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ICJ hearing on Kulbhushan Jadhav case : News, Updates & Discussions

My Indian friend, I am least interested in knowing what Banyias do (or don't do)

And you may "believe" in whatever you want, but told you already that things are not going to unfold as per your wishes and imaginations. just wait and see

As for the world not giving two hoots about what happens in Pakistani military courts, agreed ... But the world doesn't give two hoots about KY and Indian rants either, You guys may continue to believe that India is the center of the universe ... India's self delusion doesn't harm us in any way.


And as for India itself taking this matter to the UN, let me remind you that India itself took the Kashmir Dispute to the UN also hoping that Pakistan will be declared an aggressor state. Pakistan wasn't declared an aggressor, but Kashmir did become an internationally recognized territory. 70 years on, and despite repeated and desperate efforts, India has not been able to backtrack, the UN won't let it do so. The unintended consequences I was talking about.


No, I didn't say or believe that the case would be thrown out. But it's really funny to see the Indians jumping up and down with excitement as if Yadav were declared innocent by the ICJ (and India had won its case) .... It isn't about us being optimistic, it's about you guys being delusional. You needed a reality check very badly, and you were given one.
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You have just seen a glimpse of what India can do. Now as you are told by the ICJ, give counselor and legal access to Kulbhushan Jadhav and the rest will be done by the Indian lawyers. You know how capable they are.
 
You have just seen a glimpse of what India can do. Now as you are told by the ICJ, give counselor and legal access to Kulbhushan Jadhav and the rest will be done by the Indian lawyers. You know how capable they are.


@Miripiri ^^ India's self delusion I was talking about
 
I have been saying this from day one.

Iran should respond on this and should be made a party.
We haven't handled that case the it was meant to be,missing of single block of evidence would have disastrous consequences.Iran should have been asked again and again,Mians have granted many favours to both I's.
 
Islamabad’s self-goal

When Pakistan’s intelligence services arrested Kulbhushan Jadhav, they thought they had found the smoking gun that would help them make the case against India for orchestrating terrorism, especially in insurgency-stricken Balochistan. So far, the only significant outcome of the sequence of events involving Jadhav is the worsening of India-Pakistan ties.

The international community, which has become accustomed to South Asian histrionics, does not seem too moved by the debate over whether Jadhav is a spy or not and whether India or Pakistan is right in this latest of their periodic spats.

Jadhav’s arrest was followed by a video-taped confession and an unannounced trial by a military court resulting in a death sentence. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) has now stayed the execution while it hears India’s plea that Pakistan violated the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations by denying Jadhav consular access, saying that India’s assertion is “plausible”.

The ICJ’s preliminary ruling is a snub to Pakistan, which is arguing that the ICJ lacks jurisdiction. Pakistan rests its case on Article (vi) of the May 21, 2008 Agreement on Consular Access between India and Pakistan, which states that “in case of arrest, detention or sentence made on political or security grounds, each side may examine the case on its merits.”

Precedent indicates that the ICJ does not interpret bilateral agreements in a manner that supercedes obligations of states under international treaties. The ICJ is likely to find Pakistan in violation of the Vienna Convention over denial of consular access even in its final verdict, even if it does not go further in its ruling.

Pakistan could ignore the ICJ’s injunction, as some hyper-nationalists are already suggesting, but doing so would come at a price in international goodwill. As it is, Pakistan’s standing in the comity of nations is not very high at the moment. Refusing to implement the decision of the international court on grounds of sovereignty might get applause at home, but will not improve Pakistan’s relations with a world already sceptical of Pakistan’s policies.

Notwithstanding the final outcome of the ICJ proceedings, it is unlikely that Pakistan’s real goal in the Jadhav matter will be achieved. That goal is to convince the world that India is as much to blame, if not more, for terrorism on Pakistani soil as Pakistan is for terrorism in India and beyond.

The military men who make such decisions in Pakistan are trained as soldiers, not lawyers or politicians. Their simple mind does not understand that international support for a nation depends on its political and economic clout, not its ability to produce uncorroborated confessional statements of spies or would-be terrorists.

Currently, India is the bigger trading partner of all major countries than Pakistan, many of whom also look at it as a destination or source of investment. Such interests act as a deterrent to most global actors supporting Pakistan’s claim of being pushed around by India with the help of “spies” or “terrorism enablers” that Pakistan arrests and sentences.

The rest of the world already knows that India and Pakistan spy on each other. It is not much of a secret, nor is the claim by both sides that the other supports insurgencies inside its territory, and hanging someone just to prove that point is rather unnecessary.

In any case, assuming Pakistan’s assertions on the Jadhav case are all correct, a single spy distributing money to would-be secessionists or insurrectionists is not the same as running training camps for jihadi groups for three decades.

Most of the countries Pakistan is hoping to convince of Indian perfidy have, over the years, documented Pakistan’s support for groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Muhammad, recognised all over the world as terrorist groups. Pakistan does not help its case by allowing these groups to operate under new names after banning them. Nor is it helped by the public activities and media appearances of the leaders of such groups.

What, then, does Pakistan’s military-intelligence complex hope to achieve by prolonging the confrontation over one individual Indian, spy or not? It is probably meant to heighten the sentiment in Pakistan, carefully nurtured over the years by its establishment, that India remains Pakistan’s “eternal enemy”. It will likely also deter civilian leaders, mainly Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, from any new initiative to mend fences with India.

Media frenzy about the arrest and sentencing of a spy will keep the pot of neighbourly enmity boiling, even if it is largely ignored outside South Asia. Pakistan’s hyper-nationalist narrative already positions the country as the target of a global conspiracy and portrays its nuclear-armed military and intelligence agency as the only bulwarks against annihilation.

Jadhav’s conviction for espionage helps the Pakistani establishment advance its case to Pakistanis of a besieged Pakistan that would be at India’s mercy were it not for the military and the ISI.

Already, social media — widely manipulated by the ISI’s ‘M’ (for media) Wing and extensive activism from retired military officers — is advancing conspiracy theories about civilian collusion with India. Sharif’s government is alleged to have compromised Pakistan’s “principled stance” on the Jadhav case by appearing before the ICJ instead of going ahead and carrying out Jadhav’s sentence.

If the objective of Pakistan’s establishment is to keep India-Pakistan hatred alive, the truth about who Kulbhushan Jadhav is and what he was doing when he was picked up is hardly relevant. The desire to internationalise the India-Pakistan conflict, however, seems hardly likely to be fulfilled any time soon.

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...e-stay-pakistan-india-relations-4662790/lite/
 
No, I didn't say or believe that the case would be thrown out. But it's really funny to see the Indians jumping up and down with excitement as if Yadav were declared innocent by the ICJ (and India had won its case) ....

We are happy because three claims by Pakistan have been proven wrong and one stance by Pakistan has been rejected by ICJ

1. Pakistan said no jurisdiction as this is the case of terrorism, was refuted by the court.
2. Confession Video is not the evidence, not permissible on this basis Pak said no jurisdiction because of terrorism.
3 Counsellor access under a36 Para 1 VC must be immediately granted as per law.
4. Stay order on execution till he has been proved guilty with proper trial.
 
We are happy because three claims by Pakistan have been proven wrong and one stance by Pakistan has been rejected by ICJ

1. Pakistan said no jurisdiction as this is the case of terrorism, was refuted by the court.
2. Confession Video is not the evidence, not permissible on this basis Pak said no jurisdiction because of terrorism.
3 Counsellor access under a36 Para 1 VC must be immediately granted as per law.
4. Stay order on execution till he has been proved guilty with proper trial.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but none of Pakistan's claims has been "proven wrong" so far. Only hearing grounds have been admitted and the court has decided to hear this case. It's just an interim order/relief.
 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but none of Pakistan's claims has been "proven wrong" so far. Only hearing grounds have been admitted and the court has decided to hear this case. It's just an interim order/relief.

Pakistan approached ICJ with two points only.
1. No jurisdiction over this case as it deals with terrorism
2. The video of confession which Pakistan believed to be an evidence.

And both got rejected. That's all.
 
what they were saying before yesterday verdict:
"Its doesnt suit to a General to take back its bullet that has already been fired".

even today is last day to file the petition for Kulbhushan jadhav and i am sure it will not be filled. so their plan was to hang him by tomorrow or day after tomorrow. thats why ICJ take it as a urgency matter and stay the death penalty.

Thank you ICJ for taking it seriously.
 
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but none of Pakistan's claims has been "proven wrong" so far. Only hearing grounds have been admitted and the court has decided to hear this case. It's just an interim order/relief.
1. ICJ has not said that India's claim is correct.
2. It has stated that India will have to prove its claim to qualify for relief
3. Pakistan's legal team was ill prepared. Such cases are not contested on one day or week notice. They should have bought time for preparation. It seems that things have been done in urgency to make favourable grounds of opponents. Had Pakistan not sent the consent to ICJ on 29th March 2017. This case would have been inadmissible and a simple letter to ICJ indicating it to be beyond its jurisdiction would have been enough.
4. ICJ has created its jurisdiction on the basis of Indian application, whereas it has observed that India has not been able to prove its version. In such scenario they should have returned the application for furnishing sufficient evidence. It clearly indicates that ICJ has not given a verdict against Pakistan, but has done passed an interim order to favour India.
 
Published May 19, 2017
SOURCE: TNN
http://us.news.itthon.ma/news/kulbh...an-government-to-get-new-lawyers-for-icj-case

nawaz-sharif_647_040516090334_051917023330.jpg


Under fire from almost everyone at home after yesterday’s Hague ruling in the Kulbhushan Jadhav case, the Pakistan government plans to set up a new team of lawyers to argue the case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), Pakistani media reported.

The new team will “present Pakistan’s stance vigorously” at the ICJ, said Sartaj Aziz, adviser to Pakistan’s Prime Minister, several Pakistani media outlets reported.

Yesterday, the ICJ stayed Indian national Jadhav’s execution until it hears and decides the case filed by India. Jadhav, who was “arrested” by Pakistan last year, allegedly in that country, was sentenced to death for “espionage” by a military court last year.

Pakistan’s counsel had “courageously” presented the country’s stance at the international court, Aziz said, according to The Express Tribune. “Pakistan’s security is so important and we have to maintain our fundamental sovereign right,” he added.

After the ICJ’s ruling staying Jadhav’s execution, opposition parties and sundry legal experts in Pakistan slammed the Nawaz Sharif government for even arguing the case in the international court.

“It is about time that Pakistan should review its strategy and hire a new legal team to defend the case in the ICJ, which has ruled its jurisdiction over the case despite the fact that Pakistan had recently entered a Revised Declaration under Article 36(2) of the statute of the ICJ on March 29, 2017,” said a columnist in Pakistan Today.

This article added that the new clause excluded ICJ’s jurisdiction on “all matters related to the national security of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan”.Immediately after the ICJ’s ruling yesterday, a retired Pakistani judge told Dawn newspaper the court’s decision was “alarming” because the “ICJ does not have jurisdiction”.

“It’s Pakistan’s mistake to have appeared there. They shouldn’t have attended. They have shot themselves in the foot,” the retired judge, Shaiq Usmani, told Dawn.

An opposition politician, Shireen Mazari, had similar views. The Tehreek-e-Insaf politician said Pakistan could have withdrawn from being party to the Vienna Convention’s optional protocol.A former Pakistan attorney general Irfan Qadir also expressed shock at the ICJ’s decision.

“The lawyers handling these matters had no experience. The arguments had no weight. They should have been presented in a rational manner,” Qadir told Dawn. “We need a dedicated team for Pakistan, loyal to the country. Pakistan’s jurisprudence has been ruined because of this.”

Another opposition leader, the Pakistan People’s Party’s Sherry Rehman also criticised Pakistan’s legal team.”We based our case on jurisdiction and it proved weak. More arguments should have been made regarding espionage,” Rehman said.Yet another jurisdiction-based argument came from a senior Pakistani lawyer who didn’t wish to be named.

“If Indians could show reservations over the ICJ jurisdiction on Kashmir, Pakistan might also adopt the same approach in the matter related to the trial of terrorists by civilian and military courts,” the lawyer told The Express Tribune.
 
Moment of introspection.
Very few nation on planet has such shameful resilience to defend an indefensible.
Instead of biting on Nawaz's back, Pakistani should question what actually went wrong in the judicial process in the case of Jadhav verdict.
nothing went wrong its just you are trying your best to save your terrorist so the moral of other terrorist which are already in our country and also those which your are making ready to send in our country don't get down because if this monkey is hanged then other monkeys will also fear death and will either ran away or just abandon their mission so to avoid that you have to save this monkey

BESIDES IN THE BEGINNING YOU WER NOT EVEN ACCEPTING HIM AS YOUR NATIONAL AND NOW HE IS SON OF SOIL CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY NO IN BEGINNING AND SO MUCH EFFORT NOW??
 
Pakistan approached ICJ with two points only.
1. No jurisdiction over this case as it deals with terrorism
2. The video of confession which Pakistan believed to be an evidence.

And both got rejected. That's all.


I have the honor, by direction of the President of the lslamic Republic of Pakistan to declare that [the] Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan recognizes as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement in relation to any other State accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice under the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

This Declaration revokes and substitutes the previous Declaration made on 12 September 1960.

(Signed) Dr. Maleeha Lodhi
Permanent Representative of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

http://www.icj-cij.org/jurisdiction/?p1=5&p2=1&p3=3&code=PK


This declaration was signed by pakistan on 29th of March 2017

Wonder if this case comes under any of the provisions.

and...the so called "confessional videos" look as fake as Pamela anderson's oo
 

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