Hun Sen praise China and blames USA

[Aepsilons]

USA did nothing concretly to support Khmer Rouge after Vietnam war, only China did with weapon and military advisers. in fact, in cold war China is trapped by US when China PRC thought that US will let China to be boss of region.

Talking about Indo-China ambitous of Vietnam is cheap propaganda of PRC.

Yes, that is true. The United States doesn't really have the best intelligence gathering network , as recent events have shown in this epoch. So the same reality is true in regards to American interaction with Cambodia during this time frame of the post-American evacuation of Southern Vietnam.

well said. plus, with the Khmer Kingdom becoming weaker and weaker, Cambodia is unable to stop both Vietnam and Thailand as the duo sought hegemony on indochinese mainland. it is understandable the khmer seek help from China. cambodia and laos were in danger being slowing swallowed by Vietnam and Thailand.

In fact, my friend, Cambodia was indeed "swallowed" by both the Vietnamese Empire and the Siamese Empires on various times in history. The Siamese King Taksin the Great (the ruler who saved Siam from the Burmese) actually punished the Khmer King Anuvong after he liberated Siam because during the years when Siam was being subjugated by the Burmese Tongoo, the Khmers cooperated with the Burmese to seize eastern Siamese territories that were given in return by the Burmese for "helping" subjugate the Great Siamese Empire.

When King Taksin I rose to the throne of Siam, after he defeated the Burmese near what is now Louang Prabang , he then sent his army to Lovek (then capital of Kampuchea / Cambodia) and he sacked it. Burned it to the ground and enslaved the whole population , brought them back to what is now Ayudhaya.

The same thing with the Vietnamese Emperor Gia Long took the throne, he then led a campaign to defeat the Siamese near what is now Battambang and made eastern Cambodia a Vietnamese "sattelite" state. A tributary state, if you may.

 

[kankan326]

Talking about Indo-China ambitous of Vietnam is cheap propaganda of PRC.

Cheap propaganda, Really? Unfortunately Vietnam turned the propaganda into real action. The invasion of Cambodia was obvious a long cherished plot of Vietnam. Forget about the excuse of liberating Cambodia from Khmer Rouge made by Vietnamese. After the Cambodia, Vietnam even attempted to attack Thailand.

 

[Viet]

China and USA had to support Pol Pot. Because Vietnam was aggressive and had ambition to annex whole Indo-China region back then. Pol Pot was too mad to fear anything. He was the only guy in Cambodia who had the guts to challenge Vietnam. For the same reason, US also supported Bin Laden in Afghanistan to resist Soviet Union's invasion.

bullshit. it was pol pot that dreamed of return of khmer kingdom. yes, he was mad. cambodia was the first, who started the war. google for when the cambodian army attacked Vietnamese cities.

 

[kankan326]

well said. plus, with the Khmer Kingdom becoming weaker and weaker, Cambodia is unable to stop both Vietnam and Thailand as the duo sought hegemony on indochinese mainland. it is understandable the khmer seek help from China. cambodia and laos were in danger being slowing swallowed by Vietnam and Thailand. with VN having the upper hand. because we have a more capable army.

You pretty much explained Vietnam's invasion on Cambodia is not a cheap propaganda.

 

[Aepsilons]

bullshit. it was pol pot that dreamed of return of khmer kingdom. yes, he was mad. cambodia was the frst, who started the war.

lol, reminds me of the Khmer Kings of the past who wanted and loved to attack Dai Viet lands. That really resulted in good for them didn't it? lol

(being sarcastic)

 

[kankan326]

bullshit. it was pol pot that dreamed of return of khmer kingdom. yes, he was mad. cambodia was the first, who started the war. google for when the cambodian army attacked Vietnamese cities.

I didn't say Pol Pot was a pacifist, okay? He was a jerk. But it doesn't mean Vietnam was an angle. Actually both sides were hatching evil plans to the other.

 

[Aepsilons]

You pretty much explained Vietnam's invasion on Cambodia is not a cheap propaganda.

Can you really blame Vietnam? Viet Nam is Sinicized civilization and saw itself as receiving the mandate of Heaven and the approval of the Son of Heaven (the Emperor of China). So in a way, China's Imperial System gave legitimacy to Vietnamese Expansionism. In fact during the rule of the Tayson and Nguyen Dynasties, in return for Vietnamese Emperor's recognition of the Son of Heaven (The Emperor of China), the Chinese supported Vietnamese rulers to expand and "civilize" the barbarians of the south (Cambodians, Champa, Siamese, all non-sinic people).

The Vietnamese, in all intents and purposes, very much acted like the hand of Tianxia , my friend.

 

[Viet]

You pretty much explained Vietnam's invasion on Cambodia is not a cheap propaganda.

the map depicts the period, 18-19 century, when the Kingdoms of Vietnam and Thailand were fighting for hegemony in SE Asia. the invasion of Cambodia in 20 century following their attacks on VN happened in another time another geopolical game. don´t mix up!

 

[Indos]

@Nihonjin1051

You really have a broad knowledge buddy.....

I wonder you are now actually working for US/ Japanese think tank organisation

 

[Aepsilons]

the map depicts the period, 18-19 century, when the Kingdoms of Vietnam and Thailand were fighting for hegemony in SE Asia. the invasion of Cambodia in 20 century following their attacks on VN happened in another time another geopolical game. don´t mix up!

Very true. Very true.

In Southeast Asia during this age before gun and steel there were 2 great rivalries:

1. Land-based Imperial Rivalry : Between Ayuthaya Emire /Siamese and Vietnamese Empire / Dai Viet

2. Maritime-based Imperial Rivalry: Sri Vijaya Empire and Majapahit Empire

 

[Viet]

lol, reminds me of the Khmer Kings of the past who wanted and loved to attack Dai Viet lands. That really resulted in good for them didn't it? lol

(being sarcastic)

ok, back then, it is the law of the jungle: only the fittest survives. the khmers reached their height in 12 century, they surely wanted to annihilate Dai Viet. too bad for them, we are stronger.

 

[Rechoice]

Cheap propaganda, Really? Unfortunately Vietnam turned the propaganda into real action. The invasion of Cambodia was obvious a long cherished plot of Vietnam. Forget about the excuse of liberating Cambodia from Khmer Rouge made by Vietnamese. After the Cambodia, Vietnam even attempted to attack Thailand.

You are brainwashed.

Why Ho Chi Minh has divided Indo China communist party in to 3 separated Communist party in 1951 ? Vietnam had supported our camrades to liberation their country from Colonie system of France. No more.

Some chinese member here on this forum has openly talking about backyard of China in South East Asia. This is true stategy of China, in other word, this is "dream" of China.

 

[Aepsilons]

ok, back then, it is the law of the jungle: only the fittest survives. the khmers reached their height in 12 century, they surely wanted to annihilate Dai Viet. too bad for them, we are stronger.

Yes, I think we tend to inapproriately give 'sympathy' to the Khmers because of their current weak status. But that is wrong display of historical understanding. During the 11th century till 13th century the Khmers ruled most of Southeast Asia and were ruthless to their subject peoples. They were the ones who sacked the civilization of Funan (a pre-Khmer/ Austroasiatic civilization in present day central Vietnam). The Khmers were involved in genocidal campaigns against the Malays in what is now present day Johor and Songkla. In the east, the Khmers were constantly waging war against the Cham people and the Champa state; to the north they were continously trying to war with the Viets, even trying to invade Dai Viet multiple times. And on their northwest they had enslaved the "Tais" tribes, who would eventually destroy them from the inside.

We tend to think that the Khmers are all innocent in their history and a product of imperialism. No. The truth is that when Cambodia was powerful, she was brutal, ruthless to her neighbors. The only reason why she is in this current situation was because her constant wars with small neighbors had devastated their population. This is why the Tais "Siamese" overpowered them in Sukkothai.

 

[Viet]

Can you really blame Vietnam? Viet Nam is Sinicized civilization and saw itself as receiving the mandate of Heaven and the approval of the Son of Heaven (the Emperor of China). So in a way, China's Imperial System gave legitimacy to Vietnamese Expansionism. In fact during the rule of the Tayson and Nguyen Dynasties, in return for Vietnamese Emperor's recognition of the Son of Heaven (The Emperor of China), the Chinese supported Vietnamese rulers to expand and "civilize" the barbarians of the south (Cambodians, Champa, Siamese, all non-sinic people).

The Vietnamese, in all intents and purposes, very much acted like the hand of Tianxia , my friend.

exactly, in 19 century when VN conquered Cambodia, we brought civilization to them, a country viewed as populated babarians. Emperor Ming Mang introduced VN laws and order, even forbad khmer women wearing skirts. the women had to wear trouser. a chinese custom.

 

[Aepsilons]

exactly, in 19 century when VN conquered Cambodia, we brought civilization to them, a country viewed as populated babarians. Emperor Ming Mang introduced VN laws and order, even forbad khmer women wearing skirts. the women had to wear trouser. a chinese custom.

Yes, i also know that the Vietnamese brought not just political change, but also social changes. Prior to Vietnamese integrative processes, Cambodians also practiced a form of slavery , something that the Siamese also practiced. In fact Siam would outlaw this form of social disgrace almost a century later during the rule of King Chulalongkorn the Great (Rama V), at the encouragement of the British.

The practice of slavery was very much outlawed in Confucian societies of China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam.

exactly, in 19 century when VN conquered Cambodia, we brought civilization to them, a country viewed as populated babarians. Emperor Ming Mang introduced VN laws and order, even forbad khmer women wearing skirts. the women had to wear trouser. a chinese custom.

Ming Mang also introduced the Civil Examination and Civil Administration system to Cambodia. It was a form of Confucian influence in this historically Thervadda Dharmic society.

exactly, in 19 century when VN conquered Cambodia, we brought civilization to them, a country viewed as populated babarians. Emperor Ming Mang introduced VN laws and order, even forbad khmer women wearing skirts. the women had to wear trouser. a chinese custom.

@Viet ,

If i am not correct, i think the practice of women having their breasts exposed was common in Siamese, Khmer and Burmese societies prior to Western colonial contact. I remember reading a historical text when the Japanese traveler and cartographer named 山田 長政 [Yamada Nagamasa] noted in his journals that when he visited the city of Ayudhaya in present day Thailand, the women in that civilization were naked, only wearing a short sarong. The only 'clothing' they would wear would be gold necklaces or gold bracelets. This was very much foreign so much that Yamada described the Siamese practice of exposure as "barbarious, uncivilized", since in Japanese society , a Confucian society, espoused the importance of civic decency and social grace of covering oneself , conservative clothing was practiced.