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sad but true, but do you really have to humiliate us with that statement.
Nothing to be ashamed my friend, its because the Phil Govt doesnt think it was a necessity. Its not like you cannot afford it but somehow it wasnt planned so its not on the budget. But the recent China threat have its bright side since it boosting the awareness and commitment for the Phil Govt to add more strength in your Navy.
 
Indonesian Navy

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preparation for TNI Anniversary
 
Playing bully is just making you a laughing stock here my friend :)
Being a laughing stock makes you a laughing stock. I'm not saying I admire them or would like to follow them or anything of that nature, but would you call German Empire or Nazi Germany, a laughing stock?

No you wouldn't. You would even say that means we haven't proven our power, which we still lack much anyways.

Open your eyes, China not yet achieve the status of regional hegemony, China is cornered by all US allies and some of them (Japan, South Korea) are at the same level or even better than China in technology.
Here in SCS, Indonesia is fighting to balance the power between US and China. Meaning that we dont want US to become military hegemony here.
So China should look at us as partner since Indonesia is the wager between US and China here in ASEAN or to be precise : the SCS.
Creating SCS free from any domination from Superpower nation is our main policy. So its time for China to pay respect to ASEAN nation especially in sea sovereignty.

Free of super power? Only another superpower can achieve that, ironically. You can no more keep the US at bay than any of the others. You may not offer bases, but it's not that much of a difference maker to the US, or us for that matter, though for completely different reasons.

China isn't a regional Hegemon, I agree, but only agree, because the US is here, and there can be no middle ground in Asia, or anywhere really, since the US is everywhere.

As to sea sovereignty, just because it hurts your interests doesn't make our claim invalid. Much like just because America spying within EEZ hurts us, doesn't make it invalid. We do respect sovereignty, what we don't is taking territory from us. You say it is yours and us backing down is respect, is that how you define partnership, as long as it benefits you it's good.


I tell you my friend, its very easy for Indonesia to switch totally to US side and we can get showered by military aid and equipment even more than what US did to Pakistan since we rule the choke point between the Pacific and Indian ocean. The Australia look at us as the buffer from any threat from the north.

So again, yes we are the big dog in this area my friend. Please dont disappoint us or China will find herself trapped in the US military influence from the pacific to the SCS.

Switch to America, by all means, get all you can.

You control nothing, you may be there, but any nation can freely pass those points, and if you refuse or anything of that nature, let's just say, with your navy it's not really an option.


You might think I'm anti Indo or something like that, but in reality, I'm just against allies who are on the fence, they are useless in war, and just as much a threat as they are a help.

But most of all, I don't like the notion that others can dictate our policy. No, we will continue advancing both militarily and economically until we can achieve similar status as the US. See, the US don't care that Brazil is in BRICS, because the threat to them is less than 0, Brazil can no more stop America as I can stop a speeding car.

America is not one Indonesia away from retaining the crown and we are not one Indonesia away from taking it.


You are under the impression the difference maker in SCS is ASEAN, I can assure you it is not. Just like the War of the Coalitions is between Napoleon and Britain, Russia and Austria, not the German states, though it is fought there.

The only difference maker in SCS is ours and America's strength, everything else matters very little.

re this ship at first row Type 56 corvette ?
type 56 is a lot bigger than that.

luckily, we are not having AEGIS destroyers as enemy. Anyway, yes, any old ships are old, that's why Indonesian navy have launched several projects to replace the old frigates gradually.

By the way, are we really talking about this like Indonesia and China are already in a situation where we confront each other's ship on the seas? Indonesia and china are still pretty far away from that noise, no need for hostile word or threat, otherwise China will add more unnecessary enemies to the list. Indonesia will guard its water territory, I can assure you that, even if Indonesia should invite the U.S to the party, but Indonesia is not stupid enough to disrupt trades and economic potential with China and other countries so Indonesia will likely to remain neutral as long as China doesn't provoke and unnecessarily drag Indonesia to the conflict. It is THAT simple.
not saying we are hostile, since you brought up anti ship missile, I just discussed targeting system that needs to be in place for it to work. It's purely about weapons and nothing else.

It would only work against a navy of similar caliber.
 
BTW, look at our navy, just the SCS fleet is enough to destroy all of ASEAN's navy without suffering much. You still have that mentality that China doesn't have enough numbers or quality to do so, I can assure you, we do.

Such a haughty and arrogant tone will not win friends with neighbors, my dear Chugokojin associate.

luckily, we are not having AEGIS destroyers as enemy. Anyway, yes, any old ships are old, that's why Indonesian navy have launched several projects to replace the old frigates gradually.

By the way, are we really talking about this like Indonesia and China are already in a situation where we confront each other's ship on the seas? Indonesia and china are still pretty far away from that noise, no need for hostile word or threat, otherwise China will add more unnecessary enemies to the list. Indonesia will guard its water territory, I can assure you that, even if Indonesia should invite the U.S to the party, but Indonesia is not stupid enough to disrupt trades and economic potential with China and other countries so Indonesia will likely to remain neutral as long as China doesn't provoke and unnecessarily drag Indonesia to the conflict. It is THAT simple.

ASEAN is one of China's largest trading partners, so any instigation with Indonesia is an example of a zero-sum strategic mentality on their part, which won't happen. By alienating Indonesia, China will force her to to the American-Japanese-Australian-NATO camp. And quite frankly, she (China) cannot afford to do that.

It would be an absolute foolish and truly stupid thing to do. Very, very stupid.
 
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AFAIK
Indonesia will play its neutrality to the max on SCS issue and always try to find balance between US and China

And I do hope China can see this gesture as opportunity and can find a niche that can fostered Indo-China relationship rather than deteriorating it

And the leaders of both nations actually and constantly showing it publicly

SUre that China has their own military might, but I'm sure too that the leader of China would rather resolves some issues regarding SCS with Indonesia diplomatically

So I suggest we too take a step back and see the matter in cold headed, one thing that I find quite unique about Indonesia and Indonesian, is that we don't like being pushed around to choose sides, although sometimes this kind of gesture isn't always worked........and this actually quite true since early times of Indonesia history

Being a laughing stock makes you a laughing stock. I'm not saying I admire them or would like to follow them or anything of that nature, but would you call German Empire or Nazi Germany, a laughing stock?

No you wouldn't. You would even say that means we haven't proven our power, which we still lack much anyways.



Free of super power? Only another superpower can achieve that, ironically. You can no more keep the US at bay than any of the others. You may not offer bases, but it's not that much of a difference maker to the US, or us for that matter, though for completely different reasons.

China isn't a regional Hegemon, I agree, but only agree, because the US is here, and there can be no middle ground in Asia, or anywhere really, since the US is everywhere.

As to sea sovereignty, just because it hurts your interests doesn't make our claim invalid. Much like just because America spying within EEZ hurts us, doesn't make it invalid. We do respect sovereignty, what we don't is taking territory from us. You say it is yours and us backing down is respect, is that how you define partnership, as long as it benefits you it's good.




Switch to America, by all means, get all you can.

You control nothing, you may be there, but any nation can freely pass those points, and if you refuse or anything of that nature, let's just say, with your navy it's not really an option.


You might think I'm anti Indo or something like that, but in reality, I'm just against allies who are on the fence, they are useless in war, and just as much a threat as they are a help.

But most of all, I don't like the notion that others can dictate our policy. No, we will continue advancing both militarily and economically until we can achieve similar status as the US. See, the US don't care that Brazil is in BRICS, because the threat to them is less than 0, Brazil can no more stop America as I can stop a speeding car.

America is not one Indonesia away from retaining the crown and we are not one Indonesia away from taking it.


You are under the impression the difference maker in SCS is ASEAN, I can assure you it is not. Just like the War of the Coalitions is between Napoleon and Britain, Russia and Austria, not the German states, though it is fought there.

The only difference maker in SCS is ours and America's strength, everything else matters very little.


type 56 is a lot bigger than that.


not saying we are hostile, since you brought up anti ship missile, I just discussed targeting system that needs to be in place for it to work. It's purely about weapons and nothing else.

It would only work against a navy of similar caliber.
 
Such a haughty and arrogant tone will not win friends with neighbors, my dear Chugokojin associate.

true, if we live in an ideal world. Except we don't, the reason America continue has a place in middle east, despite, shall we call misadventures, is because it's awesome power. Take that away and they would be outcast. Not many would argue that, US has done far worse in middle east than we have in SCS, especially considering we haven't done much.

Yet here we are.

We are both firing jabs at each other, but still inseparable aren't we, my Japanese enemy. lol

No, we are just fine, as long as we are, just fine.

AFAIK
Indonesia will play its neutrality to the max on SCS issue and always try to find balance between US and China

And I do hope China can see this gesture as opportunity and can find a niche that can fostered Indo-China relationship rather than deteriorating it

And the leaders of both nations actually and constantly showing it publicly

SUre that China has their own military might, but I'm sure too that the leader of China would rather resolves some issues regarding SCS with Indonesia diplomatically

So I suggest we too take a step back and see the matter in cold headed, one thing that I find quite unique about Indonesia and Indonesian, is that we don't like being pushed around to choose sides, although sometimes this kind of gesture isn't always worked........and this actually quite true since early times of Indonesia history
Neutral, sounds good, until you remember no great power has ever been neutral. But if you like to be the first you are welcome to try.

As to resolving things without war, sure, if the situation calls for it, I say yes. I don't think Indonesia would go to war anyways. Or us for that matter.

But never assume we fear Indonesia joining the US, see the thing US "cares" about, freedom of navigation(though it is our top priority as well), makes sure no matter what happens, who joins what, as long as we don't fire the first shot, we can continue to expand.

The pretenses, US uses is the same thing that shackles them from taking concrete action. When the day comes, the US can no longer freely do that, I mean more so than now, Indonesia will choose the right side, and even if you don't, it hardly matters.
 
true, if we live in an ideal world. Except we don't, the reason America continue has a place in middle east, despite, shall we call misadventures, is because it's awesome power. Take that away and they would be outcast. Not many would argue that, US has done far worse in middle east than we have in SCS, especially considering we haven't done much.

Forget about the Americans. They do what they do in the Middle East, Europe, Africa because that's what they believe is important to their strategic interests. But for us Japanese and you Chinese, we have our own expansionist designs in Southeast Asia; be it production facilities, banking integration, to natural resource trade. The point is, hegemonistic actions and rhetoric is not going to win the confidence of ASEAN member states.


We are both firing jabs at each other, but still inseparable aren't we, my Japanese enemy. lol

Precisely, since we're so close , geographically, it doesnt help to keep negative views on each other.


No, we are just fine, as long as we are, just fine.

I hope so.
 

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