Dear Indians | We are NOT west Germany

[parkland]

wwe cant live without and also cant live with each other.

 

[AUz]

my pakistani brothers came out of the superiority complex..i myself is 17 in direct generation of baba manka who establish the city of Chawinda and his brother naro bajwa establish narowal...there is nothing called as islamic land....non muslam has play big role in establishing cities and town before creation of pakisthan...

I know ....there's no 'Islamic land' .... Pakistanis never say that "this land is a Islamic land" etc ... Only Mecca and Madina are "Islamic lands" as such....other than that ....the whole globe is just 'land' with different countries on them..Some secular , some Christian and some Islamic etc ...

 

[parkland]

Or Bhartis like you just don't have balls to say this on the face of Pakistanis? You very well know that , in real life , you will get your a$$ handed to you by Pakistanis , if you say some crap against Pakistan....isn't it?

On Topic : Even I have one bharti friend who say this (re-unification) thingy ...then I say to him "OK , but the name of the united country will be 'Greater Pakistan' ... .... then he just deviates from the topic (wisely so) and jokes around that how he'd conquer Pakistan in next 20 years anways ....lol..

first pakistan never touched our *** and u guys cant for obvious reasons.
second we dont care about pakistan, u guys have ur own world which we dont wanna live in or be a part of. we see our nation as progressive and every day we see ourselves taking one inch ahead towards prosperity.

your problems are instability, army invasion, terrorism and bad governce. our problems our bigger infrastructure, poverty and most imp 8% maintaining economic growth.

there is simply no similarity btw the two nations. it will just be a clash of 2 different kind of ppl if greater pakistan is formed. u dont need to make up stories abt ur hypothetical indian frnds.

i live in canada and meet pakistanis everyday in my uni, pakistanis are effed up from their own country and keep themselves to cricket because they know if they go any further with indians they get owned.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hello:

I have had enough with listening to the crap of my Indian neighbors who still are hungover by the 1947 partition. Every Indian that i came across over the years in real life or through social media had views that the partition was unjust & hence should be reversed.

I heard , the rhetoric being beaten up by Indians on international media over and over again - something like - "we are one people" -"partition was stupid"-"If east and west Germany can Unify why not Pakistan and India" - "Unification is the only way to peace".

I want to make it clear that our previous generations might have been a bit confused about the partition , but the generation we raised in the 80s are black blooded Pakistanis. We surely have no confusion about our identity.Many of us today realize the reason for the creation of Pakistan.

Regardless of how much the "Two Nation Theory" is ridiculed by the Indians which is quite natural and understandable & by some naive , short sighted Pakistanis , it does provide a concrete basic of division between Indo Pak.

Looking at the plight of Indian Muslims -regardless of what some apparently Muslim members say- , its confirmed that how Muslims would have been treated if there was no partition. Indians must come to terms with the fact that we are NOT one people , we are different in our way of life , culture , beliefs , dresses , events , language , literature , history , customs , arts , music , food and what not - you name it.

One example is the beef issue , Hindus don't eat beef because its holy to them. We Muslims even cook & love eating its bones. Some Hindus drink its urine where as a single drop of cow urine on Muslim's body or clothes requires a complete ghusl Ghusl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Hindus don't drink its milk - Muslims have it in their daily diet. Regardless of some of you might say about how "small" this issue is but the fact is that you already have a fault line on a issue as small as dietary , let alone the rest of the affairs.

So , Pakistan doesn't need a unification - get it straight. If the unification is important than the best option for Pakistan is to form a union either state or strategic with Afghanistan.

In the end , i would like to suggest to my Indian folks - we are TWO VERY DIFFERENT NATIONS- Get over it , live & let live , we are not west Germany nor you are East Germany , we were NEVER meant to live as one country.

Regards: Aeronaut

You have been meeting and interacting with a lot of sentimentalists with little or no knowledge of the events that led to Partition, if one is to go by your account of Indian opinion.

Just so that you can say in future "every Indian but one", let me place this on record: I do not think that Partition was unjust, or that it should be reversed. I certainly believe that Partition was unfortunate, that there were ways of constitutional resolution that were not explored by the two sides debating the future make-up of independent India, but it was not unjust. And considering that a Pakistani national consciousness has grown, just as a Bangladeshi national consciousness has grown, it would be absurd and sentimental to the point of being soft in the head to wish for a reversal.

The Two Nation Theory was and remains ridiculous. It was a concoction of right-wing religious fundamentalists on both sides - many Pakistanis do not know that it was FIRST suggested by a bigoted Hindu - and therefore obnoxious to secular opinion. While it has been cited widely as a basis for partition, the basis for partition was the insecurity of educated Muslims about their future prospects within an overwhelmingly Hindu nation. This was given flesh and blood in the tendentious, selective, artificial and xenophobic formulation of the Two Nation Theory.

Your statement about the plight of Indian Muslims is debatable. Their general physical condition and social status is dictated by the poverty of our country itself, and by the fact that the more educated sections of Muslims from those sections of the country now in India left for Pakistan. Most of those who were left were the poorer labouring and farming sections, and their social cross-section is poorer and less educated than the general cross-section of the country. It is natural that they lag the national averages in most respects. This itself has been a matter for intense national debate, and a commission of enquiry, which made extensive enquiries, came to radical conclusions and placed a challenge in front of the administration and the political world, to secure the numerically equivalent advancement of Indian Muslims as a national priority. I take pride in our country's self-critical attitude towards the minorities, even though they have prospered in terms of numbers in our sixty-five years of existence.

Your statement about Muslims and Hindus not being one people are plainly false, and is proven false by our successful development as an inclusive nation. At the same time, I sympathise with your need to state the reverse, and commiserate with you for having to justify your national existence by arguing against the composition of some other nation. That, after all, is all that your broadside about Indian Muslims is.

Your examples are hilarious. Many Hindus eat beef, although the vast majority do not. Every Hindu drinks cow's milk. The number not eating onions is limited to Jains, who form a small fraction of the country, 0.4%, less than half of one percent, in 2001. There are many vegetarians, some rigorously so, consuming no non-vegetarian food, some eating vegetarian food as a general rule but not averse to non-vegetarian on a limited basis.

A small minority use cow urine in any way, and they are rarer, in my opinion, than the number who eat beef: unfortunately, neither assertion can be proved through research, as these are such personal questions that they are unlikely to be admitted to prying strangers.

Your suggestion that Pakistan should unite with Afghanistan is brilliant, with one minor difficulty - did you ask the Afghans? Marrying a beauty queen is a fine idea, but you might like to get her consent first. Please note carefully that I refrain from stating who should be the beauty and who the beast in such a union.

There is therefore not much need to issue this stirring manifesto, as the bulk of Indians, other than the occasional sentimental Punjabi, is really not inclined to spend time speculating on Partition, but accept it as a fact of life and moves on. As, indeed, I suggest you do.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Good , thats what i want to hear - but i don't hear that from the people i want to hear - Highly Educated Indian Class i mean !

A healthy correction to the situation might be achieved by your mingling with highly educated Indians.

I have made a lot of Indian friends , i love them , they are good people and good friends - yes many of their practices contradict even their own religious mates , its just weird.

You might like to consider what conclusions may be drawn from this finding. Apart from conclusions about the observed, that they are weird not to possess identical cultural and social customs, it might lead to conclusions about the observer, that you are uncomfortable with diversity. The explanation for the diversity is fairly obvious, and is left an an exercise for the reader.

 

[PakiRambo]

Honestly, the reasons you mentioned that separate Pakistanis from Indians are quite poor. It has MUCH MORE than just to do with eating beef, using cow urine or drinking milk. I've never eaten beef all my life neither has anyone in my family or my predecessors, so that defeats your argument claiming that all Pakistanis enjoy beef.

The fact that you mentioned Pakistanis brought up in the 80's know much more about the partition and why it happened than earlier Pakistanis worries me because, to be quite frank, the average Pakistani Youth today doesn't even have a clue. Coupled with your poor reasons to back up your arguments, it's also giving me the idea that you don't have a clue either.

Pakistan's creation and reason for partition was to create a separate Muslim-Majority state so we could abide by Sha'riah Law and follow the religion of Islam in it's entirety, according to The Holy Quran and Teachings of the Noble Messenger Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him). Pakistan was created for the betterment of the future of our youth and children so they can grow up and become leaders in an Islamic environment and follow Islam in it's entirety without being oppressed by Radical Hindus. The Muslims needed their own majority state and they weren't allowed to have it within India, so the only decision was to create our own.

Also, Pakistani culture is not too far different than Indian culture. It has only evolved since the onset of 1947. Although there are many things that separate us from Indians, you'll find that there are just as many things that bring us together. For example, Punjabi culture in Pakistan is very similar to the type of Punjabi culture seen in India. I'm not going to go into the details, but apart from religion and different idealistic values and morals, you'll see that Pakistanis and Indians are very similar.

Also, most Indians are either neutral on the issue of re-joining Pakistan with India or they don't support it at all. Same goes with people from the Pakistani side. Both countries have their own issues to deal with in future years, the last thing we want is more debating on the issue of partitioning ourselves back together. That would defeat the very purpose of Pakistan's reason for creation and existence.

You should also read up on what the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah (may his soul rest in peace), had told us:

"Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but the Muslim Ideology which has to be preserved, which has come to us as a precious gift and treasure and which, we hope other will share with us."

"We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play."

"You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil."


So I hope next time, you think about the reasons for partition, that it's a much bigger issue than a few minor differences like eating beef, using cow urine etc..

 

[kingkobra]

Partition was the best thing that ever happened in our history...all our other achievements like success in fighting polio and aids is only because of partition...We actually have a chance at becoming a good nation...i can not imagine the same would have happened if we had not separated..

 

[Patriot]

You only have to see posts of Indians on this forum or any other Indian forum to see how rabidly anti Muslim they are.Thanks to our forefathers who did the right thing and created Pakistan.I mean it's the only secular democracy/hypocrisy where you can go to jail for eating beef where the Muslims can't slaughter a cow on their festival and Hindus can pretty much celebrate all their festivals .

 

[PakiRambo]

Instead of raising arguments based on partioninig ourselves back together and trying to take things out of what context of what certain Indians might have said regarding the issue, don't you think we should honour the thousands of Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Christians etc. from both sides and all of the sacrifices and hardships they had to go through in order for the partition to occur? Our ancestors hoped and prayed for a Muslim Majority state, likewise I'm sure there are people on the Indian side who wanted to continue having a Hindu Majority state and were worried the Muslims might re-gain their numbers (Look at history where Muslims ruled for hundreds of years) so this partition should be taken honorably and remembered in the respect of thousands who died from both sides. The partition occured for the betterment of the future of both countries. It's written in history now, and unlike Germany, never will Pakistan and India (due to increasing tension, arguments, different belief systems, both nations becoming fully independent from each other etc.) ever partition back together.

 

[RayKalm]

a wise indian man tells the benefits of drinking cow piss - YouTube

 

[acetophenol]

Hello:

I have had enough with listening to the crap of my Indian neighbors who still are hungover by the 1947 partition. Every Indian that i came across over the years in real life or through social media had views that the partition was unjust & hence should be reversed.

I heard , the rhetoric being beaten up by Indians on international media over and over again - something like - "we are one people" -"partition was stupid"-"If east and west Germany can Unify why not Pakistan and India" - "Unification is the only way to peace".

I want to make it clear that our previous generations might have been a bit confused about the partition , but the generation we raised in the 80s are black blooded Pakistanis. We surely have no confusion about our identity.Many of us today realize the reason for the creation of Pakistan.

Regardless of how much the "Two Nation Theory" is ridiculed by the Indians which is quite natural and understandable & by some naive , short sighted Pakistanis , it does provide a concrete basic of division between Indo Pak.

Looking at the plight of Indian Muslims -regardless of what some apparently Muslim members say- , its confirmed that how Muslims would have been treated if there was no partition. Indians must come to terms with the fact that we are NOT one people , we are different in our way of life , culture , beliefs , dresses , events , language , literature , history , customs , arts , music , food and what not - you name it.

One example is the beef issue , Hindus don't eat beef because its holy to them. We Muslims even cook & love eating its bones. Some Hindus drink its urine where as a single drop of cow urine on Muslim's body or clothes requires a complete ghusl Ghusl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Hindus don't drink its milk - Muslims have it in their daily diet. Regardless of some of you might say about how "small" this issue is but the fact is that you already have a fault line on a issue as small as dietary , let alone the rest of the affairs.

So , Pakistan doesn't need a unification - get it straight. If the unification is important than the best option for Pakistan is to form a union either state or strategic with Afghanistan.

In the end , i would like to suggest to my Indian folks - we are TWO VERY DIFFERENT NATIONS- Get over it , live & let live , we are not west Germany nor you are East Germany , we were NEVER meant to live as one country.

Regards: Aeronaut

sir,
I as an Indian,strongly believe that the partition was unjust and unfortunate.I had the wishes of India and pakistan re-uniting.But,i am sure its not practical for India and Pakistan to re-unite now.

Looking at the plight of Indian Muslims -regardless of what some apparently Muslim members say- , its confirmed that how Muslims would have been treated if there was no partition. Indians must come to terms with the fact that we are NOT one people , we are different in our way of life , culture , beliefs , dresses , events , language , literature , history , customs , arts , music , food and what not - you name it.

You are wrong here.i don't know about pakistan,but in India you simply cannot say that merely "hindus" are different from "muslims".It highly depend upon the place you are living.There are places were hardcore hindus live,liberal muslims live,harcore muslims live,liberal muslims live,christians,jews,jains,sikhs,parsis,atheists and deists along with a thousand other religions about which you have no idea about.

My point is that,you simply cannot generalize a group called "Indian hindus" and "Indian muslims" because there are regional desparities in within hindus and muslims and between hindus and muslims.

for ex:the beef issue.some Hindus in kerala and many other parts of india love to have beef especially along with "porrotta".I can post a dozen photos of my friends having beef if needed as evidence!!!!

Also within Muslims there are several differences in their customs and practices.For eg:,in kerala (i don't know about other parts of india),Mujahideens don't say "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un............" in a funeral while transporting a "mayyit"(dead body) to the funeral ground and they oppose others saying it.Other types,like the shia and sunnis in kerala say it.

so my point is that you telling India and pakistan cannot coexist simply because hindus and muslims cannot coexist is wrong.if we are thinking in that way,India would have been a thousand little countries.But India is the greatest evidence that man can do anything if he desires to do. We have learnt to live united under the name of a nation learning to live through our disparities,the differences between and within religions,regions,cultures.If India can remain united for this long there won't be any problem considering the re-uniting of india and pakistan.However considering the practical and administrative difficulties i would like to see India and Pakistan remain as two "brotherly-friendly" nation.
thank you.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Pakistan's creation and reason for partition was to create a separate Muslim-Majority state so we could abide by Sha'riah Law and follow the religion of Islam in it's entirety, according to The Holy Quran and Teachings of the Noble Messenger Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him).

Is your avatar Shariah-compliant?

 

[jayron]

This is a Pakistani propaganda to keep hating Indians due to their own confused identity. More over we like the cool shape of India's map now. any extra land will ruin it. No thanks!

 

[OrionHunter]

Unification with Pakistan? You gotta be kiddin' me! Get over it. These are delusional rants from some ignoramuses.

But seriously, partition does not prove that the Hindus and the Muslims of the subcontinent are two different nations. All it proves is that people are capable of doing horrible things to each other.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You only have to see posts of Indians on this forum or any other Indian forum to see how rabidly anti Muslim they are.Thanks to our forefathers who did the right thing and created Pakistan.I mean it's the only secular democracy/hypocrisy where you can go to jail for eating beef where the Muslims can't slaughter a cow on their festival and Hindus can pretty much celebrate all their festivals .

I read your comment about anti-Muslim Indians, and rushed to the mirror if the horns had made their appearance yet. Please be informed that neither they nor the tail have appeared, although I am told by family members that there is a distinct sulphurous odour about me.

Your comment about beef-eating, and cow slaughter was strange to read. That happens, I believe, in four or five states under BJP rule. The best beef is in Kerala, in Bengal, in UP, in AP, mainly in Hyderabad, and in specific locations in Delhi.

Incidentally, I am personally a vegetarian, due to choice, not due to religious persuasion.