No they are literally already replaced. As provided with photo evidence.
That photo in no way provided proof that those systems are actually being used by your UAVs. If that was the case, we could not be having ample evidence of these UAVs using foreign components would we?
SPECIAL REPORT – Killer optics: Exports of WESCAM sensors to Turkey
"Since 2017, Turkey has been a major customer for WESCAM products, second only to the United States"
ploughshares.ca
I am going to keep repeating myself untill the day you actually say anything or provide any evidence as to the contrary.
So in other words you have nothing of substance, I got you.
People like you think by writing massive 30 pages essays makes you rights
Facts is what makes us right, not the number of words. You have been given ample facts already, you should avoid jumping over them as if that would help you.
No, people just dont want to deal with your complete horseshit more then they already have. Not this time though, you arent in your little safe zone down that Iranian sheithole of a section anymore. Your propaganda doesnt fly here or anywhere in the real world.
These attempts at insults only highlight your desperation.
I have already provided plentyfull of evidence and arguments that support my views whilst everything you say or do can be boiled down to this picture:
You have provided nothing but some CGI pictures and other pictures that do not reflect reality.
Aaw thats cute. You really want that to be true dont you? Got to burst your bubble again, You see we dont need to make second rate old gen FLIRS,
That's because you're busy importing sensors, if you had to actually make/design such a thing, you would not be faring anywhere near Iran (not that you are now).
No, you are not. If you were you would not be importing sensors from a country that has openly humiliated you with sanctions.
Canadian decision to halt tech exports exposes key weakness in Turkish drone industry
Turkey’s allegedly domestically built drones, which are mainly produced by President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s son-in-law, are in the spotlight again, following a Canadian decision to suspend export permits for drone technology to Turkey since it has been using its drones in the recent...
www.turkishminute.com
You are about a decade or so behind this information. Not that i expect much from you. All you needed to do was take a quick gander at the Turkish section. Turkey has worked around 15 years to develop and produce own 640x512 QWIP photodetectors which is the most critical sensor of E/O devices. We have already exported these devices to many countries already. Do you even have anything above the most basic first gen E/O devices?
There is absolutely nothing in that link that shows Turkey is producing sensors industrially. You post some random article as if people would not read it to check. That whole article is about Turkish
attempts to develop such sensors. That article is dated from 2018 and still in 2020 you were importing Canadian sensors. What does that tell you? You do not have the capability to produce them, even on a lab scale they were certainly importing the subcomponents.
Yeah American drones. Whatever copied rustbucket you cloned form it doesnt even remotely qualify, and even if it did there is nothing inherintly "Iranian" about it.
It is being built inside Iran by Iranian components, that is what matters.
You can clone to outside sure, anyone can
No they cannot. To "clone" i.e reverse engineer, you need a very robust underlying industry, something that likes of Turkey lack.
but can you clone to highly advanced electronics, sensors, subsystems, software, critical subsystems that require special production methodes, highly specialized precision cut components, rare materials and etc.
Those systems aid in the development of Iranian technology, like I previously mentioned, all nations reverse engineered at some point, including the Americans.
Stop taking credit for what the Americans have done.
Technology is technology, as long as we learn how to develop then the details do not really matter. You need to realise that there is a whole gulf of difference between actually producing your own systems (whether reverse engineering involved or not) than simply paying foreigners to import.
No YOU started that comparison incase you forgat dipshit lol. Why dont you take a quick look at your previous comments.
It is not about who started it, it's about you comparing completely different UAV systems.
Lmao its exists... but did it actually fly and/or is it actually in production? Because your comments seems to imply exactly just that.
Indeed it is, once again a quick research into the topic could reveal the information you need.
Meanwhile we already have a flying HALE-Class drone in the form of Akinci. This isnt a section where your goverments low effort propaganda will get you far my man.
Your HALE UAVs which is using a Ukrainian engine?
en.wikipedia.org
Like I said before, this is like bragging to be able to build a supercar but you're importing the engine from Italy. Without this engine, your HALE uav would not exist.
And thats precisely why most of your "reverse-engineered" and copied garbage never really reach the same quality and capabilties as the original weapons its was cloned from.
On the contrary, in the case of Iran, using the RQ-170 as an example, Iran turned a surveillance UAV into a combat one and actually used more advanced composite materials. Your claims those that systems are not as capable as the systems they gained influence from is once again, hot air.
Dont try to enforce your sanctioned ridden industry to the global norm lmao
So instead we should all act like Turkey? I.e importing an Italian A-129 helicopter:
Renaming it T-129:
And then claim it is a Turkish designed product. You see at least when Iran derives a product from a foreign systems, it does not claim to have designed it. The other hilarious fact is that even your T-129 is heavily reliant on import.
Iran itself is heavely reliant on all these old foreign outdated systems and subsystems
Iran is reliant on itself to produce them, unlike Turkey which requires its hand to be held at every stage.
You think its "reverse-engineering" thats makes you the greater military industry? Bwahaha thats quite the desperation in argumentation.
Sure it does, reverse engineering is a natural part of most nations developing. Even the Americans used Nazi technology to greatly boost their advancements. Check below:
What Was Operation Paperclip?
This controversial top-secret U.S. intelligence program brought Nazi German scientists to America to harness their brain power for Cold War initiatives.
www.history.com
This is the type of shit your tell yourself to make yourself feel better, and not because it actually holds merit.
On the contrary, the only reason you think reverse engineering is anything to sneer at is because Turkey is going the easy route by simply relying on the outside for its technology. If you had to actually develop your own technology from the ground up, you would have been following a path similar to Iran.
The most hilarious part of all is that you flip-flop between excuses when your industry provides the garbage that it does.
The experts disagree with you:
Let me know when your adversaries admire your technology the way they do to Iran. From what I can see your enemies such as Greeks are laughing.
You live in perpetual duality where Iran is the best defence industry in the world, b-b-butt also is not because of those damn sanction grrrrrrr.
This is what we call a straw-man argument, my point is Iran has a more self reliant industry than Turkey, a fact no one can deny not that Iran has the world's best industry.
Do you think by these cartoons merit any extra value? Frankly, this is something one would expect from a school child.
Already did. We dont need to copy old outdated systems and subsystems to keep our industry afloat.
Outdated systems like RQ-170 that are decades ahead of anything you currently produce? And no, you do not need to copy to keep your industry afloat but rather need to import.
How is that totaly locally made "fifth-gen" fighter jet going? Did you replace all those old garbage foreign parts already?
Provide me with a source where Iran claimed this was a 5th generation fighter.
Ah yes we lost so much that all those countries no country wanted our drones anymore daaaamnit. Oh wait they totally do.
Once they actually buy and start flying them en mass then we can talk.
We are in talks with nearly a dosen more country in exporting just our TB-2 to including country that traditionaly dont even like Turks such as Serbians, Bulgarians and etc. Lets not mention the Kareyel, Anka, Aksungur and Akinci. You simply cant deny the succeso of Turkish drones. Are we comparable to America or Israel? Certainly not but we are world leading compared to Iran.
The point is, your TB-2 is not really Turkish as most of it is actually foreign.
So even if your do export it, you're exporting something which is only really Turkish in name.
I dont think anyone needs to hear a lecture about propaganda from an Iranian lmao. Its not even just Turkish sources.
The primary sources are Turkish i.e propaganda.
Why don you first make anything that is worthwhile, maybe then people will start to give a shit about your second rate sanction ridden industry.
The Americans have conferences on Iranian military systems, I would say that is more than giving a proverbial :
Listen and learn.
Also:
In less than 15 years, Turkey has worked its way up to become one of the world’s top users and manufacturers of armed drones. The key to this rapid growth is a DIY approach. And more and more countries are realising they can do it themselves too.
thecorrespondent.com
Turkey’s unmanned aerial vehicle, the Bayraktar TB2, has been responsible for the destruction of hundreds of armored vehicles and even air defense systems in Syria, Libya, and elsewhere, the UK’s...
www.middleeastmonitor.com
Turkey is developing an increasing variety of lethal armed drones that range from large, high-flying, bomb-laden ones to very small, low-flying UAVs that can form deadly swarms.
www.forbes.com
These articles do not counter the fact dozens of your UAVs have been shot down:
Drone Losses Impact Turkey’s Fighting in Libya
Libya experienced a steep increase in fighting last month. The April fighting produced significant lessons learned, especially with respect to drones and counter drone technology. These included the employment of unmanned “kamikaze” loitering munitions by the GNA and HAF, the appearance of...
smallwarsjournal.com
This is the best one:
We can find plenty of articles on Iran's UAVs as well:
Iran is becoming a drone superpower
Not all of Iran’s claims regarding its drones are accurate, but Tehran’s bragging is no reason to scoff at its abilities.
thehill.com
Even fox news:
Drone superpower? Iran’s arsenal of unmanned aerial vehicles
The recent flare-up between the U.S. and Iran has thrust Tehran’s military capabilities into the spotlight. While tensions appear to be de-escalating in the region, experts have been weighing the potential threat posed by Iran’s drone firepower.
www.foxnews.com
That is besides the point.
THIS is how an actual MALE-class drone looks like in size. This delusion in how a proper drone is suppose to look and perform probably contrbutes to you making garbage drones. One probably could not blame the inferiority of Iranian counterparts if this is how low their standards are.
Then I guess you need to clear your vision:
In what way? There is a difference between making something stealthy and making some as stealthy as possible. Nothing is a better example then modern-day doctrines and design philosophy behind that of stealthy warships. This seems like common sense but one can expect a different dynamic when talking to braindead Iranian nationalists that suffers from a inferiority complex.
You claimed the system is "very stealthy":
The people that claim this:
Is "very stealthy" are frankly borderline militarily illiterate given the number of times it has been detected and shot down.
Okey but your opinions means absolutely nothing to me. I dont sit here to hear the incoherent ramblings of a Iranian suffering from inferiority complex.
Given how much you love using that term, I'd say this is a case of projecting.
Did you or did you not actually provide proof that Iran produced anything similar to that production rate or not? Thats what i asked for, and that is not something you delivered sooooo... check mate?
Iran delivered hundreds of UAVs, which included dozens of MALE UAVs to just one regiment recently:
As many as 188 Iranian-made unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have been delivered to the naval force of the country’s Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC).
ifpnews.com
That should give you an idea of how many UAVs Iran produces. As for this notions of "proof", what do you need? a personal tour of the manufacturing facilities? You're acting as if minus some unsubstantiated claims that you provided anything solid.
You tell me
Answer is: No.
Atleast try to hide your butthurt and inferiority complex. You are a disgrace to your community lol.
What is here for us to have inferiority complex over exactly? Your Ukrainian engines?
Its certainly is when its something as succesfull as TB-2
If being shot down dozens of times is considered such a success to you then I suppose that is your limitations. Most of the "successes" of this UAV is just Turkish propaganda.
This merely a simple tactical-class drone that was never ment to be a technological marvel. I
Believe me, nobody thought it is.
the TB-2 did as much damage as it did with its limited carrying capacity then imagine the destruction the far more capable Anka, Aksungur and Akinci will do.
Not much if they end up being shot down likes that TB-2. That's not the only threat they face. Don't forget sanctions due to the sheer number of foreign components they rely on.
Thats where the real story lies. Not in what the TB-2 did, but what other far more advanced and capable drones will do.
See above.
Bitch what lol? All they have ever been used in is contested areas.
Contested areas = heavily guarded airspace. Most of the time the UAV had little threaten due to low quality and/or quantity of air defences it was facing.
This comment doesnt even make any sense. Yeah if ANY aircrafts flies low it can be much more easely shot down because it will be in range of the air defence systems, whilst normally they would fly above it. Its takes a while to ascend to that altitude and meanwhile they are exposed. That is common sense.
What does that have to do with anything I said? I said there was little air defence to begin with, not how you could deal with them.
Armenia shot down a single, maybe two TB-2 drones whilst they lost BILLIONS of dollars worth of equipment. This is not a claim, this is a blatant fact.
According to Turkish propaganda perhaps.
Except many already purchased Turkish drones
I literally showed it above.
You showed nothing but a vague picture. I highly doubt anyone will buy these Turkish UAVs, not in decent numbers anyway because like I said in my previous comment, they would just go to nations that actually produce must of the subsystems and not risk purchasing from a nation on which sanctions can stop their products in its track.
In other words it doesnt even come close to Turkish drone production capacity. Gotcha. You could have just said that
Iran's drone
manufacturing capability is much superior to Turkey, this is not a surprise given Iran does not have the bottle neck of importing from abroad.
Perhaps you should stick to cartoon, they seems more at your level.
Aaw cute. Is it actually in production? I will be geniunly shocked if any of these drones are in production or are actively used in conflicts
Low effort propaganda stunts dont actually amount to any sort of achievement.
You can ask the Saudis on whether they're propaganda or not:
Listen to their colonel speak:
Make sure to watch the video if you're truly interested in grasping the capability of these drones.
The only drone that is using Ukrainian engines is Akinci and that is only temporarly till the PD-222 gets matured and EASA certified.
All of your UAVs are using foreign engines, all. Once your engines are being used then you can talk. Your engines are probably also based heavily on imports, assuming you can even make them.
A litteral amalgamation of Israeli (Shahed-129)
Come again?
Show me an Italian UAV in Iran.
As above, show which Chinese UAVs are in Iran.
You're right Iran is not relying on Canada or UK, just all the other countries which you stole and copied their ancient era garbage from. Where would you be if you didnt have any of those foreign designs and weapons? There is so much irony in this post.
De ja vu again with you, recall the earlier question:
Thats because it is. A desperate methode used by Pariah states to gather knowledge that they will never truelly understand because they lack the unique and specialised infrastructure to produce the highly sensitive electronics, systems, sub-systems and components.
All of those components are being developed inside Iran. It's not like Iran can just import what it needs like Turkey, so it has to build them. There is no other choice.
If a defence industry is all a matter of who can reverse-engineer to most then nobody would bother making their own and just copy existing designs and weapons
Those nation that design their own systems and subsystems did reverse engineer at some point. listen to what the expert says on reverse engineering:
He stated " Reverse engineering can be even more difficult than designing a new system". So why reverse engineer? Because you can:
1- Learn from the systems of the adversaries and fast forward your technology
2- When you reverse engineer, you know the produce you're developing is something that works, thus if you manage to de-engineer it properly you also will have something that works. Compare that to designing something from scratch, it may not even work as a design and you lose much time and effort. Iran wanted to catch up fast, hence the route it took.
Yet the only country who base their entire industry on this concept is solely Iran and N.Korea. Let that sink in.
Even N. Korea a country with a GDP of $25B is more self reliant than Turkey, this is quite embarrassing, no?
It isnt debunked. From what i can tell the simorgh actually isnt even in production or used in any capacity by Iran
Of course it has, if you refuse to use your vision then that is not my problem.
After all PR-drones dont actually make good weapons. Or have you not learned this lesson after this global joke
That is PR as much as your (British) "stealth fighter" you're working on. R&D projects take time, especially when you're not relying on foreign advanced nations in that sector:
Britain, Turkey sign defence deal to develop Turkish fighter jet
Britain and Turkey signed a defence deal worth more than 100 million pounds on Saturday to develop Turkish fighter jets, opening the way to deeper cooperation over the lifetime of the project. In Ankara to strengthen ties with Turkey as she navigates Britain's departure from the European Union...
uk.finance.yahoo.com
No i blatantly told you that they are copies from existing engines, primarely ROTAX. You are producing clones and copies from existing foreign engines. Kinda funny how you talk shit about Turkish engines lmao. Bitch everything you design and produce is foreign.
I already provided you with engines and asked you to show me which foreign systems they are based on, but lo and behold you avoided the question. Lets try it again, here is an Iranian microjet TJ-HP1:
Which engine is that a copy of then?
Answer that one and then I'll show you other engines.
It litteraly has been the engine of Anka for several years already dipshit lol.
There is no proof that UAV is flying with any Turkish engine. Do you have any independent sources?
Stick to CGI's then, that's as real as most of your products.
We dont like to waste effort and time on little PR projects. Come to me when that thing actually enters production. Hint: never.
Unlike Turkey, Iran is a manufacturer of jet engines, so I do not think anyone doubt it will enter mass production.
They are old ancient tech that doesnt even come remotely close to Turkey's lmao
This is Tukish technology:
This is even with all the Western technology.
Do you make it yourself? Yeah sure. Is it good however? **** no.
If they were not good, they could not have successfully attacked a nation with one of the most advanced integrated air defence network on the planet. A country riddled with American early warning radars. Your UAVs have never been anywhere close to such a kill zone. Ancient air defences do not count. Turkish UAVs struggle to stay in the air in places with barely any air defence:
Despite its "success", the Turkish Bayraktar TB2 is as vulnerable as a WWII aircraft
The famous Armenian military analyst H. Arzomanyan said in an interview that 80% of the losses of the Arshak army come exclusively from the actions of the Turkish UAVs.
bulgarianmilitary.com
Turkey doesnt need to import anything
Almost everything you have is imported, remember this?:
or copy existing FLIR technology to make flirs leaps and bounds better then anything your second rate industry can produce.
Who said you have the technology to copy such a thing?
You dont get to play the card about "but atleast we make it ourselves" and "we make it better then you" in the same sentence. Its one or the other. Its a perpetual duality you dipshits live in, and the reason why nobody takes you seriously.
Iran's enemies certainly do:
Listen to this general:
Lmao what? Propaganda HOW?
Turkish claims without any real proof = Turkish propaganda.
Yeah thats exactly what Turkey is doing dipshit. Actual development and creating a vest network of infrastructure able to support a domestic defence industry.
Importing is not the same development of "vest"[SIC] network is it?
We dont need base our entire fucking industry on reverse-enginering, copying and cloning existing foreign systems.
It's a better move than reliance on the outside. See below:
Turkey’s Defense Industry Has Come A Long Way, But Ankara Still Relies Heavily On Foreign Suppliers
"In reality, Turkey is still heavily reliant on foreign sources for a great deal of its military hardware and technology and will remain so for quite some time. "
Turkey is not going to be able to end such dependencies by 2023, as President Erdogan has vowed, or even by the end of this decade.
www.forbes.com
Wake up and smell the coffee.
If you entire industry revolves around the copying and cloning existing weapons then you are faaar more reliant on foreign weapons and equipment you actual dumbass.
I don't think you understand what reliance is. Consider the scenario:
1- Turkey
needs to import Ukranian engines otherwise its UAVs are useless
2- Iran can produces its own engines, but if it gets the chance it will get a better one and make it itself.
You see, Iran does not need the outside, but Turkey is. Iran can build its own needs, Turkey cannot.
Yeah you go back to your little Iranian section so you can feed other all the bullshit you speak with your compatriots. Go live in your little bubble and make sure to never leave that lol.
The only bubble I see here is your desperate attempt to propagate Turkish propaganda.
Vestel Karayel is from a private firm and isnt even produced for Turkey. They have been exported to S.Arabia(another export btw).
That was just one example, point is all of your UAV require foreign hardware.
TAI Anka has NEVER used MD-15 you absolute ape. That is the Aselfir-300D whilst the newer ones uses Aselfir CATS.
The sources disagree with you.
The TB-2 with CATS already exist dipshit. LOOK at the picture lol.
Clearly it does not exist in use otherwise you not need to try and continue importing canadian Flirs.
Canada approves sale of drone optics to Turkey despite arms embargo
While the restrictions on military exports to Turkey still stand, Ottawa said it will consider exemptions on a case-by-case basis
www.middleeasteye.net
No its that the one completely reverse-engineers and copies from foreign systems whilst the other develops.
Development means self reliant, not reliance on others for handing out technology. Does Turkey make anything that is not in one way or another reliant on foreign suppliers?
Your entire industry is more dependent on foreign systems then Turkey ever is or will be.
Let me know when Iran imports even 1% the amount Turkey does.
Turkey: Which countries export arms to Turkey?
Some European countries have suspended arms sales to Turkey, so where does it gets its weapons?
www.bbc.co.uk
Aaw thats cute. You think that SATCOM is going to hide the origin of that Shahed? You dont think we already figured that one out many many years ago?
Hermes 450
Shahed without SATCOM
Nice try though.
You post two UAVs with slight similarities AND claim one is based on the other. Since when did Iran have hermes 450? Morever, this is Hermes 450:
Here is Shahed-129:
Right, because they are similar size aren't they? Nevermind the other blatant dissimilarities. How embarrassing.
Moreover, do not forget there was claims that your own TB2 was indeed based on Israeli systems:
Turkish Bayraktar Drone is 'Copied' from Israeli UAVs
Israel has shared technology of its Aerostar and Heron UAVs with Turkey to manufacture Bayraktar drones, successful in the Syrian and Libyan battlegrounds, a Russian news outlet has alleged. Besides sharing similar appearance, the drones have a single turboprop engine. Payload and autonomous...
www.defenseworld.net
So you have an Iraqi building and one of the many limp dicked drones that you shat out throughout the years and thats relevant to me.... how?
You asked for a country copying our UAVs and I gave you one. Now name me one country that tries copying your UAVs.
No i just got tired reading the idiotic ramblings and mental gymnastics from an Iranian suffering a inferiority complex.
Unlikely, you simply had no true reply to it. Refrain from excuses. That comment stands stands for your reply:
"To summarise, the only area of UAV technology Turkey is ahead of Iran is when it comes to imports, nothing else. Frankly I think is a satirical to do a comparison analysis between Iran and Turkey because Iran is on a higher level of technological self-sufficiency. Bunch of piston powered UAVs whose engines, sensors and others are importing do not turn you magically into a UAV power. Even the likes of S.Arabia and UAE could do the same, I guess we should also consider them UAV power? Turkey is not as behind technologically as the likes of Saudi Arabia, but please be sensible and refrain trying to compare yourself to Iran. You are not in the same league but at-least one league below Iran. You seem to be under the impression that we should pretend to be ignorant of the fact Turkey is not a self-reliant nation technologically speaking. That is not how it works, until the day comes when you're not relying heavily on imports, then we cannot compare you to Iran because we are essentially comparing apples and oranges. Details matter. I understand your need to try and hide the reality or sugar coat it, but this is in vain."
You see, that comment is important because it gets to the heart of the matter and the true difference between Iran and Turkey. One nations standing on its own feet by any means necessary and the other, well see for yourself:
Turkey’s Unpromising Defense Industry
"Much of Turkey’s defense industry is dependent on Western military technology—including beyond engines—a fact Ankara is hesitant to acknowledge. As such, Turkey’s biggest naval vessel—the 27,000-ton, amphibious assault ship TCG Anadolu—is based on the Spanish Juan Carlo I. A large chunk of Turkey’s modern navy vessels, including the Barbaross class frigates, Yavuz class frigates, and Kılıç class fast attack craft, were designed in Germany. Turkey’s attempt to build an indigenously produced fighter jet relies on a British company that has
scaled back cooperation efforts, and the Altay battle tank is technologically assisted by a South Korean company.
Thus, Turkey’s research and development is simply not sophisticated enough for its main prestige projects.
Given that intellectual property rights are a major point of contention in the arms industry, for the foreseeable future, Turkey will most likely remain dependent on expensive foreign technological assistance."
It may seem as though Turkey’s burgeoning defense industry is zooming ahead; however, the industry faces an array of issues that could slow its long-term development.
carnegieendowment.org
The article above sums things up quite nicely. The reality is very different to the propaganda you're trying (and failing) to spew.
