 3 we are not US nor India they are big countries you can not have all J-10's you will need a light weight in war when heavy and bigger planes doing heavy acting they will protecting our sky's from back or supporting army troops that sort of stuff it never designed as heavy fighter it can not do every thing better but good enough for back bone fighter same job as F-7 and mirages

and more to the point In March 2012, talks were held between the china and pakistan to discuss the delivery of latest J-10B fighter jets to Pakistan J-10B is in the pipeline if you are asking why they are not deliverer yet because they were new then they will be coming with all the fixes and stuff into PAF
 
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