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'India could revert to pre-1947 state'

Many thanks for a very informative article. I regularly read Hindustan Times and Times of India on the internet, my perceptions about the aims of the BJP and its allies are no different.

IMO hidden agenda of the BJP and it allied Hinduvta parties such as VHP, Shiv Sena and Sangh Parivar etc is to intimidate the minorities into to adopting Hindu culture thus making them indistinguishable from a Hindu person. A few generation of this would eventually convert all minorities into Hindus in all but name.

It can start with very unobtrusive symbols. For example, In Dubai I came across many non Hindu Indian women who were wearing "Mangal Sooter". This is a tradition adopted by Muslims as well as Christians in India. Since one of my sister's in law is from India (from Hyderabad) I asked her when I visited my brother in the US, she replied that no married muslim women wore mangal sooter until 1970's. This custom came into vogue from late 9170's with the rise of communal tension. Any women walking on the street wearing sari, bindia and mangal sooter is difficult to differentiate from a Hindu women and thus relatively safe from attack from the Hindu bigots.

On the surface, wearing of mangal sooter means nothing, but this is a start, slowly and surely along with changes of historical events in the school text books, muslims will tend to forget their heroes such as Khalid and Ali and will adopt Arjun and Karan instead.

This post may appear to be coming from a muslim bigot; which I am not; but nevertheless I am a muslim thru countless generations and when I perceive a deliberate attempt by Hinduvta bigots to intimidate muslims into changing their views about muslim culture, it doesn't go down well with me.
 
Sir,

I see a lot of inaccuracy as well as generalizations in your posts.
 
Sir,

I see a lot of inaccuracy as well as generalizations in your posts.

I speak from the criterian of self reference, this implies generalization; I am generalizing based on one or two experiences. However, I clearly state that these are 'my' perceptions and I am applying conclusions to BJP and Hiduvta parties in general.

A perception can be wrong or only partly right and I admit the possibility that I may be totally mistaken. The article noted above was in line with my thinking, it doesnot mean that it is the absolute truth. India is a huge and a great country. If you read most of my posts, you will find a consistency in my dislike of BJP and my respect for leaders such as Nehru and Gangdhi Ji. You will also notice my disdain of Taliban and Mullahs as well.
 
Well...Sikhs and Hindu's are almost alike in traditions nowadays. So i guess this one thing could be true. The 'bal kata' sardars and punjabi's are also helping in this tradition.
 
I have seen a lot of christians wearing mangalsootra and bindi. Its got nothing to do with RSS/VHP propaganda. On the contrary i feel its church's delibrate decision so as to make the society feel chrisitans are one among them only unlike a pariah community like Muslims.

Chrisitans have also started using the 'chendamelam'( drums), mutthukuda (Umbrella) and elephant for church ceremonies. All the three are traditionaly been used for hindu festivals.
 
From my own experience and a bit of history reading, cultural and civilizational traits have always over shadowed their contemporary religious principals all over the world. Be it India, Iran, China, Europe, or anyplace else.

In every region of the world, the population derives its identity from its ancient cultural affinities, rather than its present religious beliefs. Take Turkey and Iran for example, both proud Muslim nations. But a turk and an Iranian will be quick to point out their Turkish and Persian ancestry, before identifying themselves as Muslim. A Greek will have different customs and practices, compared to an American, despite both being Christian. The religious, or might i say, atheist beliefs of the Chinese do not hamper their everyday practice of ancient Chinese cultural practices. Same with India, where whichever religion you are from, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, your everyday life, including you clothing, taste in food, taste in music, etc, will have a unique Indian flavor. The India here is not the political entity we call present day India, but the civilization that prospered on the Indian sub-continent.

Part of the reason is, culture evolves based upon the land and living conditions of a particular geographical area. While religion is an ideology, that is more often than not imposed upon from distant lands. So when the initial fervor of religion dies out, the ground reality of practical culture sinks into the populace.
 
I have seen a lot of christians wearing mangalsootra and bindi. Its got nothing to do with RSS/VHP propaganda. On the contrary i feel its church's delibrate decision so as to make the society feel chrisitans are one among them only unlike a pariah community like Muslims.

Chrisitans have also started using the 'chendamelam'( drums), mutthukuda (Umbrella) and elephant for church ceremonies. All the three are traditionaly been used for hindu festivals.


Thank you Hon. Bull. You are reinforcing my point of view.

IMO the reason why Church wants to appear to be a part of mainstream society is to avoid attacks by Hiduvta activist groups such as Bajrang Dal. If thru intimidation and coercion, most people of India can be converted into Hindu culture, actual conversion into Hinduism proper will be far less painful; that being the ultimate objective of Hiduvta.
 
Thank you Hon. Bull. You are reinforcing my point of view.

IMO the reason why Church wants to appear to be a part of mainstream society is to avoid attacks by Hiduvta activist groups such as Bajrang Dal. If thru intimidation and coercion, most people of India can be converted into Hindu culture, actual conversion into Hinduism proper will be far less painful; that being the ultimate objective of Hiduvta.

My state doesnt have these hindutva forces, they have failed to win anything meaningfull in any of the elctions since independece. the best they came was when they came second in trivandrum constituency. Thats it. Whom are Church fearing over here. Nobody. On the contrary Church is prominant figure in all walks of life including politics, election,agriculture.
 
As a side note, I have had the opportunity to meet some Pakistanis in my life. Before meeting them, i used to think Pakistanis, being such strict followers of Islam and all, would be more like Arabs than us Indians. But to my utter surprise, they were quite like us. Their clothing, their music, their food, their language, their demeanor and their general mindset was almost as Indian as, umm, an Indian's, apart from a subtle hatred for India and a ridiculous fixation on Kashmir. It made me start thinking as to why doesn't the average Pakistani resemble Arabs more than Indians.

As such, i have realized why, even after 60 years of independence as a nation, Pakistan still faces existential threats, not from the outside, but inside. Its religious center of gravity lies westward in Arabia, while it's cultural center lies eastward in mainland India. The two opposing tendencies are ripping it apart at the seams, ideologically speaking. Most of Pakistan is a buffer region, that has been standing between the center of two civilizations, Persia and the Indian Sub-continent, for thousands of years.
 
Thank you Hon. Bull. You are reinforcing my point of view.

IMO the reason why Church wants to appear to be a part of mainstream society is to avoid attacks by Hiduvta activist groups such as Bajrang Dal. If thru intimidation and coercion, most people of India can be converted into Hindu culture, actual conversion into Hinduism proper will be far less painful; that being the ultimate objective of Hiduvta.

Sir,

BJP gets their butt kicked every time they enter Kerala, Same reason pakistani's saw bengali speaking muslims as not true muslims of south asia. Just cuz it doesnt fit their view of a muslim. Bengali's have very strong and rich cultural identity. One should not judge other's by the parameter's set by yourself.

Bull,

I suggest you write clearly. The chruch is more strong in Kerala than temples. Umberalla and Drums has nothing to do with assilmilation of relgions, but just that it identifies kerala and frankly it is the "IN" thing right now.
 
Thank you Hon. Bull. You are reinforcing my point of view.

IMO the reason why Church wants to appear to be a part of mainstream society is to avoid attacks by Hiduvta activist groups such as Bajrang Dal. If thru intimidation and coercion, most people of India can be converted into Hindu culture, actual conversion into Hinduism proper will be far less painful; that being the ultimate objective of Hiduvta.

Sir,
That is not the case. It depends on which place where Christians would have been.Most these christians are converted decades back,but have kept some of the customs which they used to follow.The place where I am from Christians women do wear the "mangalsutra",which is generally found in a Hindu lady. Protestants have Hindu sounding names like for Kavan(meaning Poetry).
A Muslim collegue of mine knows more about a very important Hindu temple than I do.He knows when the when there will be festival there,when to go there etc.

How could elements like VHP force such a large amount of people
carry out such customs? The people who are part of VHP are no more than thugs. who in name of "Hindu's protector" only pocket money and trouble people. They trouble Hindus as much they trouble people of other faiths. They claims they are the protector but then know hoot about Hinduism. The claim of Hindutva is nothing but a election ploy to gather votes. The BJP came and went.
I hardly saw anything done about the so called Hindutva.
Imagine the so called Hindu nationalist government did not even bother to construct a temple at Ayodha, which was consider a big example of Hindu prosecution in the Muslim world.

They are just a political party.

There is no concept of conversion is Hindus with the simple fact that what god/godness would the newly converted people believe in? There are far too many option in Hinduism. Hence it does not make any sense to convert to Hinduism other than adding to the numbers.

It is a common knowledge that are hundreds of group types within Hinduism. Hence for a normal Hindu,what is so special about a Muslims or Christian that he cannot tolerate them?
If a Hindu from Delhi can tolerate a Hindu from Kerala who eating habit is different,who wears different type of clothes,who speaks different language,who even prays to different god, why not a Muslims or Christian?

May be there is a reason why India is home to so many type of religion.
 
Victims Of Meerut's Hashimpura Killings: Brutalised, But Not Broken
By Harsh Mander

HindustanTimes.com 19 December, 2006

The police bullet pierced through his shoulder, stunning him with pain. If it had entered his body just a few inches lower, he would have died, like the forty other young men that the constables had bundled into the truck with him. They took him for dead, throwing him into the canal. Zulfikar was then 17 years old.

A few hours earlier, constables of the Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) had surrounded Hashimpura, a working class and predominantly Muslim colony of factory workers and weavers in Meerut. It was the evening of May 22, 1987, and the city was still smouldering with the fires of more than a month of embittered and brutal rioting, that had left many slain by police bullets and burning alive, hundreds of homes, factories, shops and vehicles gutted, and people of both communities convulsed with sullen hate and anger.

The PAC forced all the residents of Hashimpura out of their homes onto the road, and searched their homes, randomly smashing their furniture and valuables. It was the sacred month of Ramzan, and most were still observing the ritual fasting as they tensely cowered for hours outside their homes. Almost all the able-bodied men, totalling 324 according to official records, all Muslim, were arrested and crowded into police trucks. They were first driven to police lock-ups, where they were beaten with police batons. They were then shifted to jails, where they were attacked by prisoners, leaving five dead.

In Hashimpura, after the strong able-bodied men were arrested and driven away, nearly 50 among the teenaged and old men who remained behind were then rounded up by the PAC constables into a yellow truck. Many of their loved ones wailed as they were driven away. Yet, none dreamed that this would be the last time that they would see most of them alive.

Zulfikar and others thought that they too would be driven to the police station. They panicked when the truck instead began to drive them out of the city; they shouted hopelessly but there were none to heed their cries in the shrouds of curfew. The truck rumbled to a halt more than an hour later near the banks of the Upper Ganga Canal in Muradnagar, Ghaziabad. By then, the sun had set. The terrified men packed in the truck still did not know what the men in khaki planned for them.

The man nearest the edge was first pulled down, and the sound of rifle-fire echoed through the uneasy silence; he fell, and his body was dragged to the canal and thrown in. A second man was then pulled down, and met the same fate. Zulfikar was the third. The bullet passed through his shoulder; he too collapsed, but was alive. He held his breath, and the constables took him for dead, and flung him also into the canal. He floated briefly, but soon found himself tangled in some weeds, which he grabbed and silently waited with intense foreboding, blood flowing from his bullet wound into the water.

By then, the men in the truck comprehended the terrible truth of what was happening, and they raised a great uproar. The constables panicked, and changed track. They mounted the truck and opened fire blindly, killing at least half the men there. They dragged out the bodies and threw them into the canal. The remaining men fell silent in cold terror, recalling their God and those they loved, certain now that they would not escape alive.

Zulfikar listened as the truck finally drove away. He came to know later that they then drove to the Hindon Canal, and completed the massacre of the remaining men. Of the nearly 50 men who the PAC picked up, only six survived. A policeman later testified to seeing the blood-stained PAC truck enter the premises of the camp of the PAC.

Zulkifar finally pulled himself out of the canal an hour later, and hid in a urinal. He had to continue his fast amid the stench of urine and his throbbing shoulder the next 24 hours, until he felt it was safe to slink to the home of a relative the next night. Days later, he took a bus to the home of Syed Shahabuddin, MP, in Delhi, and together they broke the story of the massacre in a press conference to a (briefly) outraged world.

Meanwhile, many bodies were found floating in the canal. The Superintendent of Police, Ghaziabad, VN Rai, insisted on filing police complaints, even though the top political and police leadership reportedly wanted to suppress the story for fear of a rebellion in the forces. In 1988, the state government directed the Crime Branch Central Investigation Department (CBCID) to investigate, but its report, submitted six years later in 1994, was never made public, and no charges were initially framed.

However, the survivors and members of the families of those killed moved the Supreme Court in 1995 to make the report public and to prosecute those indicted in it. The court refused to intervene, and instead asked the petitioners to approach the High Court. The case remains unresolved in the High Court, but the state government finally bowed to pressure in 1996 by
filing criminal chargesheets against 19 PAC personnel. Not a single senior official is included in the chargesheet. Even the 19 of the accused from the lower ranks of the PAC were not arrested, despite 23 non-bailable arrest warrants. They were in active service, but the government pleaded that they were 'absconding' throughout!

Ultimately, rights activist Iqbal Ansari and relatives of those slaughtered applied to the Supreme Court to transfer the case, in the interests of justice, from Uttar Pradesh to Delhi, which it ordered in September 2002. More years were allowed to pass over the wrangle of which government should appoint the special public prosecutor. The case continued to be adjourned on technical grounds, enabled by a reluctant public prosecutor appointed by the Uttar Pradesh government. Human rights lawyers Vrinda Grover and Rebecca John took up the reins as their advocates.

It was finally in May 2006, 19 years almost to the day after the massacre, that charges were finally framed against the accused. Three of the accused have died, the remaining 16 appear in every hearing in the cramped untidy Tis Hazari courtroom and listen tensely to the statements of the survivors - but continue in active service. A large number of residents of Hashimpura crowd the courtroom. All working class people, many widowed and aged, unsupported by any organisation, gather money from their own savings for travel for every court hearing, only to give wordless strength to each other as they speak out their harrowing truths in court.

Zulfikar, now 36, knows that the battle in the courts will be arduous. Yet, he still longs above all for justice. "Those who did this zulm must be punished. We do not want our children to see such a day again. It is for this that we fight." Some fear that they may still lose the case, but their lawyer Vrinda Grover counters, "The survivors and their families have already won. By their brave resolute epic fight. By bringing 16 PAC men to court every hearing. If the case is dismissed, it is the country that will lose. But not them. They have already won."

Harsh Mander is the convenor of Aman Biradari, a people's campaign for secularism, peace and justice.
 
Sixty years of independence, 38 per cent of the country up in fames

While India gears up to celebrate 60 years of its independence, almost 40 per cent of the country is reeling under violence. It is therefore time to introspect and take course-correction measures before the situation spirals out of hand.

AS INDIA DECKS up to celebrate the 61st anniversary of its independence from the shackles of British rule, it is a time for us to reflect and ponder over what we have achieved in the last 60 years. These days India is the cynosure of eyes around the world, having been termed as an emerging economic superpower. Besides, it is the world's largest democracy. But behind the shining exteriors, there are some bitter realities. The internal security scenario is one such bitter reality, which escapes the notice of many who are singing paeans to India's success story. A study has estimated that almost 231 of the country's 604 districts are afflicted by militancy, ethnic strife and terrorist violence. Some of the major areas of concern in the internal security front include:

JAMMU AND KASHMIR

Jammu and Kashmir has been the bone of contention between India and Pakistan right from 1947. The militants are still active and the militancy shows no sign of abating. Since the beginning of militancy in Jammu and Kashmir in 1989, almost 40000 lives have been snuffed out. In 2006 alone, around 1,100 lives were lost in this seemingly unending spiral of violence. The peace process between the two countries has run into rough weather with Pakistan harping on its one-point agenda on Kashmir. The effects of the militancy in Jammu and Kashmir have been felt in other parts of the country too with militants based in J &K targeting civilian populations in cities across the country.

THE NORTHEAST

Life in Northeast India has been torn asunder by a series of conflicts that have engulfed almost the entire region. The civilian population in the region has been caught between the proverbial devil and the deep blue sea, being at the receiving end of both the militants' and the security forces' ire. States like Nagaland, Manipur, Assam, Tripura, Meghalaya are reeling under violence. The porous borders between this region and countries like Bangladesh, Bhutan, China and Myanmar have further compounded the problem. Illegal immigration from Bangladesh has upset the demographic balance in many parts of the region especially Tripura and Assam. There is a great deal of unemployment forcing educated young men and women to take to guns. Around 620 people lost their lives in various incidents of militancy-related violence in the Northeast in 2006.

NAXALITES

The Naxalites are also proving to be a thorn in the flesh for the government. Almost fourteen states across the country have been affected by Naxal violence. Around 740 people lost their lives in Naxal-related violence last year. According to intelligence reports, Naxals have been working towards establishing a Red Corridor extending from Bihar to Jharkhand, Orissa, Chhattisgarh, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Karnataka. Some of the recent incidents of Naxal violence stand out for their audacity and brazenness. These include the attack on the Jehanabad jail, where Naxals freed around 340 prisoners including Naxal leader Ajay Kanu, the slaying of the MP Sunil Mahato besides the attack on a police camp in Bastar where they mowed down 56 policemen.

COMMUNAL AND CASTE-RELATED VIOLENCE

Communal and caste riots have reared their ugly heads time and again. The recent agitation by the Gujjars in Rajasthan and other states has seen the caste-cauldron simmering again. The Meenas and Gujjars are at loggerheads in Rajasthan in their claims for ST status. So is the case in many other parts of the country where people belonging to different castes and tribes are on the warpath against each other.

TERRORIST VIOLENCE

At least 270 people died in terrorist violence in India in 2006. There were a series of attacks on public and religious places. On March 7, 2006, around 21 people were killed and 62 others were injured in serial bomb blasts in Varanasi. Mumbai was the scene of horrific bomb blasts on July 11, 2006 when around 200 people were killed and over 700 others injured in serial blasts in Mumbai's railway network, which is considered to be the lifeline of the city. Terrorists have not spared people of any religion. The dastardly bomb attacks of September 8, 2006 at Malegaon in Maharashtra snuffed out forty lives while injuring 65 others. On May 18, 2007, 13 people lost their lives in a bomb blast in Hyderabad's famous Mecca Masjid and subsequent police firing.

THE ROAD AHEAD

So where are we heading? Is India moving away from "Bharat"? These facts point to some harsh realities, which the government much accept. The political leadership has to wake up to the fact that there are many genuine grievances within its populace, which have been shoved under the carpet. It has in many cases been taking the people for a ride. This is why people need to be educated, not just made literate. Only with the spread of education, will power devolve into the grassroots and it is from the grassroots that a new leadership will emerge which will take the country forward. The criminalisation of politics is a big deterrent to India's march towards progress. Only with education will people be able to reverse this trend. What is needed is a new approach wherein the ordinary populace is taken into confidence. India's economy is booming, however this "boom" has completely bypassed a large swathe of this population. Therefore the growth has to be more inclusive. As far as terrorist-violence sponsored by neighbouring countries like Pakistan is concerned, intelligence gathering needs to be spruced up and there should be more vigil at sensitive locations. As they say, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war.


http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=125533
 
Well Well and very nice MR Zaman But one thing Kashmiris are "NOT THE TERRORIST" they are fighting for there freedome its a disputed territory which was also regognized by the UN and every one in the WORLD.
 
I think Mr. Zaman will agree you but since it was written by an Indian it will be slanted in that direction.
 

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