French Defence Minister To Push For Early Decision on Rafale MMRCA

[sancho]

hahaha, sir you do make me chuckle with your SSK and LUH (and NLUH) hang up! We have discussed this in the past and I think we both know where the other stands on this.

As for your comments on the Rafale being "too big to fail" I think this is very true now.

The point is not where we stand, but what the reality is and the fact that the MoD did not what the 3 chiefs wanted or asked the PM or DM for. That simply is undeniable.

 

[Koovie]

I dont even know why French are allowing India to assemble such a high tech aircraft. Its a deal for only 126 aircraft. France would be better off selling these aircraft somewhere else. Let India fly their MiG-21.

Stop crying and get over it.

 

[axisofevil]

Rafale a shitty plane that has never been exported to any other country nor has seen any REAL action! The French under Sarkozy (when deal was made) are notoriously corrupt. EFT was declared the better plane but Rafale was selected due to price. Now that price advantage is out the window.

 

[El Weirdo]

Rafale a shitty plane that has never been exported to any other country nor has seen any REAL action! The French under Sarkozy (when deal was made) are notoriously corrupt. EFT was declared the better plane but Rafale was selected due to price. Now that price advantage is out the window.

E.F. might have been a good option if it were developed by a single pro-india country , but as it is a consortium of not 2 , not 3 but 4 countries (Britain , Germany , Italy , Spain).. imagine if India has a problem with any one of the country , e.g. Italian Marines saga , albeit minor , but still a chance , and they refuse to supply India with parts during an emergency ???
and the French are reliable partners , they supplied us in the past , so no risk there.
Hope this helps!!

 

[axisofevil]

E.F. might have been a good option if it were developed by a single pro-india country , but as it is a consortium of not 2 , not 3 but 4 countries (Britain , Germany , Italy , Spain).. imagine if India has a problem with any one of the country , e.g. Italian Marines saga , albeit minor , but still a chance , and they refuse to supply India with parts during an emergency ???
and the French are reliable partners , they supplied us in the past , so no risk there.
Hope this helps!!

Yea I heave heard this argument before but I tend to see it differently. Create fullproof contracts that make it inherently clear that any refusals in emergencies will allow India to break all patents and produce the aircraft. Also, this concern was addressed by these nations that would allow India to manufacture the plane. India would be a great help in driving production costs down.

 

[mehboobkz]

I dont even know why French are allowing India to assemble such a high tech aircraft. Its a deal for only 126 aircraft. France would be better off selling these aircraft somewhere else. Let India fly their MiG-21.

Same yard stick be applied to Pakistan who have F-16s and are looking for J-31

 

[El Weirdo]

Yea I heave heard this argument before but I tend to see it differently. Create fullproof contracts that make it inherently clear that any refusals in emergencies will allow India to break all patents and produce the aircraft. Also, this concern was addressed by these nations that would allow India to manufacture the plane. India would be a great help in driving production costs down.

Ok , U said "Any refuals in Emergencies will allow India to break all patents and prosuce the Aircraft"
Firstly , if making 4++ Aircraft was that easy as breaking patents and JUST producing it why is India struggling with Tejas? India just dont have the know how of producing decent enough engines.
Secondly , are you saying during an emergency IF the 4 nations dont give India spares India should diverge Her efforts in making spares or deal with the emergency at hand?

(Can you please share some link that says the above stated nations addressed the concern? I will be much greatful.)

 

[axisofevil]

Ok , U said "Any refuals in Emergencies will allow India to break all patents and prosuce the Aircraft"
Firstly , if making 4++ Aircraft was that easy as breaking patents and JUST producing it why is India struggling with Tejas? India just dont have the know how of producing decent enough engines.
Secondly , are you saying during an emergency IF the 4 nations dont give India spares India should diverge Her efforts in making spares or deal with the emergency at hand?

(Can you please share some link that says the above stated nations addressed the concern? I will be much greatful.)

Listen, I just gave a simple example. There are ways to keep our potential partners in check. If we did sign up for for the EFT, Im sure we could lay out our concerns before hand and allow them to ensure a process where we are not held hostage. We have ruled them out without looking at how to resolve th situation in a manner that addresses our concerns. If I remember correctly, I think it was Germany that was open to shifting production facilities to India. I read off this site.

 

[Donatello]

So essentially, The whole delay is with the French saying "We are not responsible if you mess up while making it at home and end up with screens that shut off on their own or aircraft that eject pilots whenever they feel like it".

French are prudent, considering HAL's reputation of late....why should Dassault be held responsible for screw ups at the customer end? If you are so concerned about quality, then buy off the shelf from France. That way you can squeeze them 100%.

 

[Abotani]

The French are kind of right.
They asked for the freedom to choose an Indian partner for production of Rafale in India. They wanted Reliance to be their Indian manufacturer.

The GoI on the other hand wants HAL to be the production partner.

So French are saying - either you let us choose who we think is best to manufacture the product in India and take full responsibility or you choose and we take limited responsibility for the end result.

I agree that the french are rightly concerned about India's lack of manufacturing sophistication.But Reliance?
What experience,credibility etc etc does reliance have to execute a state of the art 4.5 gen combat MR aircraft like the rafale?
The decision to partner with Reliance seemed more like an attempt at reducing the MMRCA to a screwdriver assembly deal than an intensive TOT one as planned.

 

[cloud_9]

I dont even know why French are allowing India to assemble such a high tech aircraft. Its a deal for only 126 aircraft. France would be better off selling these aircraft somewhere else. Let India fly their MiG-21.

Pakistan should submit a counter bid at $21 Billion and block the purchase to India.....Oh wait!That's like a few years of your defence budget or half of your government budget for a financial year.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Pakistan should submit a counter bid at $21 Billion and block the purchase to India.....Oh wait!That's like a few years of your defence budget or half of your government budget for a financial year.

Not few years, they can come immediately but payments would take years.

 

[The Huskar]

Not few years, they can come immediately but payments would take years.

Of course, it is that easy.

 

[sathya]

Pakistan should submit a counter bid at $21 Billion and block the purchase to India.....Oh wait!That's like a few years of your defence budget or half of your government budget for a financial year.

Even we ARE paying it IN over 10 years time..

 

[sancho]

French are prudent, considering HAL's reputation of late....why should Dassault be held responsible for screw ups at the customer end?

Because delays of the licence production, based on failures or mistakes from Dassaults side, would be responsibility of Dassault, not HAL's. If China delays the delivery of parts, or provides you with wrong ToT for JF 17s licence production, you don't blame PAC either or?
Since we have experience with such problems in the MKI or Hawk licence production, keeping Dassault committed to the whole production is a logical move, but this has nothing to do with responsibility as mentioned earlier.