ISI seeks data about CIA operatives

[Mujeeb47]

ISI is the front foot of Pakistan.
Pakistan Army has fought 4 wars but ISI is always in war -
Lt. Gen. (R) Hamid Gul

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Taking it from where Baloch Sahib left off -- ISI like all other intelligence agencies do spy on each other including friendly or allied states and yes Mossad has been caught not once but many times spying on US and vice versa.

This is where we are naive in our assumptions that states behave like human beings -- this fundamental error keeps us from thinking beyond the sub continent and the "Bradari" Mentality. Nothing is for certain and there are no absolutes in relationships between states. There is no such thing as Brotherhood - those days are gone with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the communist comrade/brother thinking. Everyone is for himself, essentially.

Furthermore, this recent game being played out is a mix of Interior Ministry, Foreign Office, and ISI turf wars. ISI does know what is going on and this is just a way of telling Uncle Sam to curtail its activities inside the country. We Pakistanis would be a lot more surprised on how ISI works within its own borders and on its own country men if the truth came out. Let us just say that they are not that stupid or ill informed to know that what Raymond Davis's of this world are doing in Pakistan. A hint, all embassy/consulate cars are shadowed -- and if, as it has been surmised in the press, Mr. Davis was escorting a Big Whig -- they would have been shadowing the Big Whig as well. The question is where were these shadows when all of this was being played out in the streets of Lahore?

It is just game being played out between two agencies that are acknowledged as amongst the greats of the great game players!

My 2C

P.S. As far as the "Front Foot," policies should never be made by Intellegence Agencies just like the vision of future of Pakistan should not be dictated by the Military. Both should be under civillian oversight of some kind. ISI has at times played on its own agendas as was the case with a number of intelligence agecies in the west and near east.

 

[unforgotton_man]

how funny they dont even know who is coming in pakistan lol hang musharraf

 

[Time Assassin]

would this also include that portion of the ISI that is on CIA's payroll? this is a dangerous game to play. The CIA also has a list of known ISI agents in other countries and embassies.

It don't matter how much knowledge they have of ours in outside operations. When it is Operations WITHIN OUR Country, then theres a line to be drawn. I am sure ISI is willing to sacrifice 50 ISI agents working around the world to extract information that could cause problem for Pakistan within. And don't underestimate the ISI they have knowledges themselfs the stuff they know could possibly bring down most of the Arab World Monarchy reign. ISI are fast they know how to handle the secret game of war.

 

[fire_in_shadows]

aisalama alaikum to all n I have a different point of view to this all from many of my other Pakistani bros .. the first thing is the so called guy Raymond Davis did not shoot those I.S.I guys in confusion or like an accident or even in self defence, to me it seems more than that, its a well planned game by CIA and USA and may be I.S.I is also involved into it, the first thing is how come Raymond Davis got to know about those 2 motor cyclisits in a very rushy area and busy traffic? secondly ofcourse someone not only identified those 2 guys to him but also give ordered him to shoot them down since operatives like Raymond Davis can not simply shoot anyone in a foreign country without a clearance or orders from his higher authorities in CIA.

And if we look it that way it was all done on purpose or at least CIA did it willingly there is no doubt about that, I do not know what spy game is behind it but I do know that whatever is happening is a preplanned thing and CIA and U.S.A is in fully control of the situation since they created it fully intentionally rather than a general point of view here or what U.S.A is showing in media that they are kind a confused or got into an unexpected trouble by this incident ..

CIA has an history of doing acts and then putting a mirror behind it to let the ppl see wat they want them to see, Al-Qaida and 9/11 is a very practical and active example of it ..

---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 AM ----------

I also got a doubt that the 2 guys who got killed where working for CIA and not I.S.I, i am not sure about it but whatever it is CIA and U.SA are fully in control of things and they pre-planned it and it wasnt an accident or act of chaos, because people who are extreme professionals like so called Raymond Davis they do not get puzzled simply by getting chased, and they do not do anything un intentional or without the orders/clearance of their handlers in CIA.

Oh and one more thing guys CIA got more hold over Media Including Pakistani Media and International Media than we can think so never ever believe where Media is taking us or which picture media is trying to show us, without a proper justification from your own mind ..

 

[Aamir Hussain]

aisalama alaikum to all n I have a different point of view to this all from many of my other Pakistani bros .. the first thing is the so called guy Raymond Davis did not shoot those I.S.I guys in confusion or like an accident or even in self defence, to me it seems more than that, its a well planned game by CIA and USA and may be I.S.I is also involved into it, the first thing is how come Raymond Davis got to know about those 2 motor cyclisits in a very rushy area and busy traffic? secondly ofcourse someone not only identified those 2 guys to him but also give ordered him to shoot them down since operatives like Raymond Davis can not simply shoot anyone in a foreign country without a clearance or orders from his higher authorities in CIA.

And if we look it that way it was all done on purpose or at least CIA did it willingly there is no doubt about that, I do not know what spy game is behind it but I do know that whatever is happening is a preplanned thing and CIA and U.S.A is in fully control of the situation since they created it fully intentionally rather than a general point of view here or what U.S.A is showing in media that they are kind a confused or got into an unexpected trouble by this incident ..

CIA has an history of doing acts and then putting a mirror behind it to let the ppl see wat they want them to see, Al-Qaida and 9/11 is a very practical and active example of it ..

---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 AM ----------

I also got a doubt that the 2 guys who got killed where working for CIA and not I.S.I, i am not sure about it but whatever it is CIA and U.SA are fully in control of things and they pre-planned it and it wasnt an accident or act of chaos, because people who are extreme professionals like so called Raymond Davis they do not get puzzled simply by getting chased, and they do not do anything un intentional or without the orders/clearance of their handlers in CIA.

Oh and one more thing guys CIA got more hold over Media Including Pakistani Media and International Media than we can think so never ever believe where Media is taking us or which picture media is trying to show us, without a proper justification from your own mind ..

What would be the objective of CIA in doing all this? The objective of ISI is very clear here - get the CIA to tone down its operations or face the consequences and at the same time give a very clear message ot the political leadership that things done without their consent and wish would blow up in their faces! I am trying to figure out how CIA benefits out of this fiasco!!!!

 

[fire_in_shadows]

may be what happens in next few months will tell us a very simple application can be a hidden deal of I.S.I and CIA to throw away the government of PPP, once they get Raymond out an anarchy that will hurt Pakistan even more and rallies on the road just like in Long Walk (when mushi had to go), and taking this incidence as a justification they pump in their resources to make the protest big and then gets into mid term elections and then PML N making a new federal and provincial gov .. may be its all a setup and they have used this incidence to bring zardari and PPP gov to a halt but its just my speculation, may be they have some other objectives behind it but whatever it will be, that will be cleared within next few months I am keeping an good eye on what happens to this case but do remember guys that we should think the right way and try to figure this out that why CIA did it? and what possible benefit they gets out of it .. the time will tell for sure ..

 

[fire_in_shadows]

here another fact which we need to know is the extreme level of cooperation between ISI and CIA due to Ahmad Shuja Pasha and Kiyani those 2 people are like the second generals of USA and Pentagon, and that is why Kiyani got his extension and Ahmad Shuja Pasha is I.S.I chief, so as long as these 2 guys are here we cant even think about I.S.I not cooperating with CIA or not following their demands, so how can a CIA guy simply shoot 2 people like it? of a cooperating agency? there's a lot fishy things about it guys and its not the way it looks like .. and I do think so that even I.S.I is involved into this game .. and you guys got to trust me because of these 2 guys in the PA top I.S.I is having a more than strong and cooperating behavior with CIA just think of it like 2 best friend gals who fell in love with a same guy ..

 

[F86 Saber]

Taking it from where Baloch Sahib left off -- ISI like all other intelligence agencies do spy on each other including friendly or allied states and yes Mossad has been caught not once but many times spying on US and vice versa.

This is where we are naive in our assumptions that states behave like human beings -- this fundamental error keeps us from thinking beyond the sub continent and the "Bradari" Mentality. Nothing is for certain and there are no absolutes in relationships between states. There is no such thing as Brotherhood - those days are gone with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the communist comrade/brother thinking. Everyone is for himself, essentially.

Furthermore, this recent game being played out is a mix of Interior Ministry, Foreign Office, and ISI turf wars. ISI does know what is going on and this is just a way of telling Uncle Sam to curtail its activities inside the country. We Pakistanis would be a lot more surprised on how ISI works within its own borders and on its own country men if the truth came out. Let us just say that they are not that stupid or ill informed to know that what Raymond Davis's of this world are doing in Pakistan. A hint, all embassy/consulate cars are shadowed -- and if, as it has been surmised in the press, Mr. Davis was escorting a Big Whig -- they would have been shadowing the Big Whig as well. The question is where were these shadows when all of this was being played out in the streets of Lahore?

It is just game being played out between two agencies that are acknowledged as amongst the greats of the great game players!

My 2C

P.S. As far as the "Front Foot," policies should never be made by Intellegence Agencies just like the vision of future of Pakistan should not be dictated by the Military. Both should be under civillian oversight of some kind. ISI has at times played on its own agendas as was the case with a number of intelligence agecies in the west and near east.

I can vouch for the information you have provided, ISI indeed is not as ill informed as to not know the difference between a harmless diplomat and a defense contractor(CIA Operative). I remember in words of someone i know that ISI has complete coverage as far as the gulf region.
It’s just that because of the green channel opened by Musharraf at the Islamabad International Airport they could not do anything to stop the agents comming in openly.

The security of our country is in very good hands (MashaAllah), its only that some information is better hidden than discussed in open forums. A hint, always pay attention to rumors, they are not always false.

 

[krash]

Has it been confirmed that the two chaps killed were ISI agents? Cuz at least to me it seems extremely unlikely. Firstly if they were ISI agents then they could not have been tailing Davis without any further support since they were operating on their home turf. Their must have been someone else in an ally or a roof top or in a car etc. watching their backs. And if there was then Mr.Davis would not have been allowed to take those much talked about pictures that he took. Further more he would not have been allowed to escape the site of the shooting. Secondly do you think that the ISI would be so clumsy so as to make their tailing so obvious that the guy even got a shot at them? Thirdly I refuse to believe that a CIA operative would be allowed or willing to shoot and kill two ISI agents in broadly day light inside Pakistan on a very busy street.