Did Pakistan Cede the Territory of Shaksgam to China?

[arjunk]

Someone fix Wikipedia with this, the amount of residents of the gangeteic lands who use Wikipedia as a source like its Quran will get a good slap on their face.

 

[khail007]

The point of this thread to expose the lie or fallacy that India has feed to its people

The fallacy is that Pakistan gave up land of erstwhile Kashmir state that was under its control to China without utter regard or consultation with people of Kashmir hence Pakistani claims on Kashmir shouldn't be taken seriously

This is nothing but a lie and that is the point of this thread basically

In reference to Kashmir, Indian government feeds it people only the lies and fallacy and that is also true in international relation.
So in brief just say India and we know that lies and fallacy is there - no arguments needed to explain.

 

[beijingwalker]

Border disputes don't always have to be solved by wars.

 

[Rafi]

Border disputes don't always have to be solved by wars.

You have to be reasonable like China and Pakistan and not unreasonable like india

 

[Joe Shearer]

Border disputes don't always have to be solved by wars.

Quite right.

Will you help me with an experiment? Hold out your right hand and clap with it, and send me a recording.

Legally, demarcation agreements by the British supersede anything the local rulers (Maharaja's etc) accepted, given that the British were the primary authority in British India. The point being made here is that the Johnson Line, which India & the Maharaja accepted is superseded by the McDonald line, which was the official demarcation of the border in this region between British India and China.

India can claim Aksai Chin all it wants, but that should be treated separately from the J&K dispute with Pakistan.

An excellent article, but the subsequent comments took the gloss off it - for me.

I think the disagreement arises on how both parties view the transaction.

India considers the whole of Jammu & Kashmir as its own, based on the claims of the erstwhile Raja, who acceded to India. The Raja claimed the borders as depicted by current state of J&K in India, even though he never actually held possession or control of certain territories, including Shaksgam Valley and Aksai Chin.

Pakistan on the other hand, made no such claim. For it, the northern areas ended at the claim of the Mir of Hunza valley. If I recall correctly, the Shaksgam Valley was part of the claim of the Mir of Hunza but never officially demarcated with the Chinese, and therefore likely controlled by China.

Therefore, when Pakistan and China demarcated they border in the Northern Areas, the valley ended up with Pakistan.

Legally, demarcation agreements by the British supersede anything the local rulers (Maharaja's etc) accepted, given that the British were the primary authority in British India. The point being made here is that the Johnson Line, which India & the Maharaja accepted is superseded by the McDonald line, which was the official demarcation of the border in this region between British India and China.

India can claim Aksai Chin all it wants, but that should be treated separately from the J&K dispute with Pakistan.

You might recall that there was a brief war fought over some months in 1842, between Zorawar Singh on the one hand, initially, until his death, and the Tibetans. The war ended with the Treaty of Chushul. The British authority over these territories and over these rulers began several years later. Their decisions taken in ignorance of previous engagements and treaties can hardly be binding backwards in history for all time.

 

[Jugger]

This article states that Pakistan does not conform with the Johnson line hence she will cede other areas of Kashmir like aksai chin to China if it get suzerainty over all of Kashmir. This is fare enough..!
But if India gets suzerainty over all of Kashmir then by our own acceptance of Johnson line, we could assert ourselves to regain shaksgam valley.
Again fair enough...!

 

[Imran Khan]

if you talk nicely china is good country .

but if you bark like india they will have rods and sticks

 

[Mohsin A]

According to Brig. Samson, The Agreement between Pakistan & China included the giving and taking of land. Overall, Pakistan gained 50km. Watch from 10:10 onwards as what he says is extremely interesting!

 

[W.11]

China has border disputes with each and every nation bordering it, Pakistan solved the border dispute with china (great) but besides indians, there are many countries china still has not settled its land disputes esp, central asia.

secondly the OP assumes that johnson line had no legitimacy, this is a controversial subject, but then again junagarh was ceded to pakistan by its maharaja and yet india didn't accept that claim even though it uses the same principle to claim entire kashmir state including gilgit baltistan. Pakistan didn't claim junagarh back even though legally it ceded to pakistan.

it seems to appear even though china ''gave'' pakistan near 2000 km, the onus was always on china, it seems ayub khan nearly begged chinese to give certain areas to pakistan and rest hand over to china, as in the artic.le it is written that china agreed on merit to give certain areas to pakistan. onus was always on china and pakistan rightly calculated that doing panga with china was not a wise thing to do (even india cannot take panga with china, how could pakistan?). Pakistan handed over the lands to china and got back few of those areas and voted china in the UN for permanent membership, who got the better deal?

simple question is, if pakistan didn't accept johnson line, why it pleaded china to give certain areas on ''merit'' which didn't belong to pakistan in the first place?, it seems to suggest thse territories were gifted by china that werent legally pakistan's territory (argument used by OP), or the equation maybe turned, that pakistan gifted territories to china and got few of them back as compensation.

regards

 

[beijingwalker]

China has border disputes with each and every nation bordering it

China has 14 land neighors, the most in the world, India is the only nation which China has border issues with out of 14. So don't let ignorance get better of you.

Pakistan solved the border dispute with china (great) but besides indians, there are many countries china still has not settled its land disputes esp, central asia.

Which one in central Asia? Ignorance knows no boundaries.

 

[Tameem]

This article states that Pakistan does not conform with the Johnson line hence she will cede other areas of Kashmir like aksai chin to China if it get suzerainty over all of Kashmir. This is fare enough..!
But if India gets suzerainty over all of Kashmir then by our own acceptance of Johnson line, we could assert ourselves to regain shaksgam valley.
Again fair enough...!

You pretends like Pakistan did a grave mistake by not towing the fictional Johson line like India and thus loose a great region which India will enjoys in her life of hereafter...LOL.

In fact here lies the contrast differences of India and Pakistan as nation states more acutely.
By going with Johnson line (Which contrary to actual Hold Position of China and British India at that time and rightly superseded by Macmohan line correctly by British Indian Officials) India proves she believes in Lies, Cheats, False Bravado and Arrogance as long as it takes her to anywhere but reality. This False Bravado and False Arrogance are move visible and put to test in 2020 when India out-rightly denies any incursion by China despite it happens on her perceived Johnson line. While on the other hand a pragmatic Pakistan replies India in the same tone within 24 hours of its incursion in Pakistan held areas on 27 Feb, 2019 by targetting Indian held position and assets in the Air. Bcz Pakistan Believes not in False bravado and arrogance but pragmatism and reality, which gaves him enough courage to stand against the bully 7 times larger of itself.

 

[W.11]

China has 14 land neighors, the most in the world, India is the only nation which China has border issues with out of 14. So don't let ignorance get better of you.


Which one in central Asia? Ignorance knows no boundaries.

4:30 onwards

regards

You pretends like Pakistan did a grave mistake by not towing the fictional Johson line like India and thus loose a great region which India will enjoys in her life of hereafter...LOL.

In fact here lies the contrast differences of India and Pakistan as nation states more acutely.
By going with Johnson line (Which contrary to actual Hold Position of China and British India at that time and rightly superseded by Macmohan line correctly by British Indian Officials) India proves she believes in Lies, Cheats, False Bravado and Arrogance as long as it takes her to anywhere but reality. This False Bravado and False Arrogance are move visible and put to test in 2020 when India out-rightly denies any incursion by China despite it happens on her perceived Johnson line. While on the other hand a pragmatic Pakistan replies India in the same tone within 24 hours of its incursion in Pakistan held areas on 27 Feb, 2019 by targetting Indian held position and assets in the Air. Bcz Pakistan Believes not in False bravado and arrogance but pragmatism and reality, which gaves him enough courage to stand against the bully 7 times larger of itself.

what china claim are we talking about here in the first place? xinjiang came under foreign manchurean qing rule which was not even chinese, when the line was drawn, china didn't even have any control on the lands it claims as its own, when the line was drawn even then manchurean qing china was so busy, it had no time to settle border regions on its west, now china claims a land, and pakistan and other weak countries should be obliged to give it to the rightful owner.

Pakistanis are pretending here that china had all the universal rights of shaksam valley and the rests of the chinese claims.

regards

 

[beijingwalker]

xinjiang came under foreign manchurean qing rule which was not even chinese

If Qing was not Chinese, what country did they belong to? Britain?

The video can't play, just a simple question, which central Asian countries have border disputes with China?

when the line was drawn, china didn't even have any control on the lands it claims as its own, when the line was drawn even then manchurean qing china was so busy, it had no time to settle border regions on its west, now china claims a land

Ignorance has no boundaries..


After Qing dynasty's fall and before 1949, Xinjiang was under the rule of the Republic of China
Kuomintang_Party_in_Xinjiang_1942
The Chinese charaters in the photos mean " Love the country, loyal to the party (KMT Chinese nationalist party)"

US state department documentary, 1944. The Battle of China

 

[W.11]

Nepal was also part of china?

regards

 

[beijingwalker]

Nepal was also part of china?

regards

It's US state department map, it's not very clearly defined in every small section, go to them for clarification,but Mongolia was part of China back then.