J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

[Jhon Smith]

we dont need to give money for J 10 , use 1/100th of that money and start a project to design jet engine, that can change the luck of pak army...
Can u answer Y v r not producing car engine in Pakistan?? WHhile India r producing the Satellite vehicles and we can't make jet engine??
watch that digram and let me know what precision level in term of distance r deem in injector of car?
on fun note Now need to add water injection into the afterburner to add some more thrust and help drive temps down

Before I explain further , Can you answer me Y we r not producing petrol engine of car(Honda/toyta) in PAk??? does that r impossible too?? if u understand the logic of it u may understand further!!


Lets say in that way give me ur required precision demand , here I could show u how sharp (in nano meters) blade and what level u need is even available in market, u can order...


PIA overhaul jet engine by own , what parts they need and what precision they deem to fix there engine , they use to order it in international market!! Its lame excuse that we dont have certain robotic tool to polish/cut/bend/design engine blade!! the best cutting machine (even the laser cutter r available in Korean/chines/Japanese/German by vendors )

one need just a programme to feed in available Laser cutter for certain size of cutting






I am not joking man!! need to move *** rather to say Can’t Start, Won’t Start: as its difficult and other countries has not did , how can we do? v not did many things ( v even not produce the car engine) shall v need Tricks for Overcoming Procrastination....

Watch that under-garde student , he and his lab fellows do more fun more party , even drink alcohol on weekends and swimming in summer , despite that hey r producing prototype in small labs .. OK at leaset PAC can start to make prototype in labs.. many of my batch-mates works in Nescom , Atomic energy commission and PAC Kamra!!

 

[Zain Malik]

Pakistan Airforce has no fighter/Bombers aircraft of long range. While India has a large Fleet of Migs and Mkis. Sukhoi is a good fighter bomber specially the SU-34 and Su 37 version. I don't know why they are not taking it seriously while India is also acquiring rafales...Do they stop them with thunders...So the J-10B/C is now impossible to aquire. If they order so when the first plane will land in Pakistan world be tired of using 5th generation fighters.....

Let Xi talk to Putin, sell J16 to Pakistan. If he not agree, shall sell Su35 to Pakistan. If push come to shove, no need give Rusky a shit. To be honest, J16 is way beyond F16 be it in payload and range. I think India will respond fiercely if China sell Pakistan J16 cause it give detrimental threat to their CBG. The best fighter in PLAAF is J20, then comes the J16 as second.

Impossible what you have said.....

 

[his5850]

Get a life...Find the old timers who flew the PAF bombers during both Pakistan - India wars...They would tell you some thing which would change your entire perception regarding bombers.

If you remember PAF modified C-130's to do bombing missions specially against supply lines... Also read about the role B-57 Canberra Bombers.

Till that time do not talk about this topic.

he was talking about specific fighter bomber and you are talking about heavy bomber it is not a same thing at least read what i said.

today's planes can also do bombing you have little resources smaller air force you want J-10 which i can understand why buy JH-7 same goes for SU-34 which is very specific plane for the job which job can be done by JF-17 you will not have that much money to do that it's not needed in small air force when PAF is bigger then buy one we don't need fighter bomber right now we need big multi role fighters and we also have light fighters to do the job of mirages

u can not change the fact Pakistan spend Million's of dollars on JF-17 right so if you think it is good plane or bad one you have no choice but to stick with it it's not going any where you what you have to choose is what is your next best option

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

he was talking about specific fighter bomber and you are talking about heavy bomber it is not a same thing at least read what i said.

today's planes can also do bombing you have little resources smaller air force you want J-10 which i can understand why buy JH-7 same goes for SU-34 which is very specific plane for the job which job can be done by JF-17 you will not have that much money to do that it's not needed in small air force when PAF is bigger then buy one

u can not change the fact Pakistan spend Million's of dollars on JF-17 right so if you think it is good plane or bad one you have to stick with it it's not going any where you what you have to choose is what is your next best option

The British Mosquito was a light technical bomber...This type should have been part of air force. Later on this could have incorporated Air to air missiles like PAF F-6 got.

If you read about A-5 then you would know it was a bomber but PAF modified it to be a fighter.

Today the SU-34 is a prime example...

Agreed with you.
@MastanKhan he is very right, a small airforce should have multirole fighter aircraft.

In my view F-16 serve the PAF requirement best. But if PAF want to shift from F-16 and till J-31 becomes available, the best option till J-31 come in service should be MIG-35. Best part is it can have JF-17, Mig 35 and J-31 all with the Russina RD-33 engine.

Why not PAF gets SU-34 and SU-35 and also set the latest engine for JF-17?

If India does not procure the Rafales they might enter PAF.

EFT are also being considered because they open up other more advance platform...

 

[his5850]

The British Mosquito was a light technical bomber...This type should have been part of air force. Later on this could have incorporated Air to air missiles like PAF F-6 got.

If you read about A-5 then you would know it was a bomber but PAF modified it to be a fighter.

Today the SU-34 is a prime example...

i have one question how much debt we had in 1965 did economic crisis going on even then the answer is not
all i am saying get out economic crisis then buy it
for small air with limited resources you do not need because 1st you will not have that much money 2nd that job can be done by light weight fighters for now when you are more economically strong the buy it For Love of GOD please understand some reason big multi role fighter will give you that much effectiveness for your money simple point JF-17 can do that job with refueling probe
what pakistan need right now better engine for JF-17 and upgraded to JF-17 block 3 replace the old fleet and save money then buy a bigger and better plane

 

[Ultima Thule]

Pakistan Airforce has no fighter/Bombers aircraft of long range. While India has a large Fleet of Migs and Mkis. Sukhoi is a good fighter bomber specially the SU-34 and Su 37 version. I don't know why they are not taking it seriously while India is also acquiring rafales...Do they stop them with thunders...So the J-10B/C is now impossible to aquire. If they order so when the first plane will land in Pakistan world be tired of using 5th generation fighters.....


Impossible what you have said.....

Their is no Su-37 kid its a experimental fighter of mid 90's and as for Su-34 is less than 50 in Russian airforce

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

Russia has 80 SU-34 and 12 are on order by Algerian Airforce. Also as per Russian Airforce sorties were performed by SU-34 in Syria.

 

[knight11]

The British Mosquito was a light technical bomber...This type should have been part of air force. Later on this could have incorporated Air to air missiles like PAF F-6 got.

If you read about A-5 then you would know it was a bomber but PAF modified it to be a fighter.

Today the SU-34 is a prime example...


Why not PAF gets SU-34 and SU-35 and also set the latest engine for JF-17?

If India does not procure the Rafales they might enter PAF.

EFT are also being considered because they open up other more advance platform...

First reason is the Cost and with the cost it means the cost of ownership and the maintainance not the fly away cost, base upgrade. Both of them are not cheap aircraft and most likely above 100 Million dollor a piece and MIG-35 was the cheapest MMRCA during the Indian MMRCA competition.
Second reason is the Role for which it is desingned -- SU 34 is a ground attack plane based on Su-27 and not meant for air to air combat, where as Su-35 is mainly the strike aircraft, but for a small airforce like PAF with limited budget, Multirole aircraft is the need. Mig-35 have Zhuk M Aesa radar available, and since India have already rejected MIG-35, don't think India could stop this deal.
Third MIG-35 could be easily mated with the Chinese Armament, because there own Radar are based on Zhuk Radar, and have same backend computer and with the western avionics.

Lets see what PAF can get from the MIG-35

MIG-35 base price 35 Million dollor. Now add Zhuk-M Aesa, SAAB RWR, LWS, MAWS, Itallian Aesa bassed Internal Jammer, New R-77 PD BVRAAM or next generation BVRAAM, Offbore sight R-73, KH-31, KH-55 ARM or chinese equivalent. Even if the cost increased to 70 Million a piece, its a good aircraft with short take off capability, have TVC, have big Nose for bigger Radar Antenna.

PAF could have diversity and source of the weapons package to choose, Chinese, Russian or South African.

Now comming to Engine RD-33 MK engne with 4000 hour TBO is not a bad engine. With JF-17 already have RD-93 engine with various parts common with this engine, and J-31 if selected with RD-33 engine, Pakistan could ask Russia for the Local production cum repair, overhaul facility like India.

What @MastanKhan is suggesting is best if PAF wants to go offensive against India, but looking at the SAM, Radar, Awaac, and IAF assets, going offensive would only lower the PAF capability, what PAF should do is to play the defensive on the PAF airspace with local radar and sam cover and for offensive use the Glide bombs, cruise missiles and other strandoff weapons. The idea of PAF should only one, not to allow IAF air superiority over Pakistani Airforce that's it.

1. Rafale will enter IAF and there should be no doubt about it period.

2. EF second best after F-22, but its cost should be around 250 Million will weapon package, and airport upgrades, and EF for PAF is difficult, even if Money is there because there are 5 nations consollisium and most probably the european would be paranoid of their technology landing to the China.

Russia has 80 SU-34 and 12 are on order by Algerian Airforce. Also as per Russian Airforce sorties were performed by SU-34 in Syria.

The work horse of the Russian Ground attack in Syria was done by 4 Su-24, and as far as deployment is conserned 4 su-24, 4 su 35, and 4 su-30 SM were deployed.

 

[MastanKhan]

are You kidding me Phantom is a under power plane it wasn't that maneuverable because of it's wing style not because of it was under power it was famous as Big fast bus you should read some history

Hi,

Good only in after burner mode when flying straight---other than---as many pilots described---handled like a school BUS

 

[WhyCry]

It seems India is still struggling to find the right choice of aircraft to fulfill their needs. MMRCA raised a requirement of 130 aircraft. Today after 10 years that requirement has increased to some thing over 200 aircraft.

India wanted to add new fighters to their arsenal for more squadrons. The increase is because of the retirement of old air frames. FYI- Rafale is not replacing all of them,

Any order today by India would come by 2019-2020 and complete by 2030. J-20 / J-31 would also follows a similar schedule for the Chinese and if PAF enters this project then it would be on the same schedule.

Start is correct but not the completion. For only 36 airframes 4-5 years is maximum and induction will be done almost at the same time after training.

Short term solutions are EFT, SU-34 and SU-35.
Most members think that PAF would be going after J-10B or J-10C but they have to understand that the Chinese Engine is not mature...Russian would only allow a more powerful engine once PAF selected a Russian platform (4sqd minimum).

Are any of them even offered. Let alone the possibility of procuring it after the financial hurdles.

So for some time IAF would be loosing aircraft and replacements would not be arriving at the pace they would want. PAF till that time is well ahead in developing JF-17's and ordering any aircraft it wishes

This is true the difference would be less during the time period of 2017-2020. But still very high compared to PAF.

A few years back in the after salala attack China offered Pakistan

The Wall = J11's.

If USA would move aggressively by providing F-16 / F-18 and positioning F-22 operated by USAF then China would provide PAF J-20. It is very clear....

Man this is nuts. PAF has 1980 40 planes and the rest are provided from CSF from 2010 afterwards (18 new and 14 used). F-18 is a reinforced airframe. Pakistan is never offered F-18 not even the used ones A/B. Lets not even talk about the super hornets.

F22 is not provided to NATO allies and/or to their closest nations including UK, japan, Israel. Just to superficially possible, Pakistan is dragging feet to pay $700 million for 8 F16 when you only get less than 2 airframes for that.

Neither J20 is offered to Pakistan. Firing bullets in the air is fine but it doesn't win wars.

China will not to sell anything apart from JF17's or J10 at maximum as they want pakistan to afford most of the investments made by them in JF17 program or someway make it better and exported. China wants pakistan to sell the JF17's to get their returns as promised. But the future for PAF is limited to JF17's for the next 8-10 years. FC31 will be offered to pakistan after its development (and if no other customer is found).

Please keep in mind that J10 can be procured by pakistan but it will come at a huge cost for not only the facilities and maintenance but also for the procurement. J10 is three times costlier than JF17. Another reason why china themselves don't want to sell J10's is they will have to provide funding for the same (by soft loans or joint funding). They don't want to be listed in the foreign aid books of pakistan.

 

[ZEYA]

what ever the speculation condition are complex right now for pakistan so j-10 c or d is the only hope for paf

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The deep strike heavy aircraft makes the enemy's flanks vulnerable. These flanks are the JUGULAR vein of the enemy.

The enemy will protect its flanks at all costs---and in order for it to do so---it will have to reduce its assets from the primary scene of battle.

And as your deep strike aircraft would have long legs---its diversity to pick and chose its direction make the job of the enemy very difficult---.

Now when matched with Hatf 8---you create a serious threat---. The aircraft can carry 2 of them. Then you also have another option---you come up with an air launched version of the babur cruise missile---you just changed the rules of the game. It would also be able to carry 2 CM400 akg's---alongwith a massive arsenal of weapons.

You can also load the heavy with smaller smart bombs---50 lbs or 100 lb bombs---like on 8 hard points---4 each you can have 32 smart weapons----where each one of them can independently target an enemy position or vehicle---.

In this day and age---DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION you rather rather have 28--32 smaller smart bombs between 50-100 lbs capacity than have 4 bombs of 1000 lbs each---.

The heavy aircraft of today are a different breed by themselves. With their powerful massive radars and large jammers---long range flight envelope---and the ability to carry and launch every kind of defensive and offensive weapons---they are a power house by themselves---.

I took a customer on a test drive in a BMW 750iL. He did not know how to drive the bimmer---he was stepping smoothly on the gas pedal---says to me---this car has no acceleration----I told him to release his foot from the gas pedal---then snap it down hard---this massive car rocketted ahead like abullet out of a rifle---that customer almost sh-it in his pants---because it had so much power and was so fast acceleration.

we dont need to give money for J 10 , use 1/100th of that money and start a project to design jet engine, that can change the luck of pak army...
Can u answer Y v r not producing car engine in Pakistan?? WHhile India r producing the Satellite vehicles and we can't make jet engine??

Buddy,

You are not well informed----the world engine----cost CHRYSLER CORP a billion dollars---the 4 cylinder in the Dodge Darts and alfa Romeo and other vehicles---and that was over 5 years ago when it went into full production---so that cost was around 10 years ago when it started.

 

[帅的一匹]

what ever the speculation condition are complex right now for pakistan so j-10 c or d is the only hope for paf

Had PAF pilots flied J10b? Any firm resource.

 

[WhyCry]

Hi,

The deep strike heavy aircraft makes the enemy's flanks vulnerable. These flanks are the JUGULAR vein of the enemy.

The enemy will protect its flanks at all costs---and in order for it to do so---it will have to reduce its assets from the primary scene of battle.

And as your deep strike aircraft would have long legs---its diversity to pick and chose its direction make the job of the enemy very difficult---.

Now when matched with Hatf 8---you create a serious threat---. The aircraft can carry 2 of them. Then you also have another option---you come up with an air launched version of the babur cruise missile---you just changed the rules of the game. It would also be able to carry 2 CM400 akg's---alongwith a massive arsenal of weapons.

You can also load the heavy with smaller smart bombs---50 lbs or 100 lb bombs---like on 8 hard points---4 each you can have 32 smart weapons----where each one of them can independently target an enemy position or vehicle---.

In this day and age---DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION you rather rather have 28--32 smaller smart bombs between 50-100 lbs capacity than have 4 bombs of 1000 lbs each---.

The heavy aircraft of today are a different breed by themselves. With their powerful massive radars and large jammers---long range flight envelope---and the ability to carry and launch every kind of defensive and offensive weapons---they are a power house by themselves---.

I took a customer on a test drive in a BMW 750iL. He did not know how to drive the bimmer---he was stepping smoothly on the gas pedal---says to me---this car has no acceleration----I told him to release his foot from the gas pedal---then snap it down hard---this massive car rocketted ahead like abullet out of a rifle---that customer almost sh-it in his pants---because it had so much power and was so fast acceleration.

I am not sure if you know this but i am wondering how the deep strike will reach their target. I do understand that the war could be made multi directional but this is not possible as indian ocean will be dominated by IN so flying over it not going to be easy(possible). Unless china let pakistan use the bases this is not possible. Also, what I am concerned is air to ground roles will not be possible as su30 mki are super manuverable and air superiority fighter. The survival of the platform is a bigger concern to reach the enemy soil. You will need a air superiority fighter to up the anti.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am not sure if you know this but i am wondering how the deep strike will reach their target. I do understand that the war could be made multi directional but this is not possible as indian ocean will be dominated by IN so flying over it not going to be easy(possible). Unless china let pakistan use the bases this is not possible. Also, what I am concerned is air to ground roles will not be possible as su30 mki are super manuverable and air superiority fighter. The survival of the platform is a bigger concern to reach the enemy soil. You will need a air superiority fighter to up the anti.

Hi,

If you cannot understand---I am not here to explain how it will be done----. There is a great american saying---" the enemy gets to vote as well ".

Had PAF pilots flied J10b? Any firm resource.

Hi,

There were two of them given to paf last year or the end of 2015 for flight testing. And yes many a paf pilots have flown the J10's.