Iran power of proxy warfare

[Hack-Hook]

good for you that whatever sherbat you are giving to them they are drinking it with passion.
Take another example of Houthies of yemen

Do they share border with Iran or Saudia?
Do they share genetics with Iran or Saudia?
Do they sharelanguage with Iran or Saudia?
Do they share food with Iran or Saudia?

where majority of Yemenis work? In Iran or Saudia?
and what make them fire ballistic at saudia and not you?

1 more thing. What Iqbal baba is to us Firdousi is to you. I forget the original farsi wording but translation is something like this

Oh Arabs , who eat the meat of lizard and drink the milk of camel
what happened to you that you develop desire for the throne of Iran
O great sky, I spit on you that you have shown me these days.

A question for you did Houthi attacked KSA or it was KSA and co. that attacked them
Did we attacked them ?
You talk as if Ansar-Allah fire missile at KSA for fun . Is it what they tell you guys there

Your tolerance threshold is very high. Unfortunately I won't accept that my countrymen get recruited by foreign intelligence agency during religious pilgrimag

Well your tolerance is also high when for example your countryman are recruited in GCC to oppress natives who want equal right

Oh Arabs , who eat the meat of lizard and drink the milk of camel
what happened to you that you develop desire for the throne of Iran
O great sky, I spit on you that you have shown me these days.

Honestly you guys are so low that you attack the poet because he put a historical quote in his poem . That sentence was not from him it was historical word of then Iran King . And Book of Kings is all about teaching and advising about bad and good how one person lack of virtue and characters lead you to downfall and destruction and how a good deed and manner reward you . I suggest to you read that part completely again this time to the end of that story.

 

[*Awan*]

lol stop this BS, seculars support dahir and sons of soil while islamists don't, there might be come scholars who have this POV
but for the large part this is a left, right debate with nothing else involved
making it anything more is just spreading false BS in society

Ok and what about Aurangzaib?
In his case its also left vs right or there is sectarian factor too?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found something to back my claim

The textbooks that are taught to Pakistani children recount exploits of numerous past Muslim heroes in them. Standing tall amongst these heroes is one Arab by the name of Muhammad bin Qasim, born on 31 December 695 in the city of Taif in modern day Saudi Arabia.

Following are just some of the tokens of Pakistanis’ veneration for their hero.

He is sometimes called ‘the first Pakistani’. Port Qasim, Pakistan’s second major port is named in his honour. PNS Qasim is the name of a Pakistani Naval ship. Qasim is a fairly common first name for Pakistani male children. The day of Yom-e-Babul Islam is observed each year in Pakistan in memory of Muhammad bin Qasim.

Now let us see what we are told about this hero and what we are not.

We are told that Muhammad bin Qasim was an Umayyad general who conquered the Sindh and Punjab regions, now a part of Pakistan, along the Indus River. That at the tender age of just seventeen, he was sent by Caliph Al-Walid-I to lead an army towards South Asia to release Muslim women and children who were kidnapped by the Hindu Raja of the time. That it was due to his conquest of Sindh and Punjab that the era of Islamic rule in South Asia was first launched in real earnest. This much we are told. Pakistani children are supposed to memorize and be examined in.

What we are not told is that the kidnapping event of women and children, though a historical happening by itself, may have been only a part of the legend. That the Umayyad interest in the region may have stemmed more from their desire to control the trade route down the Indus River valley to the seaports of Sindh, an important link in the ancient Silk Road, than anything else. That on certain earlier occasions too, they had unsuccessfully sought to gain control of the route, via the Khyber Pass, from the Turki-Shahis of Gandhara. That by taking Sindh, Gandhara’s southern neighbour, they were ultimately able to open a second front against the Gandhara.

We are also not told some of the other possible reasons for this campaign. That the primary reason cited in the Chach Nama, that authentic document that recounts the history of Sindh in great details, for the expedition by the governor of Basra, Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, against Raja Dahir was a pirate raid off the coast of Debal resulting in gifts to the caliph from the king of Serendib (today’s Sri Lanka) being stolen. That the Meds, a Sindhi tribe also known as Bawarij, had targeted Sassanid shipping in the past too. That they sniped the trade routes frequently from the mouth of the Tigris to the Sri Lankan coast, from their bases at Kutch, Debal and Kathiawar.

We are also not told that possibly the real reason of the campaign may have been purely economic in which the kidnapping of women and children was but one fateful act of these semi-nomadic tribes whose activities disturbed much of the Empire’s shipping trade in the Western Indian Ocean. That the kidnapping incident may only have provided a ‘just reason’ to the rising power of the Umayyad Caliphate to gain a foothold in the Makran, Baluchistan and Sindh regions–an area the Empire builders had been eyeing for a rather long time by then. That one other possible reason for the campaign could be the policy of the local tribes of providing refuge to Sassanid and Arab rebels who fled the Arab advance and the accompanied Umayyad persecution in a quest to consolidate their rule. This we are not told.

We are told that he treated most kindly his new subjects when he became their governor. What we are not told is that where resistance was strong, long-drawn-out and rigorous, Muhammad bin Qasim’s response was rather ruthless. By credible accounts, he inflicted 6,000 deaths at Rawar, between 6,000 and 26,000 at Brahmanabad, 4,000 at Iskalandah and 6,000 at Multan. And that he built many mosques upon the sites of razed Hindu temples.

We are told that his nemesis Raja Dahir was a cruel and unjust ruler and was involved in piracy. That he was the one that kidnapped and tortured the women and children and refused to recant. That he was an immoral man that married his own sister.

What we are not told is that Raja Dahir is also admired by many present day Sindhi Sunni and Shia Muslims. That he had given shelter in Sindh to a well-known follower of Imam Hussian, Muhammad Bin Allafi–a man much sought by the Umayyad in their deadly hunt for eliminating the last of the Ahl-e-Bait (Prophet Muhammad’s immediate family). That, according to some other sources, Dahir had even offered asylum to Hussain ibn Ali, the grandson of Prophet Mohammed, who was being persecuted at home. That as a result of this offer, Hussain was on his way to Sindh when he was seized at Karbala in Iraq and killed most viciously. That according to G.M. Syed, the grand old man of Sindh, “the Sindhis weep for Hussain ibn Ali and they weep for Raja Dahir Sen.” This we are not told.

But above all what we are not told is the manner of this hero’s death and the events leading up to the occasion.

Chach Nama tells of an intriguing yet widely believed tale of Muhammad bin Qasim’s death. According to this account, when Raja Dahir was killed in the battlefield, his daughters were captured as war booty in the Islamic tradition. The Governor, Muhammad bin Qasim, then sent them as ‘presents’ to the Caliph of the time Khalifa Sulayman ibn Abd al-Malik, to become a part of his vast harem. According to the narration, the women tricked the Khalifa into believing that Muhammad bin Qasim had violated them before sending them on. Reportedly, the Khalifa got so incensed for having been sent ‘tainted’ gifts that he ordered Muhammad bin Qasim returned to Syria wrapped in oxen hides, his exploits notwithstanding. The journey is said to have resulted in his death from suffocation.

The aforementioned version attributes the women’s motive for the ploy to exacting vengeance for their father’s death. It also states that upon discovering the trick after the death of Muhammad bin Qasim, the Khalifa deeply repented his action and ordered the sisters buried alive in a wall as a punishment.

The Persian historian Baladhuri, however, states that the Khalifa Abd al-Malik was a political enemy of Umayyad governor Al-Hajaaj ibn Yusuf, Muhammad bin Qasim’s paternal uncle. He persecuted all those who were considered close to Hajaaj after his death. Muhammad bin Qasim was therefore recalled in the midst of a campaign of capturing more territory up north. An honourable man, he reported to his Caliph despite his loyal friends dissuading him from it. Upon arrival, he was promptly imprisoned in Mosul, Iraq. Intensely cruel torture on him started immediately afterwards. So severe was this torture that on one hot July afternoon Muhammad bin Qasim breathed his last during the most extreme of these sessions.

Whichever account is true, we are told none of these.

Two facts, however, remain undisputed.

First, he was 22 years old when his own Caliph ordered him killed. Second, none have read the tombstone marking his grave for none know where he lies.

No tombstone for the hero?

Source

 

[Falcon29]

Background and Iran-Iraq War

During Iran-Iraq war 200,000 - 600,000 Iranian died, 40,000+ became prisoners. Iranian spent 19.5 billion dollars during war. There were some other social issues like widows of dead, where they were encouraged to marry brothers of their dead husbands.
Iran-Iraq conflict remembered through the lives of widows.
Iran Begins To Acknowledge Its Forgotten Women Of War

After this incident, people in-charge of Iranian security apparatus decided to fight Iran wars out side Irans borders by creating proxies in other countries. These proxies not only fight Iran wars but also further its foreign agendas in host countries.

Iran’s Regional Armed Network​

Iran’s Regional Armed Network

Just to clarify to Pakistani brothers and sisters, Palestinians are no proxies of Iran and will never be. Our focus is only on securing support for our cause. Our armed struggle is only towards Israel and will never be directed to anyone else.

Also, regarding Harakat Al Sabareen, it was a small group with couple hundred members. Hamas completely dissolved the organization and confiscated their weapons. Because of them trying to alter cultural and religious dynamic of Gaza in an organized fashion. The leader of the group was arrested and later released. He has since moved to Iran. PIJ was in support of Hamas's decision as well. Which angered Iranians and they made a publication about it in their media. Hamas does not care if Iranians angered. We don't allow alteration of cultural and religious beliefs of our people, and spreading fitnah among them.

Hamas and new mistake

WEST SIBERIA/ TYUMEN - The new Hamas leadership, under the command of Yahya Sinwar, has never concealed that one of the top priorities in the foreign policy of the Palestinian movement will be the resumption of relations with the Axis of Resistance. While relations with Tehran and Hezbollah are...

www.tehrantimes.com

 

[*Awan*]

Well, a simple look at this forum including the present thread tend to suggest otherwise.

Its reaction to recent events where BLA/BLF terrorists are killed in Iran and in return they launch revenge attacks from there.

Western-dominated international financial institutions have recruited the Pakistani establishment to serve their interests. I'd worry about these first. They're the bigger fish.

We know about this problem but this thread is not for that.

What terrorist activities would that be?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346507500678475776

This is a press release from CTD (Counter terrorism department)
Its a list crimes of 2 membrs of zainebyion

A single such incident was reported. And Pakistani authorities claimed Iran was not implicated therein.

Recording and transcript of second video of Kulbhushan Jadhav released by Pakistan army. According to the ISPR, this was recorded in “April 2017”:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1735620963402017

I am Commander Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav. Number 41558Zulu of the Indian Navy

I am a commissioned officer in the Indian Navy. And my alias name was Hussain Mubarak Patel. And I was basically..I’d visited Karachi on 2 occasions in 2005 and 2006 for basic intelligence gathering on Naval installations and subsequent detail. Basically gathering information on the landing sites around Karachi and various naval vessels or whatever I could gather about the navy.

The RAW officials had started sniffing that the Modi government will be in power by 2014. So I was inducted and my services were handed over to Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). And the aim was to see that all the activities around the Mekran Coast and Karachi and Balochistan Interior, Turbat and Quetta were to be organized and nicely coordinated.

Subsequently, me along with Anil Kumar had a meeting with Alok Joshi, wherein the plans and the finalization of the activities along the Mekran Coast and Karachi were finalized. I was stationed in Chahbahar, the Iranian Port City under a fictitious name “Hussein Mubarak Patel” and I was running a business there ‘Kaminda Trading company’. It was a discreet non embassy based operation exclusively meant to conduct meetings with Baloch insurgents and terrorists. The aim of these meetings was always to see that the aims and the targets of RAW to conduct the various terrorist activities within Balochistan are conveyed properly to the insurgents and any kinds of requirements of them are conveyed back to the RAW officials.

My purpose of this time visit to Pakistan was to establish and meet the basic leadership of Baloch sub-nationals, the BLA or the BRA and establish and Infiltrate around 30 to 40 RAW operatives along the Makran Coast for Operations along with Baloch sub-nationals and miscreants or Terrorists.

The aim was to have RAW operatives on field so that they could facilitate and help the Baloch sub-nationals in carrying out precision targets to be carried out… precision…I would say sort of a military sort of a connection to the entire Operation.

Balochistan doesn’t have a movement on the sea, so the aim was to raise within the Baloch sub-nationals a sea front, so that the activities could be properly coordinated from the sea side and subsequently taken on further inwards, may be Quetta or Turbat or maybe interiors of various places.

The subsequent activities which were then handed over by RAW when I subsequently started working for Research and analysis wing, the main aim was focused to Balochistan and the Karachi region. The idea was to see to it that the sub-nationals with in this region were facilitated and supported financially and with arms and ammunition, weapons and some kind of maybe man and material movement also across the coast.

So me being a naval officer, I was given the task of seeing that how they could be landed across the Mekran coast, between Gwadar, Jewani or whichever suitable points were there across this belt. And the main ideology beyond this was that the economic and the various activities which go along the CPEC region between Gwadar and China had to be distorted and disrupted and some destabilised so that the aim was to just basically raise the level of insurgency within Balochistan and the Karachi region.

Research and Analysis Wing through Mr Anil Kumar has been financing and sponsoring a lot of activities within Balochistan and Sindh. The entire Hundi and Hawala operations are undertaken from Delhi and Mumbai via Dubai into Pakistan and during one such important transaction was the $40,000 which was transferred to Baloch sub Nationals via Dubai. Also the finances which are coming into Balochistan and Sindh for various anti-national activities are coming through consulates in Jalalabad and Kandhar and the Consulate in Zahidan. These are very important consulates which are used by Research and Analysis Wing to transfer dollars into the Balochistan movement.

And one such instance was where I was directly involved and I was observing the transaction was when $40,000 were recently transferred from India via Dubai to one such Baloch national operative within Pakistan.

Research and Analysis Wing and Mr Anil Kumar on behalf of RAW had been sponsoring regularly the various terrorist activities within Pakistan. Especially Hazara Muslims, Shia Muslims who move around on pilgrimage between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan were basically to be targeted and killed. They were already being done, it was being done but the level had to be raised to the very high level so that the movement completely stops.

Then the targets on various workers of FWO who were conducting construction of various roads within Balochistan and the third major activity was the IED attacks which were being carried out by the Baloch sub nationals within Quetta, Turbat or various other cities of Balochistan. They were being directly sponsored by RAW.

Mr Anil Kumar has been sponsoring sectarian violence across Sindh and Balochistan and also sponsoring various assassinations across this same region so that instability or some kind of fear is set into the mindsets of the people of Pakistan, and in one such process SSP Chaudhary was assassinated. This was a direct mention by Mr Anil Kumar to me.

The various financing which subsequently happened for the TTP and various other Afghan anti Pakistani terrorist groups led to the attack by TTP on one of the Mehran Naval Bases in which a lot of damage was cost to the Pakistani Navy. Other sort of radar installation attack, the Sui pipeline gas attack, then attacks on civilian bus Stations where some I suppose Pakistani Nationals were being targeted by Sub-Nationals and murdered and massacred so that a sort of disruption in the CPEC is done that was being funded and directly supported by Mr Anil Kumar. He wanted it to be raised to the next level so that complete disruption and complete stoppage of the economic corridor between Gwadar and China is achieved.

One of the operations which was being planned by RAW officials along with Baloch insurgents was a military style attack on Zahedan Pakistani consulate. The aim was to either attack it with a grenade or some kind of RPG or IED attack or then try to harm the consulate General or some kind of vicious attack on the Pakistani consulate in Zahedan. It was being militarily planned, the RAW officials were involved in Iran and the Baloch Sub Nationals who were supposed to carry out the attack or facilitate the entire process were being involved and I was well aware of the plan which was being conducted and how it was being planned.

RAW was sponsoring the setting up of the modern website, a new website which was being already run through Nepal which the Balochistan movement was carrying on, on the Cyber world and the creation of the website, the previous maintenance of the already existing website was being handled by the Research and Analysis wing from Nepal, Kathmandu which was luring people from within Pakistan for various activities to be carried out in the future.

This time while crossing over into Pakistan I travelled all the way from Chahbahar in a private Taxi along with Rakesh to the Iranian Pakistan border near Sarawan. From wherein I crossed into Pakistan along with Baloch Sub Nationals and after about an hour or so I was apprehended by the Pakistani authorities in Pakistan.

Basically the movement into Pakistan for me was, I was on a visa and official visa in Iran and I was moving with my passports so I carried my passports with till the border almost so that if Iranian authorities or Iranian people who are about to check me or I am stopped or checked I should have a legitimate reason for movement within Iran and my subsequent movement into Pakistan and then backwards. While I was not intending to having being caught, so on my movement backwards again I would have had a legitimate reason to go about, with that passport with the legitimate visa of Iran.

During my judicial proceedings which were held under the field General court martial, I was accorded a defence counsel by the officials here which were conducting the entire proceedings.

Today I genuinely after the time having spent in Pakistan I feel very ashamed and I genuinely seek pardon of the acts and sins and crimes I have committed here against the Nation and the people of Pakistan.

Source-1
Source-2

And what's the point, exactly? That clerics can engage into either illicit activities to enrich themselves? Do you need me to dig out examples from non-Shia ones? Here's one posted on PDF by a consultant-level user:

Modarba Scam

Jamia Binoria, SITE, Karachi has been in the news for various reasons recently, from the controversial opinions expressed by its principal, Mufti Muhammad Naeem, on everything under the sun, to charges levelled against the seminary of featuring at the centre of a multi-billion rupee modaraba...

defence.pk

Clerics of whichever sect are humans and one will find among them some who will misbehave in this fashion, and the same goes for every other profession.

And some may have acquired wealth through perfectly legal means. But the majority live simple lives, and the number of poor clerics exceeds the wealthy ones.



The Hozeh-ye 'Elmieh in Qom functions in an autonomous way as well. The state is not dictating them how to operate.

Most Shia clerics are quietists, by the way: they don't participate in politics, nor do they believe in the necessity of doing so - which differs from the Islamic Republic's state ideology.

In modarba case it was one madrassa. But in Iran case its state sponsored. Its unbelievable that state is not involved into something that constitutes 10-20 % of GDP.

The choice is to be made on the basis of their religious understanding. They are free to choose their marja' and there are Shia maraje' in various countries not limited to but including Iran. But khoms is never collected by the Iranian state, nor by any other state anyway, so the contention is pointless to start with.

Please see my reply to Hack-Hook

Enjoy,
This is the most prestigious institution in US. This has been going on since 1970. Saudi fighting Iran war in Pakistan for a long time ago.

Enjoy

Saudi Arabia's hold on Pakistan | Brookings

Madiha Afzal explains how Saudi Arabia has used religious funding in Pakistan as part of Riyadh's bid to expand its influence in the Muslim world, and in its mission to counter Iran.

www.brookings.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saudi Arabia, UAE funded jihadi networks in​

By Michael Georgy
4 MIN READ

(Reuters) - Islamic charities from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates financed a network in U.S. ally Pakistan that recruited children as young as eight to wage holy war, a local newspaper reported on Sunday, citing Wikileaks.
A U.S. diplomatic cable published by WikiLeaks said financial support estimated at $100 million a year was making its way from those Gulf Arab states to a jihadist recruitment network in Pakistan’s Punjab province, Dawn newspaper reported.
The November 2008 dispatch by Bryan Hunt, the then principal officer at the U.S. consulate in Lahore, was based on discussions with local government and non-governmental sources during trips to Punjab, Pakistan’s most populous province.
It said those sources claimed that financial aid from Saudi and United Arab Emirates was coming from “missionary” and “Islamic charitable” organizations ostensibly with the direct support of those countries’ governments.
Asked to respond to the report, Saudi foreign ministry spokesman Osama Nugali said: “Saudi Arabia issued a statement from day one that we are not going to comment on any WikiLeaks reports because Saudi Arabia is not responsible for these reports and we are not sure about their authenticity.”
Saudi Arabia, the United States and Pakistan heavily supported the Afghan mujahideen against Soviet occupation troops in the 1980s.

Militancy subsequently mushroomed in the region and militants moved to Pakistan’s northwest tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan, seen as a global hub for militants.
Since then there has been a growing nexus between militant groups there and in Punjab. In recent years militants have been carrying out suicide bombings seemingly at will in Pakistan, despite military offensives against their strongholds.
The discovery that Osama bin Laden was living in a Pakistani town not far from Islamabad until he was killed by U.S. special forces earlier this month has severely damaged ties between Washington and Islamabad.
The United States wants Pakistan to be a more reliable partner in its war on militancy.

CHILDREN SENT TO TRAINING CAMPS​

But militancy is deeply rooted in Pakistan. In order to eradicate it, analysts say, the government must improve economic conditions to prevent militants from recruiting young men disillusioned with the state.

The network in Punjab reportedly exploited worsening poverty to indoctrinate children and ultimately send them to training camps, said the cable.
Saudi Arabia, home to the fundamentalist Wahhabi brand of Islam, is seen as funding some of Pakistan’s hardline religious seminaries, or madrassas, which churn out young men eager for holy war, posing a threat to the stability of the region.
“At these madrassas, children are denied contact with the outside world and taught sectarian extremism, hatred for non-Muslims, and anti-Western/anti-Pakistan government philosophy,” said the cable.
It described how “families with multiple children” and “severe financial difficulties” were being exploited and recruited, Dawn reported.
“The path following recruitment depends upon the age of the child involved. Younger children (between 8 and 12) seem to be favored,” said the cable.
Teachers in seminaries would assess the inclination of children “to engage in violence and acceptance of jihadi culture.”
“The initial success of establishing madrassas and mosques in these areas led to subsequent annual “donations” to these same clerics, originating in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates,” the cable stated.
Additional reporting by Jason Benham in Dubai; Editing by Alex Richardson
Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

Saudi Arabia, UAE funded jihadi networks in

Islamic charities from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates financed a network in U.S. ally Pakistan that recruited children as young as eight to wage holy war, a local newspaper reported on Sunday, citing Wikileaks.

www.reuters.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Murphy on the Roots of Radical Extremism​

Chris Murphy on the Roots of Radical Extremism

Chris Murphy discusses U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

www.cfr.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those 24,000 religious schools in Pakistan – thousands of them are funded with money that originates in Saudi Arabia

MURPHY ADDRESSES COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, QUESTIONS OUTDATED TENETS OF AMERICA’S APPROACH TO THE MIDDLE EAST | U.S. Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut

Click here to view video WASHINGTON – In an address today to the Council on Foreign Relations, U.S....

www.murphy.senate.gov

If that true then agencies should also look into this.

Now following Imam bargah is funded by iran

 

[Maula Jatt]

Ok and what about Aurangzaib?
In his case its also left vs right or there is sectarian factor too?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found something to back my claim

The textbooks that are taught to Pakistani children recount exploits of numerous past Muslim heroes in them. Standing tall amongst these heroes is one Arab by the name of Muhammad bin Qasim, born on 31 December 695 in the city of Taif in modern day Saudi Arabia.

Following are just some of the tokens of Pakistanis’ veneration for their hero.

He is sometimes called ‘the first Pakistani’. Port Qasim, Pakistan’s second major port is named in his honour. PNS Qasim is the name of a Pakistani Naval ship. Qasim is a fairly common first name for Pakistani male children. The day of Yom-e-Babul Islam is observed each year in Pakistan in memory of Muhammad bin Qasim.

Now let us see what we are told about this hero and what we are not.

We are told that Muhammad bin Qasim was an Umayyad general who conquered the Sindh and Punjab regions, now a part of Pakistan, along the Indus River. That at the tender age of just seventeen, he was sent by Caliph Al-Walid-I to lead an army towards South Asia to release Muslim women and children who were kidnapped by the Hindu Raja of the time. That it was due to his conquest of Sindh and Punjab that the era of Islamic rule in South Asia was first launched in real earnest. This much we are told. Pakistani children are supposed to memorize and be examined in.

What we are not told is that the kidnapping event of women and children, though a historical happening by itself, may have been only a part of the legend. That the Umayyad interest in the region may have stemmed more from their desire to control the trade route down the Indus River valley to the seaports of Sindh, an important link in the ancient Silk Road, than anything else. That on certain earlier occasions too, they had unsuccessfully sought to gain control of the route, via the Khyber Pass, from the Turki-Shahis of Gandhara. That by taking Sindh, Gandhara’s southern neighbour, they were ultimately able to open a second front against the Gandhara.

We are also not told some of the other possible reasons for this campaign. That the primary reason cited in the Chach Nama, that authentic document that recounts the history of Sindh in great details, for the expedition by the governor of Basra, Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, against Raja Dahir was a pirate raid off the coast of Debal resulting in gifts to the caliph from the king of Serendib (today’s Sri Lanka) being stolen. That the Meds, a Sindhi tribe also known as Bawarij, had targeted Sassanid shipping in the past too. That they sniped the trade routes frequently from the mouth of the Tigris to the Sri Lankan coast, from their bases at Kutch, Debal and Kathiawar.

We are also not told that possibly the real reason of the campaign may have been purely economic in which the kidnapping of women and children was but one fateful act of these semi-nomadic tribes whose activities disturbed much of the Empire’s shipping trade in the Western Indian Ocean. That the kidnapping incident may only have provided a ‘just reason’ to the rising power of the Umayyad Caliphate to gain a foothold in the Makran, Baluchistan and Sindh regions–an area the Empire builders had been eyeing for a rather long time by then. That one other possible reason for the campaign could be the policy of the local tribes of providing refuge to Sassanid and Arab rebels who fled the Arab advance and the accompanied Umayyad persecution in a quest to consolidate their rule. This we are not told.

We are told that he treated most kindly his new subjects when he became their governor. What we are not told is that where resistance was strong, long-drawn-out and rigorous, Muhammad bin Qasim’s response was rather ruthless. By credible accounts, he inflicted 6,000 deaths at Rawar, between 6,000 and 26,000 at Brahmanabad, 4,000 at Iskalandah and 6,000 at Multan. And that he built many mosques upon the sites of razed Hindu temples.

We are told that his nemesis Raja Dahir was a cruel and unjust ruler and was involved in piracy. That he was the one that kidnapped and tortured the women and children and refused to recant. That he was an immoral man that married his own sister.

What we are not told is that Raja Dahir is also admired by many present day Sindhi Sunni and Shia Muslims. That he had given shelter in Sindh to a well-known follower of Imam Hussian, Muhammad Bin Allafi–a man much sought by the Umayyad in their deadly hunt for eliminating the last of the Ahl-e-Bait (Prophet Muhammad’s immediate family). That, according to some other sources, Dahir had even offered asylum to Hussain ibn Ali, the grandson of Prophet Mohammed, who was being persecuted at home. That as a result of this offer, Hussain was on his way to Sindh when he was seized at Karbala in Iraq and killed most viciously. That according to G.M. Syed, the grand old man of Sindh, “the Sindhis weep for Hussain ibn Ali and they weep for Raja Dahir Sen.” This we are not told.

But above all what we are not told is the manner of this hero’s death and the events leading up to the occasion.

Chach Nama tells of an intriguing yet widely believed tale of Muhammad bin Qasim’s death. According to this account, when Raja Dahir was killed in the battlefield, his daughters were captured as war booty in the Islamic tradition. The Governor, Muhammad bin Qasim, then sent them as ‘presents’ to the Caliph of the time Khalifa Sulayman ibn Abd al-Malik, to become a part of his vast harem. According to the narration, the women tricked the Khalifa into believing that Muhammad bin Qasim had violated them before sending them on. Reportedly, the Khalifa got so incensed for having been sent ‘tainted’ gifts that he ordered Muhammad bin Qasim returned to Syria wrapped in oxen hides, his exploits notwithstanding. The journey is said to have resulted in his death from suffocation.

The aforementioned version attributes the women’s motive for the ploy to exacting vengeance for their father’s death. It also states that upon discovering the trick after the death of Muhammad bin Qasim, the Khalifa deeply repented his action and ordered the sisters buried alive in a wall as a punishment.

The Persian historian Baladhuri, however, states that the Khalifa Abd al-Malik was a political enemy of Umayyad governor Al-Hajaaj ibn Yusuf, Muhammad bin Qasim’s paternal uncle. He persecuted all those who were considered close to Hajaaj after his death. Muhammad bin Qasim was therefore recalled in the midst of a campaign of capturing more territory up north. An honourable man, he reported to his Caliph despite his loyal friends dissuading him from it. Upon arrival, he was promptly imprisoned in Mosul, Iraq. Intensely cruel torture on him started immediately afterwards. So severe was this torture that on one hot July afternoon Muhammad bin Qasim breathed his last during the most extreme of these sessions.

Whichever account is true, we are told none of these.

Two facts, however, remain undisputed.

First, he was 22 years old when his own Caliph ordered him killed. Second, none have read the tombstone marking his grave for none know where he lies.

No tombstone for the hero?

Source

relax, for the most part
its a left, right debate that'll go on till the end of times probably

 

[*Awan*]

A question for you did Houthi attacked KSA or it was KSA and co. that attacked them
Did we attacked them ?
You talk as if Ansar-Allah fire missile at KSA for fun . Is it what they tell you guys there

Yemen is to KSA what Afghanistan is to Pakistan. Just as its our right that we have friendly government there similarly its KSA right that they have friendly government in Yemen.

Well your tolerance is also high when for example your countryman are recruited in GCC to oppress natives who want equal right

If you are referring to Bahrein, then compare apples to apples
Bahrein offer them nationality, they work in law enforcement and suppress fitna-o-fasad instead of suppressing natives. They don't go to other country to fight on behalf of Bahrein.

Do Iran give these guys nationality? Do they work in your law enforcement? Do they work within Iran?

Honestly you guys are so low that you attack the poet because he put a historical quote in his poem . That sentence was not from him it was historical word of then Iran King . And Book of Kings is all about teaching and advising about bad and good how one person lack of virtue and characters lead you to downfall and destruction and how a good deed and manner reward you . I suggest to you read that part completely again this time to the end of that story.

He was endorsing it when he put kings word in his book. Does your arab allies know what is written regarding them in book of your national poet?

Just to clarify to Pakistani brothers and sisters, Palestinians are no proxies of Iran and will never be. Our focus is only on securing support for our cause. Our armed struggle is only towards Israel and will never be directed to anyone else.

Also, regarding Harakat Al Sabareen, it was a small group with couple hundred members. Hamas completely dissolved the organization and confiscated their weapons. Because of them trying to alter cultural and religious dynamic of Gaza in an organized fashion. The leader of the group was arrested and later released. He has since moved to Iran. PIJ was in support of Hamas's decision as well. Which angered Iranians and they made a publication about it in their media. Hamas does not care if Iranians angered. We don't allow alteration of cultural and religious beliefs of our people, and spreading fitnah among them.

Hamas and new mistake

WEST SIBERIA/ TYUMEN - The new Hamas leadership, under the command of Yahya Sinwar, has never concealed that one of the top priorities in the foreign policy of the Palestinian movement will be the resumption of relations with the Axis of Resistance. While relations with Tehran and Hezbollah are...

www.tehrantimes.com

we understand bro

relax, for the most part
its a left, right debate that'll go on till the end of times probably

but left is composed of whom?
and right is composed of whom?

Don't you see any pattern ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Yemen is to KSA what Afghanistan is to Pakistan. Just as its our right that we have friendly government there similarly its KSA right that they have friendly government in Yemen.

then I call both you and KSA Imperialist.
in fact its only people of Yemen and Afghanistan have the right to decide what government they have it has nothing to do wit KSA and Pakistan.

by the way glad you admitted it was KSA Imperialistic Agenda that resulted in this bloodshed in Yemen

If you are referring to Bahrein, then compare apples to apples
Bahrein offer them nationality, they work in law enforcement and suppress fitna-o-fasad instead of suppressing natives. They don't go to other country to fight on behalf of Bahrein.

Do Iran give these guys nationality? Do they work in your law enforcement? Do they work within Iran?

oh yeah import foreigner to suppress people and change demographic of the land . so brilliant
glad to understand you guys better

He was endorsing it when he put kings word in his book. Does your arab allies know what is written regarding them in book of your national poet?

he was telling thee story of when holy prophet messenger come to the king , do you liked he would have made a story of how he honored the messenger instead of write what actually happened there
again I see your Idea and preferences strange and I assure you Arab's knew about it. and incidentally the people you right knew ask if they knew about it at the time were not considered arabs but were part of Iran and Roman Empire and the reference only applied to tribes in Arabia peninsula ,he even when mentioned that didn't used it for people of Yemen . again suggest you read history in its context

 

[HAIDER]

Its reaction to recent events where BLA/BLF terrorists are killed in Iran and in return they launch revenge attacks from there.


We know about this problem but this thread is not for that.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346507500678475776

This is a press release from CTD (Counter terrorism department)
Its a list crimes of 2 membrs of zainebyion


Recording and transcript of second video of Kulbhushan Jadhav released by Pakistan army. According to the ISPR, this was recorded in “April 2017”:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1735620963402017

I am Commander Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav. Number 41558Zulu of the Indian Navy

I am a commissioned officer in the Indian Navy. And my alias name was Hussain Mubarak Patel. And I was basically..I’d visited Karachi on 2 occasions in 2005 and 2006 for basic intelligence gathering on Naval installations and subsequent detail. Basically gathering information on the landing sites around Karachi and various naval vessels or whatever I could gather about the navy.

The RAW officials had started sniffing that the Modi government will be in power by 2014. So I was inducted and my services were handed over to Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). And the aim was to see that all the activities around the Mekran Coast and Karachi and Balochistan Interior, Turbat and Quetta were to be organized and nicely coordinated.

Subsequently, me along with Anil Kumar had a meeting with Alok Joshi, wherein the plans and the finalization of the activities along the Mekran Coast and Karachi were finalized. I was stationed in Chahbahar, the Iranian Port City under a fictitious name “Hussein Mubarak Patel” and I was running a business there ‘Kaminda Trading company’. It was a discreet non embassy based operation exclusively meant to conduct meetings with Baloch insurgents and terrorists. The aim of these meetings was always to see that the aims and the targets of RAW to conduct the various terrorist activities within Balochistan are conveyed properly to the insurgents and any kinds of requirements of them are conveyed back to the RAW officials.

My purpose of this time visit to Pakistan was to establish and meet the basic leadership of Baloch sub-nationals, the BLA or the BRA and establish and Infiltrate around 30 to 40 RAW operatives along the Makran Coast for Operations along with Baloch sub-nationals and miscreants or Terrorists.

The aim was to have RAW operatives on field so that they could facilitate and help the Baloch sub-nationals in carrying out precision targets to be carried out… precision…I would say sort of a military sort of a connection to the entire Operation.

Balochistan doesn’t have a movement on the sea, so the aim was to raise within the Baloch sub-nationals a sea front, so that the activities could be properly coordinated from the sea side and subsequently taken on further inwards, may be Quetta or Turbat or maybe interiors of various places.

The subsequent activities which were then handed over by RAW when I subsequently started working for Research and analysis wing, the main aim was focused to Balochistan and the Karachi region. The idea was to see to it that the sub-nationals with in this region were facilitated and supported financially and with arms and ammunition, weapons and some kind of maybe man and material movement also across the coast.

So me being a naval officer, I was given the task of seeing that how they could be landed across the Mekran coast, between Gwadar, Jewani or whichever suitable points were there across this belt. And the main ideology beyond this was that the economic and the various activities which go along the CPEC region between Gwadar and China had to be distorted and disrupted and some destabilised so that the aim was to just basically raise the level of insurgency within Balochistan and the Karachi region.

Research and Analysis Wing through Mr Anil Kumar has been financing and sponsoring a lot of activities within Balochistan and Sindh. The entire Hundi and Hawala operations are undertaken from Delhi and Mumbai via Dubai into Pakistan and during one such important transaction was the $40,000 which was transferred to Baloch sub Nationals via Dubai. Also the finances which are coming into Balochistan and Sindh for various anti-national activities are coming through consulates in Jalalabad and Kandhar and the Consulate in Zahidan. These are very important consulates which are used by Research and Analysis Wing to transfer dollars into the Balochistan movement.

And one such instance was where I was directly involved and I was observing the transaction was when $40,000 were recently transferred from India via Dubai to one such Baloch national operative within Pakistan.

Research and Analysis Wing and Mr Anil Kumar on behalf of RAW had been sponsoring regularly the various terrorist activities within Pakistan. Especially Hazara Muslims, Shia Muslims who move around on pilgrimage between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan were basically to be targeted and killed. They were already being done, it was being done but the level had to be raised to the very high level so that the movement completely stops.

Then the targets on various workers of FWO who were conducting construction of various roads within Balochistan and the third major activity was the IED attacks which were being carried out by the Baloch sub nationals within Quetta, Turbat or various other cities of Balochistan. They were being directly sponsored by RAW.

Mr Anil Kumar has been sponsoring sectarian violence across Sindh and Balochistan and also sponsoring various assassinations across this same region so that instability or some kind of fear is set into the mindsets of the people of Pakistan, and in one such process SSP Chaudhary was assassinated. This was a direct mention by Mr Anil Kumar to me.

The various financing which subsequently happened for the TTP and various other Afghan anti Pakistani terrorist groups led to the attack by TTP on one of the Mehran Naval Bases in which a lot of damage was cost to the Pakistani Navy. Other sort of radar installation attack, the Sui pipeline gas attack, then attacks on civilian bus Stations where some I suppose Pakistani Nationals were being targeted by Sub-Nationals and murdered and massacred so that a sort of disruption in the CPEC is done that was being funded and directly supported by Mr Anil Kumar. He wanted it to be raised to the next level so that complete disruption and complete stoppage of the economic corridor between Gwadar and China is achieved.

One of the operations which was being planned by RAW officials along with Baloch insurgents was a military style attack on Zahedan Pakistani consulate. The aim was to either attack it with a grenade or some kind of RPG or IED attack or then try to harm the consulate General or some kind of vicious attack on the Pakistani consulate in Zahedan. It was being militarily planned, the RAW officials were involved in Iran and the Baloch Sub Nationals who were supposed to carry out the attack or facilitate the entire process were being involved and I was well aware of the plan which was being conducted and how it was being planned.

RAW was sponsoring the setting up of the modern website, a new website which was being already run through Nepal which the Balochistan movement was carrying on, on the Cyber world and the creation of the website, the previous maintenance of the already existing website was being handled by the Research and Analysis wing from Nepal, Kathmandu which was luring people from within Pakistan for various activities to be carried out in the future.

This time while crossing over into Pakistan I travelled all the way from Chahbahar in a private Taxi along with Rakesh to the Iranian Pakistan border near Sarawan. From wherein I crossed into Pakistan along with Baloch Sub Nationals and after about an hour or so I was apprehended by the Pakistani authorities in Pakistan.

Basically the movement into Pakistan for me was, I was on a visa and official visa in Iran and I was moving with my passports so I carried my passports with till the border almost so that if Iranian authorities or Iranian people who are about to check me or I am stopped or checked I should have a legitimate reason for movement within Iran and my subsequent movement into Pakistan and then backwards. While I was not intending to having being caught, so on my movement backwards again I would have had a legitimate reason to go about, with that passport with the legitimate visa of Iran.

During my judicial proceedings which were held under the field General court martial, I was accorded a defence counsel by the officials here which were conducting the entire proceedings.

Today I genuinely after the time having spent in Pakistan I feel very ashamed and I genuinely seek pardon of the acts and sins and crimes I have committed here against the Nation and the people of Pakistan.

Source-1
Source-2



In modarba case it was one madrassa. But in Iran case its state sponsored. Its unbelievable that state is not involved into something that constitutes 10-20 % of GDP.



Please see my reply to Hack-Hook


If that true then agencies should also look into this.

Now following Imam bargah is funded by iran

You put a lot of effort to find one ....you failed to prove anything. I am suprise you don't see how the Saudi funding has destroyed the whole fabric of Pakistan, extremism, terrorism, bomb blast, suicide bombing ...Since WOT the score of crossed way beyond 80,000 of our all security agencies ..

 

[SalarHaqq]

Its reaction to recent events where BLA/BLF terrorists are killed in Iran and in return they launch revenge attacks from there.

There's no evidence that they use Iranian territory with the consent of Iranian authorities. I don't trust social media and other reports from Pakistani sources known for their pro-western / pro-PGCC and anti-Iran inclinations. Same goes for elements inside the Pakistani establishment which adopt a similar position. Therefore to me, only explicit, hard evidence would be convincing.

While there's an uptick in the commenting against Iran right now, this has been a general, constant feature here. With heavy amounts of hostility and false assumptions peddled against Iran on a regular basis.

We know about this problem but this thread is not for that.7

But the respective proportions of user reactions to both topics tell something about their overall viewpoint.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346507500678475776

This is a press release from CTD (Counter terrorism department)
Its a list crimes of 2 membrs of zainebyion

I'm afraid I cannot read Urdu.

Recording and transcript of second video of Kulbhushan Jadhav released by Pakistan army. According to the ISPR, this was recorded in “April 2017”:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1735620963402017

I don't see him mention Iran partaking in these activities.

 

[Foinikas]

I have infographics of their enemy groups and Kurds in Syria too,if you want me to post them.

 

[*Awan*]

then I call both you and KSA Imperialist.
in fact its only people of Yemen and Afghanistan have the right to decide what government they have it has nothing to do wit KSA and Pakistan.

by the way glad you admitted it was KSA Imperialistic Agenda that resulted in this bloodshed in Yemen

Imperialists don't pay medical bills, tuition fees, send food trucks and give nationality.

Is the reward for good [anything] but good?
Quran 55:60

so if we did good then its our right to expect good in return.

Tell me how many Iraqis, Syrians and Yemenis come to Iran for refuge or medical treatment? So how is imperialist?

oh yeah import foreigner to suppress people and change demographic of the land . so brilliant
glad to understand you guys better

why you don't apply same logic for Syria?

he was telling thee story of when holy prophet messenger come to the king , do you liked he would have made a story of how he honored the messenger instead of write what actually happened there
again I see your Idea and preferences strange and I assure you Arab's knew about it. and incidentally the people you right knew ask if they knew about it at the time were not considered arabs but were part of Iran and Roman Empire and the reference only applied to tribes in Arabia peninsula ,he even when mentioned that didn't used it for people of Yemen . again suggest you read history in its context

Ambassador was from city and not from desert. Basically statement is referring to whole ethnicity and desert dwellers.

This is the thing that I like about your country how you guys build narrative, how you sell your story
you look down upon particular ethnicity or group but same people are ready to die for your cause.

Exceptional

 

[*Awan*]

You put a lot of effort to find one ....you failed to prove anything. I am suprise you don't see how the Saudi funding has destroyed the whole fabric of Pakistan, extremism, terrorism, bomb blast, suicide bombing ...Since WOT the score of crossed way beyond 80,000 of our all security agencies ..

Haider sahib

I gave you name of place and identified that particular imam bargah which was built by Iranian funds, why is it not enough?

Regarding terrorism,
All this mess started when Iranian tried to export their ideology to regional countries including Pakistan and still they are doing that.
Tehreek-e-Jafaria

Sipa-e sahaba was created to counter sipa-e-muhammadi and
lashker-e-jhangvi was created in response to lashker-e-mehdi. But i understand that its over simplification.

TTP is Indian, Afghan and American creation and they are deobandi not wahabi/ehle hadith.
I know that according to your believes Imam Mehdi will not appear until their will be kind of civil war in Saudia but please don't let your hate blind you.

 

[Maula Jatt]

I have infographics of their enemy groups and Kurds in Syria too,if you want me to post them.

View attachment 815116

View attachment 815117







View attachment 815118

This means they have no plans for Syria except constant caos

 

[*Awan*]

There's no evidence that they use Iranian territory with the consent of Iranian authorities. I don't trust social media and other reports from Pakistani sources known for their pro-western / pro-PGCC and anti-Iran inclinations. Same goes for elements inside the Pakistani establishment which adopt a similar position. Therefore to me, only explicit, hard evidence would be convincing.

While there's an uptick in the commenting against Iran right now, this has been a general, constant feature here. With heavy amounts of hostility and false assumptions peddled against Iran on a regular basis.

Please read how ex-wife of Iranian military attaché to Pakistan became the first lady.
Nahid Mirza

Cousin of this women Nusrat Ispahani another Iranian women got married to Zulfiqar Bhutto founder of PPP(2nd or 3rd largest political party) and father of Benazir Bhutto who gave Iran centrifuges in 1992.

So Irani milk is running in veins of Pakistani elite.

Iskender Mirza (President of Pakistan) ,direct descendent of Mir Jaffer of Bengal and x-Army chief Musa Khan are buried in Iran.

So our politicians and establishment were always pro-Iran. The recent anti Iran sentiments are because of incidents in Baluchistan.

Streets of Pakistan

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443617020147347461

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443618838495514626

But the respective proportions of user reactions to both topics tell something about their overall viewpoint.

As explained above recent events dominated the topics of discussion.

I'm afraid I cannot read Urdu.

I posted tweet in response when you asked for proof that member of zainebyon are involved in terrorism in Pakistan.
Its press release from counter terrorism department of police where they mentioned 2 members of sipa-e-muhammad zainebyon brigade Agha Hassan group.
On top is list of crimes(target killing) of karar Hussain and on bottom is list of crimes(political and sectarian target killing) of kamran haider.
both of them were trained in making bombs, firing anti aircraft guns, making suicide jackets and counter surveillance.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1406599329985576961

basically as the guy said, groups like Hezbollah in different countries including Pakistan.

I don't see him mention Iran partaking in these activities.

Uzair Baloch was spying on our naval installations.
again in urdu, sorry for that

I have infographics of their enemy groups and Kurds in Syria too,if you want me to post them.

View attachment 815116

View attachment 815117







View attachment 815118

Thank you for your input.

 

[*Awan*]

Thank you all the members who contributed in this thread.

Few things to be noted down

• There is very sophisticated network of khums collection from Gilgit to Karachi and Lahore to Quetta.
• 50% of this Khums (Shim-e-Imam) get smuggled to Iran. Khums = 20% of savings, quite big amount
• How Iranian intelligence identify and recruit Pakistanis. Specially bureaucrats and people from security and strategic institutions.
• Learn and analyze how they created so much sophisticated network of proxies and their ability to mange their expenses.