French Defence Minister To Push For Early Decision on Rafale MMRCA

[sancho]

You are agreeing that delays have occurred form India's side as well yet denial cap is on.

There were no delays from the Indian side in the last 2 years, we had our part during the evaluation stage, but that has nothing to do with the delays after the selection of Rafale.

 

[sancho]

IMHO, Govt is not keen on the deal. They are just buying time.
I read push for FGFA on similar line.

The gov might not keen on Rafale, since it's not their deal nor their selected fighter, but they they are committed to get the most out of the deal, since that was and is the prime aim of the tender. So demanding as much as possible and compromising with a resonable win for India is the point, be it for the Rafale procurement or the FGFA joint development. Both fighters however have nothing to do with each other and will be procured both to serve different aims and purposes.

 

[SrNair]

The French are kind of right.
They asked for the freedom to choose an Indian partner for production of Rafale in India. They wanted Reliance to be their Indian manufacturer.

The GoI on the other hand wants HAL to be the production partner.

So French are saying - either you let us choose who we think is best to manufacture the product in India and take full responsibility or you choose and we take limited responsibility for the end result.

HAL is a behemoth.And Reliance is still not in a position to take responsibility of a huge aerospace program like Dassault Rafale.

 

[he-man]

So essentially, The whole delay is with the French saying "We are not responsible if you mess up while making it at home and end up with screens that shut off on their own or aircraft that eject pilots whenever they feel like it".

The whole delay is due to weak economy as we are at 5.5% down from 9% when the rfp was given out.Plus we need to commit money to pakfa soon enough too ,about 5.5 billion$,not to mention mlu for su-30 to super standard and indigenous mk1 and mk2(tejas)

Rest all is bullshit.

 

[he-man]

The gov might not keen on Rafale, since it's not their deal nor their selected fighter, but they they are committed to get the most out of the deal, since that was and is the prime aim of the tender. So demanding as much as possible and compromising with a resonable win for India is the point, be it for the Rafale procurement or the FGFA joint development. Both fighters however have nothing to do with each other and will be procured both to serve different aims and purposes.

They serve same purpose and fgfa is the absolute necessity that cannot be ignored at all.RAfale deal even if cancelled will have little effect as we can just start another line of mki's but point is if super mki is gonna cost same as rafale than why not get rafale only to begin with as no matter what we do it will not match rafale in electronics except maybe a bigger and more powerful radar.

 

[airmarshal]

The major disagreement is Dassault’s reluctance to accept responsibility for the 108 aircrafts that are to be built by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) regarding the price and work sharing.

I dont even know why French are allowing India to assemble such a high tech aircraft. Its a deal for only 126 aircraft. France would be better off selling these aircraft somewhere else. Let India fly their MiG-21.

 

[ni8mare]

I dont even know why French are allowing India to assemble such a high tech aircraft. Its a deal for only 126 aircraft. France would be better off selling these aircraft somewhere else. Let India fly their MiG-21.

says a pakistani

 

[sancho]

They serve same purpose

No they don't! Operationally, Rafale is aimed on different tasks than heavy class fighters. Only because we can buy more MKIs, doesn't mean it would be good to use such a big and operationally costly fighter in any mission. In fact it's even better to have Rafale taking over some of MKIs roles, to reduce costs and not be too dependent on a single fighter. FGFAs aim is to make full use of the stealth advantage, not to use it in basic air defence or CAS roles, so there is no relation to the Rafale there.
The prime aim of MMRCA however is the industrial benefit we aim on in return for the money we spend. The FGFA industrial benefit is not aimed of offset, but on joint ownership and implementing own requirements into the development. Again, no relation between both procurements.
We need both fighters and both projects for different operational and industrial benefits and we will try to get the most out of both through the current negotiations.

 

[he-man]

No they don't! Operationally, Rafale is aimed on different tasks than heavy class fighters. Only because we can buy more MKIs, doesn't mean it would be good to use such a big and operationally costly fighter in any mission. In fact it's even better to have Rafale taking over some of MKIs roles, to reduce costs and not be too dependent on a single fighter. FGFAs aim is to make full use of the stealth advantage, not to use it in basic air defence or CAS roles, so there is no relation to the Rafale there.
The prime aim of MMRCA however is the industrial benefit we aim on in return for the money we spend. The FGFA industrial benefit is not aimed of offset, but on joint ownership and implementing own requirements into the development. Again, no relation between both procurements.
We need both fighters and both projects for different operational and industrial benefits and we will try to get the most out of both through the current negotiations.

When HAL is the lead agency there will be no benefits to any private player.

I was commenting based on 5% growth rate we are having,,its just stupidity to be inducting 3 different platforms at the same time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IMHO, Govt is not keen on the deal. They are just buying time.
I read push for FGFA on similar line.

Nonsense. The GoI and new Defence Minister have said they will listen to the needs of thew services and given successive ACMs of the IAF have insisted on the need for the Rafale there is no way the GoI is not pushing ahead with the Rafale deal.

 

[sancho]

Nonsense. The GoI and new Defence Minister have said they will listen to the needs of thew services and given successive ACMs of the IAF have insisted on the need for the Rafale there is no way the GoI is not pushing ahead with the Rafale deal.

Well, they have listened to the 3 Chiefs before and the result was not that good with srapping and delaying LUH and SSK procurements. But I also don't think that the decision on Rafale will take too long anymore, it's simply too big to fail now and even if the NDA likes the Rafale or not, they won't back out of it anymore.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The whole delay is due to weak economy as we are at 5.5% down from 9% when the rfp was given out.Plus we need to commit money to pakfa soon enough too ,about 5.5 billion$,not to mention mlu for su-30 to super standard and indigenous mk1 and mk2(tejas)

Rest all is bullshit.

The 5.5% is a bit of a red herring sir, this is temporary, within 3 years India will be back to 7-8% GDP growth. GDP growth is inherently a systematic risk and fluctuates.

They serve same purpose and fgfa is the absolute necessity that cannot be ignored at all.RAfale deal even if cancelled will have little effect as we can just start another line of mki's but point is if super mki is gonna cost same as rafale than why not get rafale only to begin with as no matter what we do it will not match rafale in electronics except maybe a bigger and more powerful radar.

Neither the MKI nor LCA can fill the gap of the Rafale in the IAF. If you tried to do so with LCAs you would get an extremely top heavy af and one with a limited capability aside from the high end, if you went to fill the entire 200 or so requirement of Rafales (option for 63 will be exercised) with MKIs you'd get an AF who couldn't afford to fly the vast majority of its fleet (the MKI costs about twice as much to fly per hour as the Rafale, needs overhauls more regularly, is more expensive to maintain and is less maintainable).

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well, they have listened to the 3 Chiefs before and the result was not that good with srapping and delaying LUH and SSK procurements. But I also don't think that the decision on Rafale will take too long anymore, it's simply too big to fail now and even if the NDA likes the Rafale or not, they won't back out of it anymore.

hahaha, sir you do make me chuckle with your SSK and LUH (and NLUH) hang up! We have discussed this in the past and I think we both know where the other stands on this.

As for your comments on the Rafale being "too big to fail" I think this is very true now.

 

[Echo_419]

The gov might not keen on Rafale, since it's not their deal nor their selected fighter, but they they are committed to get the most out of the deal, since that was and is the prime aim of the tender. So demanding as much as possible and compromising with a resonable win for India is the point, be it for the Rafale procurement or the FGFA joint development. Both fighters however have nothing to do with each other and will be procured both to serve different aims and purposes.

Let's hope this deal is closed fast

 

[he-man]

The 5.5% is a bit of a red herring sir, this is temporary, within 3 years India will be back to 7-8% GDP growth. GDP growth is inherently a systematic risk and fluctuates.

Neither the MKI nor LCA can fill the gap of the Rafale in the IAF. If you tried to do so with LCAs you would get an extremely top heavy af and one with a limited capability aside from the high end, if you went to fill the entire 200 or so requirement of Rafales (option for 63 will be exercised) with MKIs you'd get an AF who couldn't afford to fly the vast majority of its fleet (the MKI costs about twice as much to fly per hour as the Rafale, needs overhauls more regularly, is more expensive to maintain and is less maintainable).

That holds true if u keep on using the same stupis al-31f engine.But if the upgrade can happen it will not cost as much to operate.

As for economy i am just hoping for the best.