Iran power of proxy warfare

[HAIDER]

I think qureshi is shia. He is relative of shia syeds of shah jewna Proof

apki marzi bhai .... pher tu Shia are 85 to 90 percent in Pakistan

 

[fitpOsitive]

And BTW, shias of Pakistan are equal Pakistanis and I simply don't have anything against them. In fact I am a big fan because all great guys from sir agha khan to Quaid were Shia. So my posts against Iran should be taken against Iran, not Shia Pakistanis or shias of anywhere.

 

[HAIDER]

And BTW, shias of Pakistan are equal Pakistanis and I simply don't have anything against them. In fact I am a big fan because all great guys from sir agha khan to Quaid were Shia. So my posts against Iran should be taken against Iran, not Shia Pakistanis or shias of anywhere.

Yes, but it ends up on generalizing the Shia of Pakistan. Shia are no perfect like any other nation, moles in every nation. But, generalization leads to Tutsi and Hutu type massacres ...When you talk to any American and you address " You American " he will stop you right there and ask you to address those who formulate the policy, not me.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Other than shias no one is Pakistan is obsessed with Iran. You are way way down in our priorities list

Well, a simple look at this forum including the present thread tend to suggest otherwise.

but at the same time your establishment is recruiting my countrymen to fight for its interest

Western-dominated international financial institutions have recruited the Pakistani establishment to serve their interests. I'd worry about these first. They're the bigger fish.

and those people are involved in terrorists activities.

What terrorist activities would that be?

Your land is being used by our enemy to launch spies.

A single such incident was reported. And Pakistani authorities claimed Iran was not implicated therein.

It was not one off incident.

And what's the point, exactly? That clerics can engage into either illicit activities to enrich themselves? Do you need me to dig out examples from non-Shia ones? Here's one posted on PDF by a consultant-level user:

Modarba Scam

Jamia Binoria, SITE, Karachi has been in the news for various reasons recently, from the controversial opinions expressed by its principal, Mufti Muhammad Naeem, on everything under the sun, to charges levelled against the seminary of featuring at the centre of a multi-billion rupee modaraba...

defence.pk

Clerics of whichever sect are humans and one will find among them some who will misbehave in this fashion, and the same goes for every other profession.

And some may have acquired wealth through perfectly legal means. But the majority live simple lives, and the number of poor clerics exceeds the wealthy ones.

Your state exercise influence on these mujtahids through the Alma mater in Qum.

The Hozeh-ye 'Elmieh in Qom functions in an autonomous way as well. The state is not dictating them how to operate.

Most Shia clerics are quietists, by the way: they don't participate in politics, nor do they believe in the necessity of doing so - which differs from the Islamic Republic's state ideology.

Well only a shia can answer on what basis they choose a particular marja and why they send Khums to Iran instead of distributing within Pakistan.

The choice is to be made on the basis of their religious understanding. They are free to choose their marja' and there are Shia maraje' in various countries not limited to but including Iran. But khoms is never collected by the Iranian state, nor by any other state anyway, so the contention is pointless to start with.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Yes, but it ends up on generalizing the Shia of Pakistan. Shia are no perfect like any other nation, moles in every nation. But, generalization leads to Tutsi and Hutu type massacres ...When you talk to any American and you address " You American " he will stop you right there and ask you to address those who formulate the policy, not me.

Thats an issue and I do consider that it's Pakistans fault that we let our Shia youth to fall in the hands of Iran. If a small group from our youth can destroy 2 countries, then what can we achieve if we just use our youth for constructive purposes.
So I being a sunni beg apologies from all shias of this forum who were unduly targetted by jahil awam of Pakistan.

 

[Maula Jatt]

The more sectarianists blow their Iran-themed cover when pushing their agenda, which in fact consists in targeting Pakistani Shias, and once they're done with them, to attack the Sunni Barelvis and other sufis, the more moderators here will be forced to intervene in order to avert conflicts between Pakistani users.

So in a sense, this increasing demonization of Shia Pakistanis can lead to much needed moderating action. Iran is merely a pretext for certain elements. They'll never get a chance to touch Iran, which is too powerful, and they know it. But will take their rabid hatred out on local Shia Muslim civilians instead, who represent far easier targets.

@fitpOsitive Bhai notice karo deemagh ki khel
Kah raha hey key jab Iran ko hamla sirf pretext hai, jub Faris meh hamla tog asal mein tum pey hamla hai
Salvation Sirf Iran ke saath hai, hum hi kher khwan hain tumharey is dunya main

And BTW, shias of Pakistan are equal Pakistanis and I simply don't have anything against them. In fact I am a big fan because all great guys from sir agha khan to Quaid were Shia. So my posts against Iran should be taken against Iran, not Shia Pakistanis or shias of anywhere.

Isko kaha hai tum ne kaha Shia=/Iran
Yeh dimagh ke khel Raha hai keh Iran= Shia
Saudis did the same thing in the 80s

 

[SaadH]

Pakistan k sab politicians bralevi type nhi hain? Imran khan zardari nawaz all of them visit darbars

Don't pay heed to this foolish propaganda about Barelwis being targeted in Pakistan.

If anything Barelwis are the first to throw out takfir and have lynched, targetted and killed many or false charges of blasphemy.

Pakistan's state religion is barelwism and it has never been taken on since all rulers fear it's power.

State has only targeted deobandi/wahabi groups, everyone else has been left alone due to their overwhelming majority and affinities.

 

[fitpOsitive]

@fitpOsitive Bhai notice karo deemagh ki khel
Kah raha hey key jab Iran ko hamla sirf pretext hai, jub Faris meh hamla tog asal mein tum pey hamla hai
Salvation Sirf Iran ke saath hai, hum hi kher khwan hain tumharey is dunya main


Isko kaha hai tum ne kaha Shia=/Iran
Yeh dimagh ke khel Raha hai keh Iran= Shia
Saudis did the same thing in the 80s

Daikho bhai, we declared qadianis non-Muslims. But qadianis fell into the hands of others. Similar was the case of shias. In Pakistan, Pakistani sunni Punjabi lehendai sentiment and established influence is so great that every other living thing on the soil of Pakistan feels threatened and insecure. And trust me, security is much needed and basic necessity of every human being.
Many of my Shia friends talks about Iran as if Iran is the only right Muslim country left on the face of earth. The reason is the same, they feel insecure and Iran seems the only country saving them.
So all we have to do is to take care of our people at home. Secure them, and majority of them will pay back.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I don't know either but your ayat ullahs are making fool of ordinary people in name of ehle byat.

have you considered that the people you think are fooled think as you guys as the ones who were tricked .
the debate on this matter is more than 1400 years old and Only God knows the truth

I don't know what type of proof you need and why a rich government destabilize itself by arresting someone only for few hundred thousand dollars who have large influence?

Again what I said in beginning of this thread and why we are arguing,
Your state use sect to destabilize other countries and further her agenda.

put pressure on them , very simple
and in Bahrain Iran did zero intervention
no matter what zero evidence on any wrongdoing provided here

Ideally what we want is marja should be Pakistani and money should remain within Pakistan. What I said earlier or tried to earlier in thread was Shim-e-imam go to Iran in dollar form and Shim-e-saddat remain in Pakistan and distributed in local syeds.

Khums is collected in rupees but then converted to dollars from local exchange companies. Amount remain below a certain threshold to avoid triggering of notifications and these dollars then sent to Iran which is later used pay expenses of proxies.

its not like that

we have one but for some reason my countrymen prefer ayatullahs of your country.

well here i see some serious issue that you must solve on your side

I know how hundi and hawala works. What you are saying is ideal situation and what I am saying is money dos go to Iran through smuggling.
Ask any Pakistani shia in this forum that they should swear in name of Ali r.a and Hussain r.a that they will not lie or do taqiya and their khums money don't go to Iran.
And you will find your answer.

Taqia only is applicable and can be used if your life be in danger , wonder why some people forget that small technicality . they give the money to the representative of Marja in Pakistan , how can they knew what will happen with it ?
and usually the money is smuggled out of Iran not inside Iran

Thank you for your honesty. Respect.

1 more question, how you will feel if saudi government try to recruit your citizen when they go for umra or hajj?

feel nothing , their own business as long as they work outside Iran and don't raise gun against Iranian

Just take the example of Iraq, they fought with you guys for 8 years, Hazrat Ali r.a is burried in Iraq. Karbala is in Iraq but still shias of that country is loyal to you and take orders from your government.

Just wow

you overestimate that , to me they are loyal to an idea and they cooperate with us as long as we upheld that Idea

Just take the example of Iraq, they fought with you guys for 8 years, Hazrat Ali r.a is burried in Iraq. Karbala is in Iraq but still shias of that country is loyal to you and take orders from your government.

Just wow

you overestimate that , to me they are loyal to an idea and they cooperate with us as long as we upheld that Idea

Iran destroyed Pakistans religious harmony. Killed thousands of ulama. Attacked Pakistans economic interests. Hijacked political parties like MQM(yes, people don't talk about it) and PPP. Helped Israel to keep Israel's proxy wars on Syria alive till Israel changed water flow from Iraq to sea of Galilee. Iran supported terror in Iraq against sunnis, also terror in Middle East.
Each second we were hearing that Iran will be attacked, but never got attacked. But in the process Iran destroyed many countries from within.

Wow Just Wow

 

[*Awan*]

way too busy
will reply on weekend

 

[*Awan*]

If you don't know anything about Pakistani shia or anyone else, don't write. You are doing exactly what ex Gen Mohiuddin Haider said after his brother's death.... TTP/LEJ killed his brother because they thought he is Shia, the killer admit he thought he is Shia by name . Mir Shakeel is sunni ....... lol ....kahan kahan sa pakar ka lata hoo ....
Saudi govt is doing an excellent job in Pakistan. After losing thousands of Pakistani in the terrorist attacks from TTP /LEJ etc those who follow Saudi imported ideology, we can not dare to name Saudi massive funding in our madrassah

@Sainthood 101 ya tumhar sunnio ko bhi shia bol ka marwy ga .... lol

@waz what all this nonsense ..

Mir Shakeel is sunni because his daughter is married to Jahangir Siddique son?

Ask your other sources he is shia or sunni. And by the way other indicator is maharem when everything goes black.

Show me a madrassa which is funded by Saudia after afghan jihad and I will show you Imam bargah which was and is being funded by Iranians.

 

[HAIDER]

Mir Shakeel is sunni because his daughter is marries Jahangir Siddique son?

Ask your other sources he is shia or sunni. And by the way other indicator is maharem when everything goes black.

Show me a madrassa which is funded by Saudia after afghan jihad and I will show you Imam bargah which was and is being funded by Iranians.

Enjoy,
This is the most prestigious institution in US. This has been going on since 1970. Saudi fighting Iran war in Pakistan for a long time ago.

Enjoy

Saudi Arabia's hold on Pakistan | Brookings

Madiha Afzal explains how Saudi Arabia has used religious funding in Pakistan as part of Riyadh's bid to expand its influence in the Muslim world, and in its mission to counter Iran.

www.brookings.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saudi Arabia, UAE funded jihadi networks in​

By Michael Georgy
4 MIN READ

(Reuters) - Islamic charities from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates financed a network in U.S. ally Pakistan that recruited children as young as eight to wage holy war, a local newspaper reported on Sunday, citing Wikileaks.
A U.S. diplomatic cable published by WikiLeaks said financial support estimated at $100 million a year was making its way from those Gulf Arab states to a jihadist recruitment network in Pakistan’s Punjab province, Dawn newspaper reported.
The November 2008 dispatch by Bryan Hunt, the then principal officer at the U.S. consulate in Lahore, was based on discussions with local government and non-governmental sources during trips to Punjab, Pakistan’s most populous province.
It said those sources claimed that financial aid from Saudi and United Arab Emirates was coming from “missionary” and “Islamic charitable” organizations ostensibly with the direct support of those countries’ governments.
Asked to respond to the report, Saudi foreign ministry spokesman Osama Nugali said: “Saudi Arabia issued a statement from day one that we are not going to comment on any WikiLeaks reports because Saudi Arabia is not responsible for these reports and we are not sure about their authenticity.”
Saudi Arabia, the United States and Pakistan heavily supported the Afghan mujahideen against Soviet occupation troops in the 1980s.

Militancy subsequently mushroomed in the region and militants moved to Pakistan’s northwest tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan, seen as a global hub for militants.
Since then there has been a growing nexus between militant groups there and in Punjab. In recent years militants have been carrying out suicide bombings seemingly at will in Pakistan, despite military offensives against their strongholds.
The discovery that Osama bin Laden was living in a Pakistani town not far from Islamabad until he was killed by U.S. special forces earlier this month has severely damaged ties between Washington and Islamabad.
The United States wants Pakistan to be a more reliable partner in its war on militancy.

CHILDREN SENT TO TRAINING CAMPS​

But militancy is deeply rooted in Pakistan. In order to eradicate it, analysts say, the government must improve economic conditions to prevent militants from recruiting young men disillusioned with the state.

The network in Punjab reportedly exploited worsening poverty to indoctrinate children and ultimately send them to training camps, said the cable.
Saudi Arabia, home to the fundamentalist Wahhabi brand of Islam, is seen as funding some of Pakistan’s hardline religious seminaries, or madrassas, which churn out young men eager for holy war, posing a threat to the stability of the region.
“At these madrassas, children are denied contact with the outside world and taught sectarian extremism, hatred for non-Muslims, and anti-Western/anti-Pakistan government philosophy,” said the cable.
It described how “families with multiple children” and “severe financial difficulties” were being exploited and recruited, Dawn reported.
“The path following recruitment depends upon the age of the child involved. Younger children (between 8 and 12) seem to be favored,” said the cable.
Teachers in seminaries would assess the inclination of children “to engage in violence and acceptance of jihadi culture.”
“The initial success of establishing madrassas and mosques in these areas led to subsequent annual “donations” to these same clerics, originating in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates,” the cable stated.
Additional reporting by Jason Benham in Dubai; Editing by Alex Richardson
Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

Saudi Arabia, UAE funded jihadi networks in

Islamic charities from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates financed a network in U.S. ally Pakistan that recruited children as young as eight to wage holy war, a local newspaper reported on Sunday, citing Wikileaks.

www.reuters.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Murphy on the Roots of Radical Extremism​

Chris Murphy on the Roots of Radical Extremism

Chris Murphy discusses U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

www.cfr.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those 24,000 religious schools in Pakistan – thousands of them are funded with money that originates in Saudi Arabia

MURPHY ADDRESSES COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, QUESTIONS OUTDATED TENETS OF AMERICA’S APPROACH TO THE MIDDLE EAST | U.S. Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut

Click here to view video WASHINGTON – In an address today to the Council on Foreign Relations, U.S....

www.murphy.senate.gov

 

[*Awan*]

This thread should remain so we can talk about it, it's important

But dropping names like that is highly irresponsible, kuch bhi hi sakta is mulk mein darna chahiye... @*Awan*
Please don't do that and edit, don't make this a secterion crap show

This guy just made a marginalized groups targetted even dropping names this thread is not good for them and listen to haider and you are doing them unecessarily dirty.. Jeopardizing security of others

Don't worry. they are untouchables.

Example, why naming is important.
when somebody is abusing Muhammad Bin Qasim and arguing whom we should support?
an invader or son of soil Raja Dahir?
Then read the names of those persons who are abusing him what is common in them and why are they doing that?

Answer: Because a certain sect think he was here to hunt those ehle byat who ran from the persecution of Umayyads. remember MBQ was nephew of Hajjaj bin Yousef.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Don't worry. they are untouchables.

Example, why naming is important.
when somebody is abusing Muhammad Bin Qasim and arguing whom we should support?
an invader or son of soil Raja Dahir?
Then read the names of those persons who are abusing him what is common in them and why are they doing that?

Answer: Because a certain sect think he was here to hunt those ehle byat who ran from the persecution of Umayyads. remember MBQ was nephew of Hajjaj bin Yousef.

lol stop this BS, seculars support dahir and sons of soil while islamists don't, there might be come scholars who have this POV
but for the large part this is a left, right debate with nothing else involved
making it anything more is just spreading false BS in society

 

[*Awan*]

have you considered that the people you think are fooled think as you guys as the ones who were tricked .
the debate on this matter is more than 1400 years old and Only God knows the truth

put pressure on them , very simple
and in Bahrain Iran did zero intervention
no matter what zero evidence on any wrongdoing provided here

its not like that

well here i see some serious issue that you must solve on your side

In order to avoid going in circles let ask a Pakistani shia directly, a person of your choice whom you think is very knowledgeable, sane and logical
Ask him that can he swear in name of ehle byat and in particular 5 tn that his money or Pakistani shias money don't go to Iran and he is not lying or doing taqiya before/during and after writing this, if he is lying or doing taqiya then on judgement day he should not benefit from their shifa'at.

If he does that then you are right and I am wrong and I will openly apologies on this thread.

Taqia only is applicable and can be used if your life be in danger , wonder why some people forget that small technicality . they give the money to the representative of Marja in Pakistan , how can they knew what will happen with it ?
and usually the money is smuggled out of Iran not inside Iran

You guys do taqia when ever there is fear of loss, loss can be of life, money, influence, reputation and prestige.

feel nothing , their own business as long as they work outside Iran and don't raise gun against Iranian

Your tolerance threshold is very high. Unfortunately I won't accept that my countrymen get recruited by foreign intelligence agency during religious pilgrimage.

you overestimate that , to me they are loyal to an idea and they cooperate with us as long as we upheld that Idea

good for you that whatever sherbat you are giving to them they are drinking it with passion.
Take another example of Houthies of yemen

Do they share border with Iran or Saudia?
Do they share genetics with Iran or Saudia?
Do they sharelanguage with Iran or Saudia?
Do they share food with Iran or Saudia?

where majority of Yemenis work? In Iran or Saudia?
and what make them fire ballistic at saudia and not you?

1 more thing. What Iqbal baba is to us Firdousi is to you. I forget the original farsi wording but translation is something like this

Oh Arabs , who eat the meat of lizard and drink the milk of camel
what happened to you that you develop desire for the throne of Iran
O great sky, I spit on you that you have shown me these days.