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Delhi & Tokyo may ink pact for India’s first Bullet Train during Shinzo Abe’s visit

We do not know that. I would wait and watch. At the end of the day, if they are unable to provide the same at a competitive price, they will suffer.

The total air traffic between the two cities is round 1.6 lacs a month. Thats round 5,000 a day. Now this would never be more than 5% of overall traffic. So your 1 lac is not way off the mark. Also, last I heard the cost was to be around 2,800. So your 6000 is probably return, which is a very good deal.
Here 'they' means we. If this thing is going to cost what a flight will cost, then we should also not expect a lakh people to travel on it. I am fine with public infrastructure projects getting constructed at breakeven or even a little less than break even, if millions are going to use it. But this thing, I am afraid is not that. We are not learning from other's lessons here. If we subsidize some regular passengers with an infrastructure project then it is fine. But subsidizing high cost railway, that too at a risky price should have been debated. Sadly we would have more discussion about stupid remarks by politicians than real issues like this in India.

Even USA is still considering whether high speed rail is profitable. Chinas bullet trains are said to be unprofitable for a long time now. And they have crushed their bleeding airlines more. Indian airline industry has only one profitable low-cost airline(I have no sympathy for them though). But my point is instead of spending money on creating alternatives for high cost travel, we can spend on projects targeting more number of people.
 
I hope the track will be sealed from both sides. So many people just hit by cars in Indian highways. Now a train with 320 km/hr speed. :(
 
Here 'they' means we. If this thing is going to cost what a flight will cost, then we should also not expect a lakh people to travel on it. I am fine with public infrastructure projects getting constructed at breakeven or even a little less than break even, if millions are going to use it. But this thing, I am afraid is not that. We are not learning from other's lessons here. If we subsidize some regular passengers with an infrastructure project then it is fine. But subsidizing high cost railway, that too at a risky price should have been debated. Sadly we would have more discussion about stupid remarks by politicians than real issues like this in India.

Even USA is still considering whether high speed rail is profitable. Chinas bullet trains are said to be unprofitable for a long time now. And they have crushed their bleeding airlines more. Indian airline industry has only one profitable low-cost airline(I have no sympathy for them though). But my point is instead of spending money on creating alternatives for high cost travel, we can spend on projects targeting more number of people.

You are again missing the Forest for the Trees.

IT IS NOT OUR MONEY. Its Japanese Money.

We are NOT investing our own money. The Japanese are investing their Own money in India just to make sure we will buy their Trains.

This money will not be available for anything else.

But what it WILL do is FREE UP Money of the govt. for other areas of investment like mass public transport.

So the whole question of feasibility does not arise since ITS NOT OUR MONEY. What part of this do you not understand ?

The only worry should be will the Bullet Train become Feasible in 50 Years ? Cuz THAT is when we have to pay them back.

Now imagine the multiplier effect this money will have on the economy. The property prices, the autorikshwas walas who will benefit, the hotels who will benefit, the grocers who will benefit, the soap manufactures the hospitals and doctors etc.

It will kick start an entire economy around this investment. The feasibility of the Train itself become unimportant when you consider all these benefits.

Not to mention the expertise we will gain in Hi Tech and High speed train systems.
 
Come'on mein Delhi rehta hu..why mumbai to Ahamdabad...i need that here too.atleast delhi to chandigarh kr do ..gf se toh mil lunga one hour mein:woot::woot::woot::woot:

Arey.. Aaapke liye toh His Highness "Kejriwal" concord layega

1513768_252785691573214_2819275379812133141_n.jpg


:woot::woot::woot:
:D
 
Here 'they' means we. If this thing is going to cost what a flight will cost, then we should also not expect a lakh people to travel on it. I am fine with public infrastructure projects getting constructed at breakeven or even a little less than break even, if millions are going to use it. But this thing, I am afraid is not that. We are not learning from other's lessons here. If we subsidize some regular passengers with an infrastructure project then it is fine. But subsidizing high cost railway, that too at a risky price should have been debated. Sadly we would have more discussion about stupid remarks by politicians than real issues like this in India.

Even USA is still considering whether high speed rail is profitable. Chinas bullet trains are said to be unprofitable for a long time now. And they have crushed their bleeding airlines more. Indian airline industry has only one profitable low-cost airline(I have no sympathy for them though). But my point is instead of spending money on creating alternatives for high cost travel, we can spend on projects targeting more number of people.
I disagree with your view.

USA can afford to ponder over whether they should build HSR, we, just like the Chinese, cannot.
The reason - USA's landmass to population ratio is utterly ridiculous. Their major cities span thousands of kilometers from each other. And HSR only makes sense (comfort/cost) when it is short to medium distances in densely populated areas.

For USA building HSR across their major points of interest would mean many many hundreds of billions of dollars. Particularly when their society does not like train travel. Their citizens prefer taking their cars even where comfortable rail options are avilable.

For us, rail is not a choice, it is a necessity. Ultimately, as costs spiral downward, HSR will become the mainstay of rail travel.

In this particular case, the financing seems to be the clincher. If GoI were to be spending their own budget money on HSR(ie $15 billion) on it, I would cry foul. It would make much much more sense that GoI spent that amount on Indian Railways to upgrade average speed from current 70-90kmph to 150 kmph across India and increase tracklength by a multifold.

However, the GoI is not spending its own money.The GoI has already tied up massive financing for IR using LIC funds. So funds for IR are also not a problem...GoI is starting to invest big amounts in IR already. Case in point - Billion dollar deals for loco factories signed with Alstom and GE that had been promised for donkey years but were only done now.
The current investment plan in IR is impressive already.

The Japanese are spending in this case. The amount is massive. It would have very high spinoff benefits over very wide facets for the economy as a whole and the payback period is humungous. After 50 years, India's economy will indeed find $15 billion peanuts to pay back. The Japanese have also submitted a financial/economic viability report to the GoI that states that the project will make business sense. They have chosen what is probably the most affluent section of India - that between Gujarat and Mumbai.

I am firmly in favour of this project. I wish it goes through as a pilot project and let us see how it turns out. I am optimistic.
 
You are again missing the Forest for the Trees.

IT IS NOT OUR MONEY. Its Japanese Money.

We are NOT investing our own money. The Japanese are investing their Own money in India just to make sure we will buy their Trains.

This money will not be available for anything else.

But what it WILL do is FREE UP Money of the govt. for other areas of investment like mass public transport.

So the whole question of feasibility does not arise since ITS NOT OUR MONEY. What part of this do you not understand ?

The only worry should be will the Bullet Train become Feasible in 50 Years ? Cuz THAT is when we have to pay them back.

Now imagine the multiplier effect this money will have on the economy. The property prices, the autorikshwas walas who will benefit, the hotels who will benefit, the grocers who will benefit, the soap manufactures the hospitals and doctors etc.

It will kick start an entire economy around this investment. The feasibility of the Train itself become unimportant when you consider all these benefits.

Not to mention the expertise we will gain in Hi Tech and High speed train systems.

We will see if any Japanese company will agree to BOT on the project. Then we can believe if it is profitable and that it is not our money. Besides the money will also be used for land acquisition, new rails and on-route infrastructure. I the existing railway lines are going to be used, then I am all for it. It can improve the speed of all trains between Mumbai and Ahmedabad.

That is what I am saying the hotels who benefit etc will not be much when there are less than 5000 people travelling on airlines today on the same route. The problem with multiplier effect is that this is a very high cost mode of transport which will be used by few. Also being a bullet train, the stations have to be farther apart like our superfast trains.

I am also skeptical about the expertise we get in hi-tech speed trains. If the project is getting completed in 7-10 years, it means there is no transfer of technology involved.

I agree that Japan may not have given the loan for anything else. But if someone gives you an elephant for free, you don't take it.
 
It will inject 15 Billion $ into the Indian Economy TODAY.

The multiplying effect of that investment itself will be more than 30-40 Billion $ in the next 5-10 years.

Its literally Free money worth 15 Billion $ being injected into India and we have to pay it back after 50 years :cheesy:

There is literally no downside to it.
Small correction. I will inject 15bil$ over 10 years. and we have to pay it back over 50 years, starting from 10th year as per usual terms.

I hope the pilot succeeds. But I am skeptical given the skewed cost-benefit ratio especially given that this is not going to be used by common man at least for a few decades.
 
@anant_s do you know if this is a Mag Lev Train project ?

Naah , Maglevs will be too much.


On the topic , this project needs to be completed fast, because it is the initial years where it has guranteed advantage over air travel.

Why
As opposed to what people here are saying, that travelling by air will be cheaper and preferable, it will not.

Why?
Because The aviation in India is not poised to grow at a rate required, meaning at the rate where middle class are able to afford it.

It means, less seats, and much more passengers=> higher air prices.
This is where, this project will get its share of the pie.

I think this trend will not last for more than 10 years as more and more companies enter the market.
 
We will see if any Japanese company will agree to BOT on the project. Then we can believe if it is profitable and that it is not our money. Besides the money will also be used for land acquisition, new rails and on-route infrastructure. I the existing railway lines are going to be used, then I am all for it. It can improve the speed of all trains between Mumbai and Ahmedabad.

That is what I am saying the hotels who benefit etc will not be much when there are less than 5000 people travelling on airlines today on the same route. The problem with multiplier effect is that this is a very high cost mode of transport which will be used by few. Also being a bullet train, the stations have to be farther apart like our superfast trains.

I am also skeptical about the expertise we get in hi-tech speed trains. If the project is getting completed in 7-10 years, it means there is no transfer of technology involved.

Its an Infr project so it has to be BOT. Its better for India if its not :lol: That means the japanese will have to bear this white elephant till its end of life and will have to recover the money from sale of ticket and not from teh govt.

Obviously the existing train line cannot be used. Such high speed trains usually run on special tracks built in specific corridors.

This will be completely independent of existing tracks. It will be an ALTERNATE means of transport.

The hotels will benefit when THEY ARE BUILD THE Tracks. Not when its complete :lol: It will need Thousands of Skilled and Unskilled Workers. Foreign Experts, Japanese Technicians, etc.

They will spend their time and money in India, buy stuff, Travel, Stay, eat, watch movies, drink alcohol etc. in INDIA.

The usefulness of the Train itself is Irrelevant in this case.

The Tech exposure will come while BUILDING such a Hi Tech system in India. By getting Trained in Quality processes, Standards, Equipments. By Maintaining such Hi Tech systems etc.

Not by foolish screwdriver ToT route that CONgress gave us.

Small correction. I will inject 15bil$ over 10 years. and we have to pay it back over 50 years, starting from 10th year as per usual terms.

I hope the pilot succeeds. But I am skeptical given the skewed cost-benefit ratio especially given that this is not going to be used by common man at least for a few decades.

So what ? its still free money that will provide employment to thousands and secondary benefits to Thousands more. TO maids, garners, waiters, construction workers, electricians, teachers etc.

They payback terms is still unclear. so let it play out first.

The Train itself will be a white elephant. No doubt.
 
Hmm...no. The terrain is hilly. Hence cost will be higher than laying on a plain.

Very simple. They dig tunnels like Switzerland & Norway.
Mumbai Pune expressway has 4 tunnels.
This is not to say that Mumbai Pune High speed train would cost higher than the Mumbai Ahmadabad route which is 4 times larger than Mumbai Pune.
 
Naah , Maglevs will be too much.


On the topic , this project needs to be completed fast, because it is the initial years where it has guranteed advantage over air travel.

Why
As opposed to what people here are saying, that travelling by air will be cheaper and preferable, it will not.

Why?
Because The aviation in India is not poised to grow at a rate required, meaning at the rate where middle class are able to afford it.

It means, less seats, and much more passengers=> higher air prices.
This is where, this project will get its share of the pie.

I think this trend will not last for more than 10 years as more and more companies enter the market.

Nope. Air travel will always be better than super fast trains. Cheaper, shorter, safer and more comfortable.

Aviation market in India is going to be one of the largest in the world.
 

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