What's new

How to Lose China

muse

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
13,006
Reaction score
0
Pakistan's relations with China have not been the same since the PPP government came to power, Pakistan have mismanaged the single most important relationship they have - Primarily because they have misread the Chinese, how did this come about?



Capital suggestion



Peking Man

Sunday, May 31, 2009
Dr Farrukh Saleem

"The Gwadar Port Project does not make much sense for China", says Professor Zha Daojiong, China's premier energy expert and a leading light at Peking University's School of International Studies. According to Dr Yang Jiemian, president of the prestigious and influential Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, China's Pakistan-policy is under active review.

I am indebted to Heinrich-Boll-Stiftung, Beijing office, for sponsoring my interactions with Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, and Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, Department of South Asia Studies, China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, Peking University's Women's Law Studies and Transition Institute. According to my colleague, Imtiaz Gul, the "China myth now stands demystified".

The 'Peking Man', the 500,000-year old fossil evidence of human presence in China, has transformed. Alas, Pakistanis are still in love with the Peking Man -- 'our friendship higher than the Himalayas and deeper than the Indian Ocean'. The Peking Man, in the meanwhile, has moved on. The new Peking Man is pragmatic and commonsensical, earthly and wise -- all those things and perhaps to a flaw.

China's foreign policy establishment now relies heavily on academics -- like Professor Zha Daojion -- and members of the think-tank community, like Dr Yang Jiemian. Over the past decade, China has invested heavily into the development of think-tanks; human capital, plush research offices along with superior perks and privileges.

There is evidence that the old Peking Man was "able to control and use fire'. There is evidence now that the new Peking Man has a singular goal -- to double, triple and quadruple China's $4 trillion GDP by 2050. And, any country that can help China go where it wants to go is a friend -- or you are on your own (in FY 2008, total Foreign Direct Investment into Pakistan stood at $5 billion and of that China invested a paltry $13.7 million or 0.27 per cent of the total). Yes, China has over the past few years invested $198 million into the Gwadar Port Project but there's evidence aplenty that China is in no mood to take America head-on and if America develops a serious interest in a particular region China backs off right away.

Yes, 722 soldiers of the People's Liberation Army were killed in the Sino-Indian War but that was 47 years ago (more than 3,000 Indian soldiers were killed in the Sino-Indian War of 1962). In 2000, President Narayanan visited China. In 2002, Premier Zhu Rongji was in India. In 2003, PM Vajpayee went to China. In 2004, India and China agreed to open up Jelepla and Nathula trading posts. In 2005, Premier Wen Jiabao was in Bangalore. In 2006, ONGC Videsh Ltd and China National Petroleum Corporation signed an agreement to undertake joint bids. Sino-Indian trade now exceeds a mammoth $52 billion a year (Pakistan-China bilateral trade is around $7 billion a year).

Yes, America and China may in effect be long-term strategic adversaries but Sino-US trade now exceeds $333 billion a year (1992: $33 billion). Furthermore, almost all of $1.9 trillion worth of China's foreign exchange reserves are dollar denominated. China, as a consequence, has an intrinsic interest in the health of the US dollar and by extension in the well-being of the US economy. Additionally, US companies have established more than 20,000 joint ventures in China while 100 of the top US-based multinationals have ongoing projects in China.

Yes, there's a strategic angle to Pakistan-China relationship. Pakistan, for instance, can become a geographical impediment to America's China-containment policy. China also uses Pakistan to cap India's geo-strategic ambitions. And then, China is very concerned -- and seeks Pakistan's help -- in containing the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (the militant organisation that wants to create an independent Islamic state out of China's Xinjiang region). For Pakistan, China is a major supplier of military hardware, nuclear reactors and a counter leverage to the US.

Shanghai and Beijing have very little 'Chinese' left in them -- both are concrete jungles with American-style webs of freeways, grade separations and interchanges. Shanghai is all about dollars and cents while Beijing is more political.

Where does Pakistan fit into this new game of dollars and cents? We are all about emotions and commotions, about pride and rage. The new Peking Man is pragmatic and realistic, astute and hard-boiled. We ought to trade some of our emotionalism in exchange for some of their pragmatism. The question is if they would be willing to do that.




The writer is the executive director of the Centre for Research and Security Studies (CRSS). Email: farrukh15@ hotmail.com
 
Where does Pakistan fit into this new game of dollars and cents? We are all about emotions and commotions, about pride and rage. The new Peking Man is pragmatic and realistic, astute and hard-boiled. We ought to trade some of our emotionalism in exchange for some of their pragmatism. The question is if they would be willing to do that


I think Pakistanis are more than willing to join the new paradigm, unfortunately it is a question mark whether the leadership is willing to drop the "pride and rage" ethic -- for so long these have been the currency of political exchange and policy making.

For those Pakistanis who are able to, they must travel to China, they must see with their own eyes what is going on and that we are risking ourselves with this "pride and rage" business.

Indian and China are doing some US$$ 60.00 Billion in annual trade, please allow yourselves to think about this, please, for the sake of Pakistan - think abou the implication we fail to do a competative amount of trade with our major security partner -- then ask yourself what is preventing Pakistan from doing this competitive amount of trade and what must be done for this to change -- because something will change, it has to - either, Pakistan may find that their lethargy will have resulted in losing an ally or Pakistan may have to align in a different manner - I hope you realize that implication for us and our relationship with China.
 
I think Pakistanis are more than willing to join the new paradigm, unfortunately it is a question mark whether the leadership is willing to drop the "pride and rage" ethic -- for so long these have been the currency of political exchange and policy making.

For those Pakistanis who are able to, they must travel to China, they must see with their own eyes what is going on and that we are risking ourselves with this "pride and rage" business.

Indian and China are doing some US$$ 60.00 Billion in annual trade, please allow yourselves to think about this, please, for the sake of Pakistan - think abou the implication we fail to do a competative amount of trade with our major security partner -- then ask yourself what is preventing Pakistan from doing this competitive amount of trade and what must be done for this to change -- because something will change, it has to - either, Pakistan may find that their lethargy will have resulted in losing an ally or Pakistan may have to align in a different manner - I hope you realize that implication for us and our relationship with China.

Muse, but what is your point? .... sorry, but as i see it, with the kind of trouble's in your country, i was expecting hyper inflation some time back. Except for IMF, you guys have kept the head up for most part.

You and Us, will need to rethink on your external policies for sure. World is moving ahead, and we sure aint catching up.
 
I was hoping to inject alarm and motivate to discussion and action. I am not suggesting that Pakistan's relationship with China bve about India - Quite the opposite -- as the article points out, we must realize that the world is changing fast and our "pride and rage" ethic is doing us harm and not good.

Pakistan/India -- You it would be great if we would work the problem out, but it did nto happen in the life time of my father, I don't expect it will happen in my life time - and the reason nothing worked out was both "pride" and the "balance" of terror -- this balance is now shifting India's favor (read Pakistan's rage) and Pakistan have responded by ensuring that India will not feel sufficiently confident enough to welcome adventure (read nuclear in a minute)

So, something in this relationship has to change very quickly and decisively, for Pakistan and India to grow up.
 
Pakistan/India -- You it would be great if we would work the problem out, but it did nto happen in the life time of my father, I don't expect it will happen in my life time - and the reason nothing worked out was both "pride" and the "balance" of terror -- this balance is now shifting India's favor (read Pakistan's rage) and Pakistan have responded by ensuring that India will not feel sufficiently confident enough to welcome adventure (read nuclear in a minute)

So, something in this relationship has to change very quickly and decisively, for Pakistan and India to grow up.

True. BUT ...Somewhere down the lane both of us will to be more accommodating of each other. We will have to keep aside the existing difference's (or engage through dialogue) and move ahead.
I don't see it coming from india (what will all the coalition politics being the rage), unless we have some win-win situation for both side's.

The recent election here proved that religion and anti-pakistani slogans are no longer the bait ... people want economic growth. You guys will need to give the same message to your leader's. As desired by many Pakistani posters here, there aint any leader coming with shining Armour to bail you out. You guys will need to do it yourself. And do it fast.
 
Just because China is trading and having cordial relations with India and the U.S. does not mean we are simply going to abandon Pakistan.

'Nuff said.
 
Fennecus

Yes, you make a valid point, however; I think the article is pointing towards creating a qualitative and quantitatively more compex relationship between Pakistan and China that is more that security related - For such a relationship to be continue to be successful, Pakistan and China will have employ the same framework on which to base their relationship. For Pakistan this means leaving behind the pride and rage bit and moving into the world of $$ and cents in a more vigorous and successful manner, in partnership with China.
 
Chinese are honorable , and dependable people and nation. :china:

The have morals and values and one hell of chinese buffet.

Furthermore, they have been there for Pakistan then any other ally , and thus Pakistan is eternally grateful for that friendship.

China is a GLOBAL world super power unlike some wana be :guns: slumdogs.

The great chinese nation deserve to have access to the strategic , port of gawadar, since it will enable china to attain , gas form Iran via pakistan and also develop trade between china + Iran + Pakistan into most of middle east. As oppose to shipping it all across the ocean

The global cooperation ensures that Chinese economy continues to develop and it does not gets surrounded by all sides by Un ethical , forces of evil such as you know who , and India.

All in all , China needs friends and Pakistan is a true friend
"A friend in need is a friend indeed" unlike you know who who banned weapons to pakistan in 1971

Again , China Pakistan and US relatioship is a increasingly important relationship , with the Iran - Pakistan PEACE GAS PIPELINE with out india - developing its only natural that a great nation like China will want some gas for its citizens , and Pakistanis will help China attain their natural needs to grow as a Nation and GREAT NATION. And we as Pakistanis will be proud to see our friend do so good, just like they do in Olympics outclass every other country.

Becasue Chinese spirit is special - :azn:

China pakistan , will build an awac , and future planes , and together they will also develop nuclear energy plants with help from france

This is the future

CHINA + PAKISTAN


CHINA does not like the idea of being surrounded by army basis belonging to hostile - foes , and its natural CHINA IS LAND OF THE FREE AND LAND OF BRAVE

Hopefull this strategic partnership will develop into

Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran this is a natural progression of evolution

Also lets not forget China has bought US companies to help US economy so China is not greedy it wants to explore cooperation

BUT CHINA + PAKISTAN FOREVER

When one studies chinese KUNG FU the monks use honorable defensive skills to limit damage unlike some Slumdogs that just buy weapons to feel good.

Chinese man , are true class - and HONOR .. they know meaning of true friendship and Pakistan LOVES china
 
Last edited:
Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran this is a natural progression of evolution

lol.. the Russians would eat Pakistan if they had the Chance. Thank Pakistan for its superb military.. people easily forget 1980-`1989
 
Chinese are honorable , and dependable people and nation. :china:

The have morals and values and one hell of chinese buffet.

Furthermore, they have been there for Pakistan then any other ally , and thus Pakistan is eternally grateful for that friendship.

China is a GLOBAL world super power unlike some wana be :guns: slumdogs.

The great chinese nation deserve to have access to the strategic , port of gawadar, since it will enable china to attain , gas form Iran via pakistan and also develop trade between china + Iran + Pakistan into most of middle east. As oppose to shipping it all across the ocean

The global cooperation ensures that Chinese economy continues to develop and it does not gets surrounded by all sides by Un ethical , forces of evil such as you know who , and India.

All in all , China needs friends and Pakistan is a true friend
"A friend in need is a friend indeed" unlike you know who who banned weapons to pakistan in 1971

Again , China Pakistan and US relatioship is a increasingly important relationship , with the Iran - Pakistan PEACE GAS PIPELINE with out india - developing its only natural that a great nation like China will want some gas for its citizens , and Pakistanis will help China attain their natural needs to grow as a Nation and GREAT NATION. And we as Pakistanis will be proud to see our friend do so good, just like they do in Olympics outclass every other country.

Becasue Chinese spirit is special - :azn:

China pakistan , will build an awac , and future planes , and together they will also develop nuclear energy plants with help from france

This is the future

CHINA + PAKISTAN


CHINA does not like the idea of being surrounded by army basis belonging to hostile - foes , and its natural CHINA IS LAND OF THE FREE AND LAND OF BRAVE

Hopefull this strategic partnership will develop into

Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran this is a natural progression of evolution

Also lets not forget China has bought US companies to help US economy so China is not greedy it wants to explore cooperation

BUT CHINA + PAKISTAN FOREVER

When one studies chinese KUNG FU the monks use honorable defensive skills to limit damage unlike some Slumdogs that just buy weapons to feel good.

Chinese man , are true class - and HONOR .. they know meaning of true friendship and Pakistan LOVES china

you're funny man....
so how do the Chinese 'balls' taste??....:rofl::rofl:
 
Azad Pakistan,
I don't think you got to this part of the article, which talks about keeping your emotions in check.

We are all about emotions and commotions, about pride and rage. The new Peking Man is pragmatic and realistic, astute and hard-boiled. We ought to trade some of our emotionalism in exchange for some of their pragmatism. The question is if they would be willing to do that.
 
Chinese are honorable , and dependable people and nation. :china:

The have morals and values and one hell of chinese buffet.

Furthermore, they have been there for Pakistan then any other ally , and thus Pakistan is eternally grateful for that friendship.

China is a GLOBAL world super power unlike some wana be :guns: slumdogs.

The great chinese nation deserve to have access to the strategic , port of gawadar, since it will enable china to attain , gas form Iran via pakistan and also develop trade between china + Iran + Pakistan into most of middle east. As oppose to shipping it all across the ocean

The global cooperation ensures that Chinese economy continues to develop and it does not gets surrounded by all sides by Un ethical , forces of evil such as you know who , and India.

All in all , China needs friends and Pakistan is a true friend
"A friend in need is a friend indeed" unlike you know who who banned weapons to pakistan in 1971

Again , China Pakistan and US relatioship is a increasingly important relationship , with the Iran - Pakistan PEACE GAS PIPELINE with out india - developing its only natural that a great nation like China will want some gas for its citizens , and Pakistanis will help China attain their natural needs to grow as a Nation and GREAT NATION. And we as Pakistanis will be proud to see our friend do so good, just like they do in Olympics outclass every other country.

Becasue Chinese spirit is special - :azn:

China pakistan , will build an awac , and future planes , and together they will also develop nuclear energy plants with help from france

This is the future

CHINA + PAKISTAN


CHINA does not like the idea of being surrounded by army basis belonging to hostile - foes , and its natural CHINA IS LAND OF THE FREE AND LAND OF BRAVE

Hopefull this strategic partnership will develop into

Russia + China + Pakistan + Iran this is a natural progression of evolution

Also lets not forget China has bought US companies to help US economy so China is not greedy it wants to explore cooperation

BUT CHINA + PAKISTAN FOREVER

When one studies chinese KUNG FU the monks use honorable defensive skills to limit damage unlike some Slumdogs that just buy weapons to feel good.

Chinese man , are true class - and HONOR .. they know meaning of true friendship and Pakistan LOVES china

slumdogs huh?:tsk: i hope u get banned
 
lol.. the Russians would eat Pakistan if they had the Chance. Thank Pakistan for its superb military.. people easily forget 1980-`1989

Well that wasn't just Pakistan on its own. The US played a very important role.
And believe it or not, Israel also played its part :P
 
china is the most dependable friend we have got. but inorder to keep it that way we must sort out our house in accordance with the new world. our president visitin china twice in 6 months is not gonna work.
 

Back
Top Bottom