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Iranian Economy.....news and discussions

All products should be presented in the free market. Every government effort ever made for cotrolling prices has failed and resulted in shortages, every single time and in every part of the world. Socialism and government-control on economy does not work.
And no, economic problems does not make the populace compliant and happy with a government, it's the exact opposite. Such a thing is one of the most obvious facts about humans.
What about wage and free market ??

Why wages are determined at fixed rate by government but all other things are following the free market ....


And free market doesn't work on heavily sanctions country which 85 % of it's economy controlled by the regime
 
Name a country with more traitors (both inside and outside) than IRI. No country has more enemies right now, not even Russia (whose foreign populace is at least mildly supportive). They are like cancerous tumours (see what I did there...)
I wonder if the governing models have anything to do with this subject :) , I wonder ...

What's up with this traitor subject ?



Hehe , Yes I did notice it.

Your honor in my defense , I have everything to gain from supporting more government control and more to lose in case of less government control !!! ( on personal level)

Iran is a very weird country.
 
Sooner or later , there will be another unrest and what happened in this Autumn would be child play compare to it .... Current government just silencing everyone in public but resentment is growing rapidly among people underneath of social silence ... If till today buying a house become a dream for most Iranians , today buying a car become dream and next year buying a cellphone would be , or maybe buying 1 killo meat ....


By this unjust and unlawful increase of the government employees wage ( the law is that government should increase employees wage up to official inflation percentage) even the government employees will stop supporting the government , the corruption in employees sector will skyrocket and more people will lose faith in government in return ...

Current government thinks the it can silence everyone by force but at this rate most Iranians don't have any hope for the future and people without hope for future won't act normal ....


Blaming everything on the west doesn't work anymore ...


Consider this as an warning from old member of this forum whom spend so much time to observe Iran situation and support it ...
 
Go to hell paid kid , I was here from 2012 with username of Twilight and now Oldtwilight ,
Iran government is curopted self destructive government which is destroying Iran , Iranian culture and shia sect as whole ...

Their supposed fighter jet program started at 1990s and now in 2020s there is no useful results.... 30 years passed ....

Just like their car industry

For understanding the traitorous nature ISI held car industry , I should present you with real example , They just changed pegouet 206 front light and name it 207 and then they stopped production of 206 , the problem is that 207 is almost twice as expensive as 206 .... This is true nature of ISI


There was time when I was happily support IRI but now days I believe if ISI take all the world then it would only bring misfortune to all people of earth and turn them to atheists
Now I am very sure you are a traitor to your country ..you eat Salt of Iran and knief your country in every chance you get.
And I am no kid..when you were sucking your mothers milk I was working on Iranian military systems ... and no... I do not work for mullah either but unlike you I do not betray my motherland.

And by the way these people also disagree with you moron.

img_20230211_183633_635-jpg.916086


img_20230211_195628_470-jpg.916101


Iran Regime change....not happening:azn:
 
Rail network is a good example of why would a socialism system should perform better in short term because of :

Price of energy (if subsidies used)
Lower price of work force
Easier acquisition of land (sometimes by force)

I agree that in capitalism vs socialism models in the same place for subject of rail it would be better to work under a socialism model (for a short term)

your example works when we talk about France under socialism vs France under capitalism but when it comes to France vs UK comparison in rail subject there are other considerations such as cost of whole project, it's necessity, benefits and ...

View attachment 917024

It helps a lot if you connect France through land to some of the wealthiest countries such as Italy ,Germany and Spain.

But building same length of railroad for UK would be much harder and more costlier and less productive.(both land and sea)


Geography and size of your neighbors matters in this example.

A terminological precision if I may. France is not a socialist country. It has a capitalist economy. Just not the most savage form of capitalism out there. These terms describe economies as a whole, rather than specific sectors.

Now when it comes to the time horizon. The French national railway company SNCF was founded in 1938. Eighty-five years on, it's still offering satisfactory services as a state-owned company. So here we see that it's been a viable model over the long term as well.

Concerning economies of scale, I was not just referring to the extent of the network but also to its quality. When the UK privatized its railways, virtually everything went down the drain - infrastructures deteriorating, train services experiencing delays if not simply breaking down, technological progress stalling and so on. Clearly privatization was prejudicial to British railways. Now liberal economists argue that the privatization effort was incomplete because the government retained some regulatory powers and what not. But when compared to France, there's no question that the latter has been more successful during this period.

As far as connectivity to cross-border networks, the UK is actually linked to continental Europe by rail. The so-called Eurostar HSR travels through the Manche tunnel between the British isle and France. From there passengers have access to the rest of the European network. Eurostar itself offers direct services between London and Paris, London and Marne-la-Vallée (where "Euro Disneyland" is located) in the eastern suburbs of Paris, as well as from London to Brussels and Amsterdam.

Eurostar_Train_Connections_Times_Map_FR-.png


Historically the UK has been a pioneer in railway development. Hence why their network is actually dense and its total length pretty elevated.

ae08a48ec6118b6395ac81a3a9a55b63.jpg


Or consider the amount of rail they constructed throughout their South Asian colonial possessions.

In other words, the UK hasn't been suffering any disadvantage in this regard. The infrastructure has been in place for a long time. However privatizing their railways didn't help in terms of network modernization and upkeep, nor in terms of service quality for passengers.

A better comparison would be in the field of education (which almost in any system in this world is a socialism tool).

Is education in more pro socialism system like France works better or is it better in a more pro capitalism system like UK ?

Generally speaking education has become fraught with certain issues in the west because of political factors. But leaving this aside for a minute, the French public education system can indeed pride itself of a significant historic record, especially on four points:

- The high percentage of people with A level diplomas in France. Granted, these include vocational diplomas and the contrast is strong between schools depending on their geographical location (it won't be quite the same in a suburban ghetto of greater Paris like the 93 department and in a bourgeois inner city neighborhood like the 7th district). We can also debate whether the French system, which tries to produce as many A level graduates as possible is really preferable to say, a German type of system where they separate pupils quite early on between three different kinds of schools offering CSE, GSCE and A level diplomas respectively. But still, it's an achievement in its own right.

- Eite centers of higher learning. Most are public establishments but recruit via competition exams (i.e. candidates are ranked as in Iran's konkur). They offer very high level education. This has somewhat regressed with their integration into globalized university networks, however they're still up there in comparison.

- Post-doctoral scientific research. French academia has been of quality, producing a significant share of erudite and prize winning scientists.

- The relative prevalence of state-owned schools and universities resulted in somewhat of a democratization of (higher) education and facilitated access for students with modest financial means. As in every capitalist society, the hereditary nature of education has not been erased, and I believe it intensified in recent decades with ongoing liberalization (this is an assumption, I'd need to verify), but thanks to its structure the system held this in check to some degree.

Then look at the UK. How they gradually set up a debt trap for university students similar to the USA. With those originating from less affluent backgrounds forced to pay back loans and interests for the the better part of their active lives because of constantly rising tuition fees. With British politicians making false pledges, students going on strike etc. Utterly disgraceful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46781569
https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...nts-have-been-misled-and-lied-to-for-20-years
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/sep/19/nick-clegg-apologies-tuition-fees-pledge

Another example would be in the field of industry,
Were Iranians happier with their car makers and their production of Peykan (UK) or they were happier with their Peugeot (France) production ? (in their own era)

Peugeot-Citroën (PSA), which in 2019 merged with Fiat-Chrysler, has been a private company from the start. So was Peugeot itself since its foundation in 1858.
 
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Let's
Now I am very sure you are a traitor to your country ..you eat Salt of Iran and knief your country in every chance you get.
And I am no kid..when you were sucking your mothers milk I was working on Iranian military systems ... and no... I do not work for mullah either but unlike you I do not betray my motherland.

And by the way these people also disagree with you moron.

img_20230211_183633_635-jpg.916086


img_20230211_195628_470-jpg.916101


Iran Regime change....not happening:azn:
Let's see what will happen ...
 


من دامدارهستم بخاطرگرانی خوراک جووکنسانتره بیش از۸۰درصددام مولدخودم راحذف کردم نمیشه که من تولیدکننده جوراکیلویی۱۳هزارتومان خریدکنم ودام زنده برام کیلویی۱۳۰هزارتومان دربیادبعدانرا۸۰یا۹۰هزارتومان بفروشم یک اصطلاحی هسته که میگه ضررراازهرجایی که برگردی سودهسته ماهم تنهاراه چاره رادرفروش دام مولدکه خیلی هم زحمت کشیده بودیم کردیم چون بااین وضعیت شرمنده دام وخانواده و...بودیم
 
A terminological precision if I may. France is not a socialist country. It has a capitalist economy. Just not the most savage form of capitalism out there. These terms describe economies as a whole, rather than specific sectors.
Captop.png

This is how I feel about these three countries.based on following news websites (mostly Iranian government owned) in past few years.

I would like to see your perspective about it.


Now when it comes to the time horizon. The French national railway company SNCF was founded in 1938. Eighty-five years on, it's still offering satisfactory services as a state-owned company. So here we see that it's been a viable model over the long term as well.

Concerning economies of scale, I was not just referring to the extent of the network but also to its quality. When the UK privatized its railways, virtually everything went down the drain - infrastructures deteriorating, train services experiencing delays if not simply breaking down, technological progress stalling and so on. Clearly privatization was prejudicial to British railways. Now liberal economists argue that the privatization effort was incomplete because the government retained some regulatory powers and what not. But when compared to France, there's no question that the latter has been more successful during this period.

As far as connectivity to cross-border networks, the UK is actually linked to continental Europe by rail. The so-called Eurostar HSR travels through the Manche tunnel between the British isle and France. From there passengers have access to the rest of the European network. Eurostar itself offers direct services between London and Paris, London and Marne-la-Vallée (where "Euro Disneyland" is located) in the eastern suburbs of Paris, as well as from London to Brussels and Amsterdam.

Eurostar_Train_Connections_Times_Map_FR-.png


Historically the UK has been a pioneer in railway development. Hence why their network is actually dense and its total length pretty elevated.

ae08a48ec6118b6395ac81a3a9a55b63.jpg


Or consider the amount of rail they constructed throughout their South Asian colonial possessions.

In other words, the UK hasn't been suffering any disadvantage in this regard. The infrastructure has been in place for a long time. However privatizing their railways didn't help in terms of network modernization and upkeep, nor in terms of service quality for passengers.
Paris - Berlin , Paris - Madrid and Paris - Rome railroads makes perfect sense because France shares land borders with Germany , Spain and Italy.so that's why France should have better rail network and they should invest on their capabilities to maximize their gains but when we look at UK apart from it's domestic use of rail they should build this railroad over the sea or they should get over third parties to reach the points of interests and that's why their railing system will not be like France.

So for the countries like UK investing on replacement systems will makes sense like ship and port and airplane and airport.




Generally speaking education has become fraught with certain issues in the west because of political factors. But leaving this aside for a minute, the French public education system can indeed pride itself of a significant historic record, especially on four points:

- The high percentage of people with A level diplomas in France. Granted, these include vocational diplomas and the contrast is strong between schools depending on their geographical location (it won't be quite the same in a suburban ghetto of greater Paris like the 93 department and in a bourgeois inner city neighborhood like the 7th district). We can also debate whether the French system, which tries to produce as many A level graduates as possible is really preferable to say, a German type of system where they separate pupils quite early on between three different kinds of schools offering CSE, GSCE and A level diplomas respectively. But still, it's an achievement in its own right.

- Eite centers of higher learning. Most are public establishments but recruit via competition exams (i.e. candidates are ranked as in Iran's konkur). They offer very high level education. This has somewhat regressed with their integration into globalized university networks, however they're still up there in comparison.

- Post-doctoral scientific research. French academia has been of quality, producing a significant share of erudite and prize winning scientists.

- The relative prevalence of state-owned schools and universities resulted in somewhat of a democratization of (higher) education and facilitated access for students with modest financial means. As in every capitalist society, the hereditary nature of education has not been erased, and I believe it intensified in recent decades with ongoing liberalization (this is an assumption, I'd need to verify), but thanks to its structure the system held this in check to some degree.

Then look at the UK. How they gradually set up a debt trap for university students similar to the USA. With those originating from less affluent backgrounds forced to pay back loans and interests for the the better part of their active lives because of constantly rising tuition fees. With British politicians making false pledges, students going on strike etc. Utterly disgraceful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46781569
https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...nts-have-been-misled-and-lied-to-for-20-years
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/sep/19/nick-clegg-apologies-tuition-fees-pledge
Screenshot(77).png


In 2021-22 there were 679,970 international students studying in the UK. 120,140 of these were from the EU and 559,825 were non-EU.Feb 10, 2023

Screenshot(76).png



Peugeot-Citroën (PSA), which in 2019 merged with Fiat-Chrysler, has been a private company from the start. So was Peugeot itself since its foundation in 1858.
I will answer that question , I think Iranians were happier with Peykan ! (again based on feelings and it could be wrong :) )
 
Which governance model and economic success do Iranians on this thread want to adopt?

I ask because I believe the potential is to be stronger than countries like France and Germany, the huge natural resources can pave the way to development like other gulf countries but even greater as Iran has large young population and fairly high educated population. The sanctions and foreign policy is what currently keeps Iran contained.
 
I would like to see your perspective about it.

UK and France situated on the left hand half of the segment, far closer to unfettered capitalism. Iran's not as near to a socialist economy either. Maybe in the 1980's but no longer since Hashemi. Incidentally, the first decade of the Revolution did not see any economically driven protests to speak of. These are a heritage of market-oriented reforms initiated during Rafsanjani's presidency.

Paris - Berlin , Paris - Madrid and Paris - Rome railroads makes perfect sense because France shares land borders with Germany , Spain and Italy.so that's why France should have better rail network and they should invest on their capabilities to maximize their gains but when we look at UK apart from it's domestic use of rail they should build this railroad over the sea or they should get over third parties to reach the points of interests and that's why their railing system will not be like France.

Majority of train journeys in both countries are domestic.

And as indicated, comparative quality of the systems is yet another matter to consider.

Fact remains that British railways experienced a deep crisis after being privatized. This isn't subject to debate (although different opinions were voiced as to the exact reasons for the crisis). By contrast and despite imperfections of its own, France's national railway company represents a prime example of what a successful public service can look like.

So for the countries like UK investing on replacement systems will makes sense like ship and port and airplane and airport.

Domestic rail transport makes sense in the UK as much as in France. Historically the UK is a pioneer in this domain for a reason. France being a considerably larger and less densely populated country (about the same population for more than twice the landmass), this actually tends to make railways less economical as compared to the UK. So railways are hugely important to the UK as well, with several hundreds of millions of journeys per year.

View attachment 917121

In 2021-22 there were 679,970 international students studying in the UK. 120,140 of these were from the EU and 559,825 were non-EU.Feb 10, 2023

View attachment 917120

There's not necessarily a causal relationship between number of foreign students and quality of education. British universities being more globalized doesn't automatically make them superior. India's fourth, must we conclude that the Indian education system is outclassing the Japanese, which ranks seventh in terms of foreign students?

Also in this case the UK draws benefit from the fact that English is still the primary linguistic tool of communication at the international level.

The French education system equals and beats the British in the four points I evoked. However with capitalist globalization underway, a standardization of sorts along the lines of the Anglo-Saxon model may be taking place, which is a shame especially when it comes to aspects like tuition fees.

I will answer that question , I think Iranians were happier with Peykan ! (again based on feelings and it could be wrong :) )

I know, however the discussion was about private versus state ownership. Both the Rootes Group (maker of the Hillman Hunter a.k.a. Peykan) as well as Peugeot were private companies.

After being confiscated from its former owner Khayyami during the Revolution and nationalized for years, eventually Iran Khodro came to be privatized again. That's when IKCO began engaging in a number of fraudulent schemes on the back of consumers, as described in the excellent documentary below.

 
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UK and France situated on the left hand half of the segment, far closer to unfettered capitalism. Iran's not as near to a socialist economy either.
Okay.

Maybe in the 1980's but no longer since Hashemi. Incidentally, the first decade of the Revolution did not see any economically driven protests to speak of. These are a heritage of market-oriented reforms initiated during Rafsanjani's presidency.
During 70's Iran had extraordinary oil infrastructure with 5.6 million bpd crude oil production and agriculture that could feed close to 35 million people.in those days Iran could balance both scales of production and public needs(for a short term) because world was different and demands also were different.

What you like here is close to idea of cannibalization of industry (which has been built by previous system )and as you know those days were days of war and it required war economy.according to some officials war mentality ended 3 years after Iraq-Iran war so it was till 1991 and Iran ended heavy pro socialism practices in those years.

Majority of train journeys in both countries are domestic.

And as indicated, comparative quality of the systems is yet another matter to consider.

Fact remains that British railways experienced a deep crisis after being privatized. This isn't subject to debate (although different opinions were voiced as to the exact reasons for the crisis). By contrast and despite imperfections of its own, France's national railway company represents a prime example of what a successful public service can look like.



Domestic rail transport makes sense in the UK as much as in France. Historically the UK is a pioneer in this domain for a reason. France being a considerably larger and less densely populated country (about the same population for more than twice the landmass), this actually tends to make railways less economical as compared to the UK. So railways are hugely important to the UK as well, with several hundreds of millions of journeys per year.
Apart from domestic usage of railroads based on the location of each country in world this comparison of UK vs France rail usage wrong in a sense of one benefits a lot by improving it and one benefits less from it.

There's not necessarily a causal relationship between number of foreign students and quality of education. British universities being more globalized doesn't automatically make them superior.
I think majority of these students are free to choose where they would like to continue their studies as they willingly choose UK and no one puts a gun on their head and force it on them to do it in UK.(let's say 99 percent to be safe :) )

India's fourth, must we conclude that the Indian education system is outclassing the Japanese, which ranks seventh in terms of foreign students?

I have same problem with this view about your Iran of 1980s.some of these topics would take decades to shape their forms and show their real weaknesses and powers.

Relatively speaking Japan is getting smaller and India is getting bigger so it's only matter of time and you can see it's signs.

Also in this case the UK draws benefit from the fact that English is still the primary linguistic tool of communication at the international level.
I know very little about recent history of world and creation of USA with it's implications on Great Britain and her rivals.


The French education system equals and beats the British in the four points I evoked. However with capitalist globalization underway, a standardization of sorts along the lines of the Anglo-Saxon model may be taking place, which is a shame especially when it comes to aspects like tuition fees.
Not okay.

On top of that there are 370,000 reasons to support your claim and 690,000 reasons to reject it.

We are talking about choices of kids from wealthy families or highly educated ones so I thing margins of error here is limited. (most of the cases)

Even in education field which almost everywhere in this world enjoys governmental subsidies and usually it's structure shapes by the will of governments one model is performing better even if it is a socialism idea !




I want to put my tin foil hat on my head and say it :
from the moment that government here took control of Azad universities( less subsidized ones) in Iran over all performance of all universities decreased/it didn't increase as it should because more people joined the universities. (scientific research required :) )
 
Looks like Chinese finally starting to invest in Iran.

  • $3.5 billion in fishery, mechanization, arable farming, green houses and dryland farming
  • $4.6 billion worth of Chinese resources under a finance scheme for two major agricultural projects in south and north of the country.
  • projects could start in early April.

also.

Iran to open trade center in China by late March​

center is going to be launched with the aim of pursuing the implementation of the recent agreements and deals signed between the two countries.
 
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Looks like Chinese finally starting to invest in Iran.

  • $3.5 billion in fishery, mechanization, arable farming, green houses and dryland farming
  • $4.6 billion worth of Chinese resources under a finance scheme for two major agricultural projects in south and north of the country.
  • projects could start in early April.

also.

Iran to open trade center in China by late March​

center is going to be launched with the aim of pursuing the implementation of the recent agreements and deals signed between the two countries.
nothing on industry or transport infrastructure ?
only on food and agricultural fields?
that's disappointing .
 
nothing on industry or transport infrastructure ?
only on food and agricultural fields?
that's disappointing .
Out of the $12 billion announced this is only $8.1 billion..So I expect more to come ..
 
Which governance model and economic success do Iranians on this thread want to adopt?
I'm glad you asked :)

Transparent, agile and slim government when it comes to market interference/control.

Why ?
For example

According to the government they issue close to 4600 different licenses and on average it takes 72 days on average to get your licenses which is insane and sometimes without any valid reason your demand for certain licenses will get rejected.

Screenshot(79).png
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Time to start a business 72 days. rank 136 out of 141 countries !
It's just indirect way of government saying pay bribes and I own everything here :)


There are countries in this world that you can get a reply from them in matter of hours for certain permits.

2019 Global Competitiveness Report

From Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum

 

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