History Matters: 5 Myths About Israel

[Solomon2]

History Matters: 5 Myths About Israel
Posted by: Ryan Bellerose in Ryan October 9, 2015

Ryan Bellerose
A member of the indigenous Metis people, Ryan grew up in the far north of Alberta, Canada with no power nor running water. Ryan was unsure if his real name was "Go get water!" or "Go get wood!" In his free time, Ryan plays Canadian Rules Football , reads books, does advocacy work for indigenous people and does not live in an Igloo.




I guess I could have taken the easy way and used the old canard “Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.” But let’s be honest: all of us have heard that ad nauseum, and it doesn’t seem to matter, so I will take a different tack.

I come from a people who hold great amounts of knowledge in our oral history. We do not simply take whatever the written word says as being particularly perfect. In fact, we tend to take the word of our elders over whatever it is that is written in history books. We do this because it’s been our experience that colonizers have a certain agenda and it hasn’t exactly been kind to Indians.

For instance, we do not see ourselves as savages, as uncivilized bumpkins who needed the magnificent white culture to come and take us out of ignorance. We had equality in our societies, with equal rights for men women and children, as well as homosexuals. Murder, rape and crimes of that nature were incredibly rare in our societies, as were crimes against children. We looked after our sick and our elderly and poverty was almost non existent. This is why when an educated Indian hears a white person telling us about how much better off we are, we sort of chuckle in a sad, wry way. Our history was pretty much hidden the past 100 years, I have lost track of how many times a white person has said “ I had no idea” when I tell them that the Pass system in Canada was really only abolished in the 1960’s. They look at me funny when I tell them that you could literally kill an Indian and not even go to court well into the 1930’s, that Metis people were not allowed to have firearms until after ww1, and that Indians are treated more as wards of the state than as true citizens of Canada. None of these things I learned in school, not even in Native studies in University. All of these things I learned from elders and from study on my own.

There is a very real push to maintain a colonialist narrative to history and to ensure that indigenous peoples are not allowed to see things that should be obvious. Almost nobody in Canada knows that the Metis actually followed the rule of law. When we declared our state, it was valid under international law, and when the Canadian government sent the RCMP to attack us, it was actually not only an act of war, but a criminal one. You will never see this in a mainstream history book – it doesn’t fit the colonialist narrative, the one where only good things come from the colonialists. God forbid indigenous people ever accomplish anything.

That brings me to the history of Israel. I have actually been told by a very intelligent woman, who is actually a heroine of mine, that the Jews did not fight a war of independence against the British, that the Israeli war of independence was against the Arabs. I was somewhat shaken because this woman is very intelligent and very educated. Now if I had only read the mainstream sources, written almost entirely by old white British men, I would probably have agreed with her. If I had only ever studied this conflict in school, I would definitely have agreed with her. But I have spent half my life reading non-mainstream sources – and I am not talking about garbage like Edward Said who bases his entire foundation on false narratives – but on multiple historians including Arabs.

There is a very real push to deny the history and almost the very existence of the Jewish people. It would be laughable if it was not so accepted by so many. Lets talk about a few of these myths that seem innocuous but in fact are so absolutely offensive and dangerous.

Myth One: Israel was created by the colonialists
The truth is that the Jews had to fight tooth and nail for their ancestral lands. While the British opened the door with the San Remo accords, and then the Balfour Declaration, the subsequent partition plan and the Palestinian mandate handing over 75% of the promised land (sorry bad pun) to the Hashemite Arabs to create Jordan, showed pretty clearly that the British were not particularly helpful. When you look at the arms embargo that ended up being completely one-sided, the fact that the British armed and trained the Jordanian legion, and then limited Jewish immigration while encouraging Arab immigration, gives you a very different picture.

It’s rather amusing to me that the same people who claim that the British created Israel, are the same ones who bring up the King David hotel bombing as proof of how bad the Jews are. First, the King David was the centre of the OCCUPATIONAL BRITISH GOVERNMENT. More importantly, they never ask why the Jews would be fighting against the people who were supposedly creating the Jewish nation. It’s a perfect example of why we need to not just listen to the colonialist narrative. They of course want us to believe that without colonialist aid, the Jews would have failed, when in fact the Jews were fighting the colonialists. Feel free to verify this – the British don’t like to admit it but the facts are all there for anyone who wants to actually dig.

Myth Two: Israel IS the colonialist
Now this one is by far the dumbest one. Anyone capable of looking at a map, of reading the Bible or Koran, of reading at a 4th grade level, should be able to see that the Jews come from this place.

“The Jews come from Judeah, the Arabs come from Arabia” is something I am fond of saying to people who argue this idiocy. It’s not exactly rocket science, yet you will have people tell you that the Jews are white Europeans. The genetics show clearly that Ashkenazi jews carry a majority of Middle Eastern blood. The archaeology shows clearly that there was a Jewish presence in the land over 3 thousand years ago. The Bible and Koran show clearly that the Jews were the dominant majority for most of the land’s historical existence. The places have a majority of JEWISH names, except in certain cases where they have colonizer names that have been Arabized, like Neapolis which became Nablus because Arabs cannot say the P sound, (the city is actually called Schechem).

When I was a little kid in sunday school, I read about Hebron, the biblical capital of King David, and of Shiloh where the Jews built the first temple to honor God. These are things that the Arabs cannot gainsay, but they try. The Temple Mount is the site of the Temple, yet the Arabs feel that by desecrating it and building a mosque over the top of it, it suddenly becomes an Arab holy place. No indigenous person would ever accept that line of reasoning.

Judaism itself shows very clearly that the Jews are indigenous. If they were not, their sacred places would be somewhere else, their religious holidays that are based on the seasons would be at different times, their very traditions would be different. The Jews are indigenous, the evidence is overwhelming. The Colonialist world is perfectly ok with everyone seeing Israel as a colonialist project, because frankly if one indigenous people regains control of their ancestral lands, might not another? What if indigenous people started seeing Israel for what it is – an example to indigenous people everywhere of what is possible even for a people who just underwent the worst genocide in modern history, a people who should have been too broken and damaged to ever have had a hope to regain their lands, yet who not only did so, but after regaining it, made it thrive again. If the Jews could do that, is there any reason that Native Canadians couldn’t achieve self determination? The Maori? The Australian indigenous? What if we all started working together? Inconceivable I know, at least to colonizers.

Myth three: Without support from the West, Israel would never have survived
This one is actually kind of funny, because without San Remo we may not have seen open Zionism, but other than that, this is a myth. Let me explain why.

First, the West did next to nothing to aid the creation of Israel. In fact, they did everything to hinder it.

The first and only early support came from somewhere very unexpected – Czechoslovakia! And in an even greater irony, much of the equipment sent to Israel was of German design. It set up one of the ultimate ironies when Jews flying german designed Messerschmidt 109s fought against Arabs flying British designed spitfires. The British and French actually supplied weapons and material to the Arabs while maintaining an embargo against the Jews. America also maintained the embargo, although many American and Canadian Jews sent money and some even went to fight for the nascent Israeli state. we are sold this narrative because we cannot ever be allowed to see indigenous people succeeding without colonialist assistance. That would be catastrophic to the colonialist narrative that nothing good ever happens without their assistance.

Myth four: The Jews massacred the Arabs (“the G word” Genocide)
This one is super easy to debunk simply by looking at the statistics. In over 67 years of conflict, less than 45,000 Arabs have been killed. Now that number still sounds large until you put it in perspective – this was after three major wars and four shooting conflicts. In less than 5 years in Syria, over 250,000 people have been killed, and in Iraq, over 200,000 have died since the Americans invaded. When looked at in context, it becomes clear that the Jews have either exercised great restraint, or they are bad at war – given that they have won every major conflict I think its obvious which it is. This one is just sheer numbers and is not really debatable. Their population has grown sixfold. ‘Nuff said.

Myth five: The Jews oppress the Arabs with THOUSANDS OF CHECKPOINTS and the MASSIVE WALL
I believe there are 13 checkpoints and the “massive wall” is actually a fence for about 90% of its length. It is only a wall in certain areas to prevent snipers. The truth is that the barrier has worked – the number of killings dropped dramatically, the barrier follows a path determined to maximize its effectiveness and it protects the people of Israel from even more random attacks. It may seem that its oppressive but unfortunately the Arabs have yet to demonstrate that they can be trusted not to kill Jews.

 

[Sine Nomine]

History Matters: 5 Myths About Israel
Posted by: Ryan Bellerose in Ryan October 9, 2015

Ryan Bellerose
A member of the indigenous Metis people, Ryan grew up in the far north of Alberta, Canada with no power nor running water. Ryan was unsure if his real name was "Go get water!" or "Go get wood!" In his free time, Ryan plays Canadian Rules Football , reads books, does advocacy work for indigenous people and does not live in an Igloo.




I guess I could have taken the easy way and used the old canard “Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.” But let’s be honest: all of us have heard that ad nauseum, and it doesn’t seem to matter, so I will take a different tack.

I come from a people who hold great amounts of knowledge in our oral history. We do not simply take whatever the written word says as being particularly perfect. In fact, we tend to take the word of our elders over whatever it is that is written in history books. We do this because it’s been our experience that colonizers have a certain agenda and it hasn’t exactly been kind to Indians.

For instance, we do not see ourselves as savages, as uncivilized bumpkins who needed the magnificent white culture to come and take us out of ignorance. We had equality in our societies, with equal rights for men women and children, as well as homosexuals. Murder, rape and crimes of that nature were incredibly rare in our societies, as were crimes against children. We looked after our sick and our elderly and poverty was almost non existent. This is why when an educated Indian hears a white person telling us about how much better off we are, we sort of chuckle in a sad, wry way. Our history was pretty much hidden the past 100 years, I have lost track of how many times a white person has said “ I had no idea” when I tell them that the Pass system in Canada was really only abolished in the 1960’s. They look at me funny when I tell them that you could literally kill an Indian and not even go to court well into the 1930’s, that Metis people were not allowed to have firearms until after ww1, and that Indians are treated more as wards of the state than as true citizens of Canada. None of these things I learned in school, not even in Native studies in University. All of these things I learned from elders and from study on my own.

There is a very real push to maintain a colonialist narrative to history and to ensure that indigenous peoples are not allowed to see things that should be obvious. Almost nobody in Canada knows that the Metis actually followed the rule of law. When we declared our state, it was valid under international law, and when the Canadian government sent the RCMP to attack us, it was actually not only an act of war, but a criminal one. You will never see this in a mainstream history book – it doesn’t fit the colonialist narrative, the one where only good things come from the colonialists. God forbid indigenous people ever accomplish anything.

That brings me to the history of Israel. I have actually been told by a very intelligent woman, who is actually a heroine of mine, that the Jews did not fight a war of independence against the British, that the Israeli war of independence was against the Arabs. I was somewhat shaken because this woman is very intelligent and very educated. Now if I had only read the mainstream sources, written almost entirely by old white British men, I would probably have agreed with her. If I had only ever studied this conflict in school, I would definitely have agreed with her. But I have spent half my life reading non-mainstream sources – and I am not talking about garbage like Edward Said who bases his entire foundation on false narratives – but on multiple historians including Arabs.

There is a very real push to deny the history and almost the very existence of the Jewish people. It would be laughable if it was not so accepted by so many. Lets talk about a few of these myths that seem innocuous but in fact are so absolutely offensive and dangerous.

Myth One: Israel was created by the colonialists
The truth is that the Jews had to fight tooth and nail for their ancestral lands. While the British opened the door with the San Remo accords, and then the Balfour Declaration, the subsequent partition plan and the Palestinian mandate handing over 75% of the promised land (sorry bad pun) to the Hashemite Arabs to create Jordan, showed pretty clearly that the British were not particularly helpful. When you look at the arms embargo that ended up being completely one-sided, the fact that the British armed and trained the Jordanian legion, and then limited Jewish immigration while encouraging Arab immigration, gives you a very different picture.

It’s rather amusing to me that the same people who claim that the British created Israel, are the same ones who bring up the King David hotel bombing as proof of how bad the Jews are. First, the King David was the centre of the OCCUPATIONAL BRITISH GOVERNMENT. More importantly, they never ask why the Jews would be fighting against the people who were supposedly creating the Jewish nation. It’s a perfect example of why we need to not just listen to the colonialist narrative. They of course want us to believe that without colonialist aid, the Jews would have failed, when in fact the Jews were fighting the colonialists. Feel free to verify this – the British don’t like to admit it but the facts are all there for anyone who wants to actually dig.

Myth Two: Israel IS the colonialist
Now this one is by far the dumbest one. Anyone capable of looking at a map, of reading the Bible or Koran, of reading at a 4th grade level, should be able to see that the Jews come from this place.

“The Jews come from Judeah, the Arabs come from Arabia” is something I am fond of saying to people who argue this idiocy. It’s not exactly rocket science, yet you will have people tell you that the Jews are white Europeans. The genetics show clearly that Ashkenazi jews carry a majority of Middle Eastern blood. The archaeology shows clearly that there was a Jewish presence in the land over 3 thousand years ago. The Bible and Koran show clearly that the Jews were the dominant majority for most of the land’s historical existence. The places have a majority of JEWISH names, except in certain cases where they have colonizer names that have been Arabized, like Neapolis which became Nablus because Arabs cannot say the P sound, (the city is actually called Schechem).

When I was a little kid in sunday school, I read about Hebron, the biblical capital of King David, and of Shiloh where the Jews built the first temple to honor God. These are things that the Arabs cannot gainsay, but they try. The Temple Mount is the site of the Temple, yet the Arabs feel that by desecrating it and building a mosque over the top of it, it suddenly becomes an Arab holy place. No indigenous person would ever accept that line of reasoning.

Judaism itself shows very clearly that the Jews are indigenous. If they were not, their sacred places would be somewhere else, their religious holidays that are based on the seasons would be at different times, their very traditions would be different. The Jews are indigenous, the evidence is overwhelming. The Colonialist world is perfectly ok with everyone seeing Israel as a colonialist project, because frankly if one indigenous people regains control of their ancestral lands, might not another? What if indigenous people started seeing Israel for what it is – an example to indigenous people everywhere of what is possible even for a people who just underwent the worst genocide in modern history, a people who should have been too broken and damaged to ever have had a hope to regain their lands, yet who not only did so, but after regaining it, made it thrive again. If the Jews could do that, is there any reason that Native Canadians couldn’t achieve self determination? The Maori? The Australian indigenous? What if we all started working together? Inconceivable I know, at least to colonizers.

Myth three: Without support from the West, Israel would never have survived
This one is actually kind of funny, because without San Remo we may not have seen open Zionism, but other than that, this is a myth. Let me explain why.

First, the West did next to nothing to aid the creation of Israel. In fact, they did everything to hinder it.

The first and only early support came from somewhere very unexpected – Czechoslovakia! And in an even greater irony, much of the equipment sent to Israel was of German design. It set up one of the ultimate ironies when Jews flying german designed Messerschmidt 109s fought against Arabs flying British designed spitfires. The British and French actually supplied weapons and material to the Arabs while maintaining an embargo against the Jews. America also maintained the embargo, although many American and Canadian Jews sent money and some even went to fight for the nascent Israeli state. we are sold this narrative because we cannot ever be allowed to see indigenous people succeeding without colonialist assistance. That would be catastrophic to the colonialist narrative that nothing good ever happens without their assistance.

Myth four: The Jews massacred the Arabs (“the G word” Genocide)
This one is super easy to debunk simply by looking at the statistics. In over 67 years of conflict, less than 45,000 Arabs have been killed. Now that number still sounds large until you put it in perspective – this was after three major wars and four shooting conflicts. In less than 5 years in Syria, over 250,000 people have been killed, and in Iraq, over 200,000 have died since the Americans invaded. When looked at in context, it becomes clear that the Jews have either exercised great restraint, or they are bad at war – given that they have won every major conflict I think its obvious which it is. This one is just sheer numbers and is not really debatable. Their population has grown sixfold. ‘Nuff said.

Myth five: The Jews oppress the Arabs with THOUSANDS OF CHECKPOINTS and the MASSIVE WALL
I believe there are 13 checkpoints and the “massive wall” is actually a fence for about 90% of its length. It is only a wall in certain areas to prevent snipers. The truth is that the barrier has worked – the number of killings dropped dramatically, the barrier follows a path determined to maximize its effectiveness and it protects the people of Israel from even more random attacks. It may seem that its oppressive but unfortunately the Arabs have yet to demonstrate that they can be trusted not to kill Jews.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gauss]

israel will really have to follow a more austere foreign policy in the asia dominated world of the future. no candy for israel after the decline of the west.

 

[Dubious]

fight tooth and nail for their ancestral lands.

1) crying to Britain with a movie is not fight foot and nail
2) Ancestral land? Everyone's ancestor came from Africa....the rest of the land has been ruled by many....each population replaced with a new one setting land....In this case then American Indians should claim their land from the whites so should the Aborigines!

What about all of these poeple:

Myth Two: Israel IS the colonialist

Jews come from this place? Yet they left it to go to Europe to be chased out and cried for a land only to chase out those who stayed there

And not a single "my land" claimer can have even claim grandfather born in Palestine! Why coz they were too busy outside Israel while Palestinians were on that land for centuries even the bible claims so!

And if you want to claim it theirs...then why does god say I gift the land to you? Meaning it wasnt yours! And the you is Bani Yaqub not the Whites who are called to invade Palestine!

Myth three: Without support from the West, Israel would never have survived

THAT IS HISTORICAL FACT!

Myth four: The Jews massacred the Arabs (“the G word” Genocide)

we see it in the news....and they justify it...even their ministers claim that Palestinians babies are evil! Talk about mental health problems!

Myth five: The Jews oppress the Arabs with THOUSANDS OF CHECKPOINTS and the MASSIVE WALL
I believe there are 13 checkpoints and the “massive wall” is actually a fence for about 90% of its length. It is only a wall in certain areas to prevent snipers. The truth is that the barrier has worked – the number of killings dropped dramatically, the barrier follows a path determined to maximize its effectiveness and it protects the people of Israel from even more random attacks. It may seem that its oppressive but unfortunately the Arabs have yet to demonstrate that they can be trusted not to kill Jews.

And you at least admit!

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Israel belongs to Jews. Muslims are invaders. They should return from where they came.

Are you a dumb kid? Muslims invaded the Byzantines not the Jews; when Jews were persecuted and died by the hundred of thousands in Europe, they were welcomed with open arms in the Islamic world. Muslim Armies were in charge of protecting Jews during the Crusades. Like all non-Muslims Jews had to pay the Jizya tax, a tax similar to Zakat which is ONLY Muslims have to pay. Difference was, Jizya went to state and Zakat went to charity. Jews prospered under Muslim rule and even fought against the crusaders at some times along side with the Muslims.

Majority of the Jews, converted to Islam and probably outnumber the Jews. Do those "Muslim" jews also have a claim over Israel as an Islamic country?

 

[Total Destruction]

Myth One: Israel was created by the colonialists

that's not a myth , that's true ..the Arms sent to the Egyptian Army By the British were Corrupted during 1948 war , the bombings accidents made in Egypt by Jews (most of them were Greeks , Italians and Armenians) to help to destroy the Egyptian Economy , haven't you read the fourth condition and text of Council of the League of United Nations after Balfour Declaration ? ok here it is .. Article IV (Recognizes the Jewish Agency, a public body to provide advice to Palestine area management and cooperation with them in the economical and social affairs that may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the good of the Jewish population in Palestine area.) Cooperation with Britian.

Myth Two: Israel IS the colonialist


Again not a myth , Israelis came from Arab peninsula , Lived in Egypt During the Rule of King Joseph and his father Jacob , creating the people of Israel .. till the era of Moses and Pharaoh (which some people refer to him as king Ramses the second , i actually think he is Sheshnak or Ramses' son Mernpetah)... After that , Israelis were lost in desert for many years till they finally entered Palestine (that doesn't make them the true owners of the land)...Quran didn't say anything related to (Israelis true owners of the land) sorry to destroy your false claims.

Myth three: Without support from the West, Israel would never have survived

That's actually not a myth too haha , 1956 France with England and Israel trying to invade Egypt ... 1973 Arms supplies to Israel from U.S from the Route of Portugal..even the soviets controlled Abdel Nasser and prevented him from launching a war (maybe they benefited from this situation , no war no peace) untill sadat came to power and kicked soviets out.

Myth four: The Jews massacred the Arabs

OOOOOOH COME ON , LOL .. look at sabra and shatila .. ok ok just look at GAZA.

Myth five: The Jews oppress the Arabs with THOUSANDS OF CHECKPOINTS and the MASSIVE WALL

hahaha , the dude who wrote the article is HIIIIIGH .. you people even treat your black Ethiopians jews very bad hahaha

 

[Solomon2]

1) crying to Britain with a movie is not fight foot and nail -

Umm, how old are you, exactly?

2) Ancestral land? Everyone's ancestor came from Africa....the rest of the land has been ruled by many....each population replaced with a new one setting land....In this case then American Indians should claim their land from the whites so should the Aborigines!

You might want to read more of Mr. Bellarose's columns for his opinon on that.

Jews come from this place? Yet they left it to go to Europe to be chased out and cried for a land only to chase out those who stayed there

Jews conquered by the Romans, from the relief on Trajan's column in Rome. Most of these Jews were eventually expelled and dispersed throughout the Empire.

And not a single "my land" claimer can have even claim grandfather born in Palestine! Why coz they were too busy outside Israel while Palestinians were on that land for centuries even the bible claims so!

How old are you again?

And if you want to claim it theirs...then why does god say I gift the land to you? Meaning it wasnt yours! And the you is Bani Yaqub not the Whites who are called to invade Palestine! THAT IS HISTORICAL FACT!

You're picking your facts from what source, exactly?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Solomon2

I am for Isreal being recognized by Pakistan. This is based on the realpolitics rather than than any moral edifice.

The Isreal/Palestine thing can be cut and sliced many ways but for simplicity everything can be reduced to one question?

How many generations down the road does a claim on land remain valid?

I accept that there were a people who were thrown out by Romans nearly two thousand years ago. The question is 60 generations down are those claims valid? Those Jews today must carry tiny fragment of genetic inheritance from 2,000 years ago.Jews from Poland carry more Polish genes than the ancestors.

If you accept that even a drop of Jewish ancestory entitles you to a claim from 2,000 years ago that then begs the question what about the relatively "fresh claims" of Aboriginal Australians, Native Americans etc?

This contradiction has never been explained to me. Perhaps you could?

 

[gangsta_rap]

Israel belongs to Jews. Muslims are invaders. They should return from where they came.

Idiot, the people indigenous to palestine/judea were at one point caananites/israelites. Later on they became Christians, then they became arabic speaking muslims and now they are today's Palestinians. They have absolutely nothing to do with Russians who emigrated in the 30s and 40s. This is the land where they lived and their ancestors lived.

The only jews who can legitimately say that the land "belongs" to them are mizrahi jews whose grandparents/ancestors lived in Palestine, but they are too few to make such a claim for all israelis.

I see Solomon's upping the hasbara these days. Getting ready for the next uprising I suppose.

 

[Solomon2]

The Isreal/Palestine thing can be cut and sliced many ways but for simplicity everything can be reduced to one question?

How many generations down the road does a claim on land remain valid?

You don't even have to look at it that way: large amounts of The Land were purchased by Jews from Arabs since the nineteenth century, then there's land gained by sovereign grant (Sevres and the Mandate), and finally land abandoned by Arabs who fled under laws little different from those of Britain itself.

No, the question for Zionists was, under what condition could Jewish landowners claim self-determination and (if necessary) sovereignty? The answer decided was that could only be in the Jews' ancestral homeland of Zion itself.

@Solomon2

I am for Isreal being recognized by Pakistan. This is based on the realpolitics rather than than any moral edifice.

In that case Pakistan would miss out on the great moral benefits that would accrue from acknowledging the "moral edifice", as you put it.

If you accept that even a drop of Jewish ancestory entitles you to a claim from 2,000 years ago that then begs the question what about the relatively "fresh claims" of Aboriginal Australians, Native Americans etc?

You might want to read more of Mr. Bellarose's opinions on this matter.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You don't even have to look at it that way: large amounts of The Land were purchased by Jews from Arabs since the nineteenth century, then there's land gained by sovereign grant (Sevres and the Mandate), and finally land abandoned by Arabs who fled under laws little different from those of Britain itself.

No, the question for Zionists was, under what condition could Jewish landowners claim self-determination and (if necessary) sovereignty? The answer decided was that could only be in the Jews' ancestral homeland of Zion itself.

I am sorry but I have to break of this thread. Apparently some Indian's here think being 50 year old, divorced man who ( allegedly ) has issue with penis size is to be used as a threat against myself in some ridicalous attempt to gag me.

And yes we, Pakistan are the loser. No doubt about it. If I was in charge of Pakistan I would recognize Isreal despite my personal feelings based on the needs of the country.

 

[Solomon2]

The only jews who can legitimately say that the land "belongs" to them are mizrahi jews whose grandparents/ancestors lived in Palestine, but they are too few to make such a claim for all israelis.

Really? And Jews who purchased land from Arabs mean nothing? Or who were driven out of Arab lands by dictators grabbing loot to reward their followers, no accounting should be made for that at all? And Mizrahi Jews can be murdered and driven out anyway because "they are too few to make such a claim for all Israelis?"

(After WWI the rule became "no more empires": captive nationalities of the defeated Ottoman and German Empires were to be separated into nation-states. The terms of Sevres and the Mandate were clear enough: the Jews would be encouraged to "closely settle" in the area of the Palestine Mandate and the Arabs would have their political entities and both would respect each other's civil and property rights throughout. This the Jews did (Israel remains ~20% Arab, those remaining after '48 retaining their property) and the Arabs did not.)

 

[Providence]

@Solomon2 Brother could you elaborate on what happened to jews in 1948 and in 1961 ? Jist should suffice. @flamer84 was talking about how jews were made to run towards seas by the local arabs there in '48. Is there any validity to it ?

TIA !

 

[CHI RULES]

Despite difference of opinion even abt history of Israel between majority Muslims and Jews, one should see what is happening now.in Palestine even analysing it as a human being what is happening there now. Palestine people are living in hell children dying in streets and Israeli Ministers giving hate speeches against Palestinians.

How u explain Israeli attacks in other Muslim countries especially it's efforts to sabotage Pak Atomic program. It's a shame that even some jews who had some humanity left in them were on flotilla attacked by Israelis.

The problems still can be solved if some breathing space is given to Palestinians and they are treated as humans.
I can bet that if Israel takes one positive step, the Muslims will take two steps.
It is worthless to discuss past.

 

[Dubious]

Umm, how old are you, exactly?

Cant reply? You shouldnt quote

You might want to read more of Mr. Bellarose's columns for his opinon on that.

Why not put it up?

Jews conquered by the Romans, from the relief on Trajan's column in Rome. Most of these Jews were eventually expelled and dispersed throughout the Empire.

Yes but did they return RIGHT after the fall of the Roman empire? No many decided to settle and prosper in Germany pre- Hitler, no?
Some are not even Bani Yaqub! So god didnt promise them and they dont even belong to the area....

Be careful, those who are using you as pawns to legitimize their claim by population and kill their Arab cousins might turn on you next....After all, you arent even their cousin if you arent even Semite!

How old are you again?

Again no answer...I thought so

You're picking your facts from what source, exactly?

A variety of historical facts and genetic tests which put present day Ashkenazi Jews' origin as non Semitic