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Connecticut School District on Lockdown Following Shooting Report

i see gun ownership more as a PRIVILEGE but not a "right" (kind of like driving privilege, for example)

take away this "right" from Americans, there will be a civil war. On a broad level, Americans and Pakistanis have at least one thing in common. They love their guns and wont get rid of them any time soon.
That is correct. Any attempt by the government to confiscate the guns of American citizens, would most certainly lead to armed rebellion.

These things can never be completely prevented. It has as much to do with the problems of the young man who did this and of American society turning away from God and family, as it does the availability of guns. This young man was disturbed and had been devastated by his parents divorce and his father's estrangement from the family. Like so many American young people, he seemed to have no network of friends and family, especially a father, and had no religious principles to guide him. It is so tragic that he chose to hurt others instead of crying out for help.
 
That is correct. Any attempt by the government to confiscate the guns of American citizens, would most certainly lead to armed rebellion.

These things can never be completely prevented. It has as much to do with the problems of the young man who did this and of American society turning away from God and family, as it does the availability of guns. This young man was disturbed and had been devastated by his parents divorce and his father's estrangement from the family. Like so many American young people, he seemed to have no network of friends and family, especially a father, and had no religious principles to guide him. It is so tragic that he chose to hurt others instead of crying out for help.

look - i do agree with one thing the NRA guys are saying (and believe me, i think this is a time they should keep their mouthes shut and stop playing with peoples emotions by releasing these ill-timed statements)

if he wanted to kill people, he'd have done it anyways......now obviously, the weapons this ***** had access to (registered in his mothers name, i understand) such as the Bushmaster are assault weapons. Still classified as "small arms" but most certainly the name does it no justice. They were designed with only purpose in mind.

on the same day, some lunatic somewhere in China went on a rampage and stabbed a few dozens of kids in a school....and yet despite the injuries, there were no deaths...everyone went home that day. So it does beg the question of whether normal average Joes and Mohammads in civilian garb need or should be allowed access to these high powered rifles and automatic weapons - which can empty a 25-30 round clip within 3 seconds full trigger.

i'm a gun lover/collector myself and i have cabinets and drawers filled with guns back home (registered)....but even i believe that there needs to be much more done to ensure these weapons dont land in the hands of some crazy **** hell-bent on killing people and destroying property. If one day the government told me i have 48 hours to surrender them, i would comply. Why? Because i've seen what bullets do to innocent people with my own eyes and if i have to be collectively blamed for the actions of one psycho in the broader interest of AVERTING these kinds of disasters, i'm mentally mature enough to accept the extreme measure. But again ---- implement that in US or Pakistan -- nobody will take it seriously and/or they will rebel.

i dont have a solution here because even i dont know how you go about solving this problem.....i can be simplistic and just admit that maybe we are just violent people; or obviously we lack the ability to detect and truly understand these mental cases BEFORE they act.

it's hard to tap into the mind of somebody like that......according to the news, the victims (some as young as 4 years old) had MULTIPLE gun shot wounds.....meaning this guy was shooting, reloading and shooting more with total disregard for anything. Somebody who is that sick and demented, perhaps even God cant save him.
 
Guns will never take away. The nation is awash with guns. We have more guns then the Chinese,Indian,Russian armies combined. What can be done is background checks in gun shows,report if a person bought multiple rifles etc. Taking away gun and the second amendment. Anyone who tries to ban guns or repeal the second amendment would plunge the nations into a bloody civil war.
 
I largely agree with what you are saying here, Abu. I am an NRA member and own such weapons, but I am former career military and have had years of training. All are kept locked up in a safe, except my personal defense weapon which is on me or near me. I am not averse to the Congress looking at ways that we might prevent such carnage in the future. I did not vote for President Obama as I belong to the opposition party, but I am no political hard-liner. My only point was that so many of these shooters seem to come from backgrounds where they had no support, no one to recognize their mental or social problems, they felt alone and angry. So much of that has to do with the turning away from traditional family and values in America.
 
I largely agree with what you are saying here, Abu. I am an NRA member and own such weapons, but I am former career military and have had years of training. All are kept locked up in a safe, except my personal defense weapon which is on me or near me. I am not averse to the Congress looking at ways that we might prevent such carnage in the future. I did not vote for President Obama as I belong to the opposition party, but I am no political hard-liner. My only point was that so many of these shooters seem to come from backgrounds where they had no support, no one to recognize their mental or social problems, they felt alone and angry. So much of that has to do with the turning away from traditional family and values in America.

yes --- it's a question of ACCESS.

this guy wasnt the registered owner of those 5 guns which he was using.....his mother (the first person he shot dead) was the legal owner

so how do you implement or enforce how people STORE these weapons? well -- you really cant.


bottom line --- unless there's a major paradigm shift and a national consensus on issues like weapons control --- aint nothing gonna change. 2 months from now this shooting will be forgotten by most (but not all) until the next bloody incident and then again the debate will be re-ignited

since the columbine thing in 1999 there have been 32 school shootings in the United States --according to some new york times article i read the other day
 
Right to bear and keep arms have saved thousands of life which are not reported. Most of gun violence cases in US are attributed to illegal arms. Most of shooting with legal firearms in hands of unstable people occur in schools/parks/places of worship are the places where civilians cannot carry their firearms to begin with. This incident has been very tragic, it is obvious for people to react the way they are reacting right now, but knee jerk reactions can never bring anything positive to the table. We need to strengthen the institutions for already available laws in the book. In this case, firearms need to have proper storage and locks in residences to avoid access to unauthorized people, it is a stated regulation for ownership of firearms but has never been enforced
 
Right to bear and keep arms have saved thousands of life which are not reported. Most of gun violence cases in US are attributed to illegal arms. Most of shooting with legal firearms in hands of unstable people occur in schools/parks/places of worship are the places where civilians cannot carry their firearms to begin with. This incident has been very tragic, it is obvious for people to react the way they are reacting right now, but knee jerk reactions can never bring anything positive to the table. We need to strengthen the institutions for already available laws in the book. In this case, firearms need to have proper storage and locks in residences to avoid access to unauthorized people, it is a stated regulation for ownership of firearms but has never been enforced

100% agreed


but how to enforce and implement this? thats the main question
 
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100% agreed


but how to enforce and implement this? thats the main question

I think firearms owners here should be undergo training certification every three years. Every firearm owner should a safe, extensive training should be emphasized on safe storage. Every fire arm in US is sold with safety lock, people should be encouraged to use it when in safe. Biometric gun safe's should be promoted, and on every gun purchase, delivery of firearm should be subjected to proof of gun safe in the house. My firearms are safely locked in the cabinet, all firearms except 1 are never operational, some have their bolts removed, some have a lock running through the action. My ammo is locked in a separate chamber, except one single magazine load, which too is locked in the gun safe. Only me and my GF have the keys. Gun privileges come with a very very high degree of responsibility. It is imperative that gun owners need to get certified every two or five years about gun storage and firearms safety. If this mother had all her firearms safely stored in the biometric gun safes, i doubt if the kids could access it.
 
The Second Amendment in the US Constitution...

Second Amendment | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

this is where non-Americans who have not lived in the US do not understand and have a gross misconception about the US Constitution regarding the Second Amendment.

As a non American that has lived in the US i still dont understand but then i am a bow person not a gun fan.

What i do wonder about is the conflict between the first part of the amendment and the second. When you have people killing children en mass with automatic weapons i dont think that counts as well regulated.
 
seems pretty reasonable to me.....you seem like a responsible gun owner based on what you are saying at least.

biometric safe is an interesting suggestion that could work


actually we have a gun locker thread in this forum, i can post the link.....would be interested to see your collection, if you wanted to share it

as for the safety -- well i would hope that even the most half asssed/oblivious owners would have the sense at least to keep the safety on when not in use even if they insist on keeping it loaded with one in the chamber
 
What i do wonder about is the conflict between the first part of the amendment and the second. When you have people killing children en mass with automatic weapons i dont think that counts as well regulated.

First, this firearms were not automatic but semi automatic weapons, Next they were illegal, as they were technically stolen from the mother whom the firearms belonged to, hence were illegal firearms. There have been cases where legal owned firearms have contributed to such unfortunate incidents, but if you do compare to the ratio, you will find kitchen knives were used in a larger percentage than legal firearms that resulted in death. Safety and storage is a very important aspect. The gun laws in California require firearms owners to posses an ATF approved gun safe. When i bought my first rifle, before getting the delivery I went ahead and bought a 8 rifle gun safe. The hunters ed course and later the ITTS pistol and rifle courses were very helpful for me understand the importance of safety in storage transportation and operation of firearms. It should become mandatory for all firearms owners to take such firearms ed courses and NRA should promote it.

seems pretty reasonable to me.....you seem like a responsible gun owner based on what you are saying at least.

biometric safe is an interesting suggestion that could work


actually we have a gun locker thread in this forum, i can post the link.....would be interested to see your collection, if you wanted to share it

Post 252 on gun locker thread
 
it was illegal for him to have those weapons and conceal them on his person, but the rifle itself was legally owned and in fact --- i know of many people who own such weapons such as the civilian version of the AR15 (which i think fires 3 round burst)

so again -- it's about denying access to those who shouldnt be in reach of these weapons. . .unless the govt. was willing or able to breathe down the necks of every (registered and accounted for) gun owner in America and do everything in its power to "ensure" that lockers (bio metric or whatever) are being used --- i dont see any major policy shift here.

and the NRA will probably not be cool about further federal intervention.....and even an outsider like me knows how much influence and power the NRA wields. Aint no joke.
 
As a non American that has lived in the US i still dont understand but then i am a bow person not a gun fan.

What i do wonder about is the conflict between the first part of the amendment and the second. When you have people killing children en mass with automatic weapons i dont think that counts as well regulated.
That is the crux of the problem: The interpretation of what is a 'regulated militia'.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Here is my take on this...

A 'militia' is usually the last line of defense by the people against enemies, whether those enemies are foreign or domestic is for a different discussion. A militia -- in my opinion -- have been falsely associated with the 'National Guards', and here is my take on that as well...

The United States, the Swiss Confederation, the (once) Soviet Union, Canada, Australia, and even Pakistan, are 'federated' countries, meaning there are clearly recognized borders of political authorities with theoretical degrees of autonomy granted by a central or 'federal' government for ease of governance. Large countries are favorable for this type of governance. Historical China is filled with many eras where a united China was a federated state with regional governors ruling with powers near that of the emperor due to distance from the capital city. Federated states are vulnerable to regionally sourced sentiments of separatism, such as that of Quebec in federated Canada.

Chinese Communists were not opposed to federalism in theory, but opposed it on practical arguments in that federalism would (not merely could) be used to oppose the central government and divide the country...

Paper 1
...Chen Duxiu mounted a vehement attack on the Federalists:

I dare say that the biggest hidden reason for those who advocate "federation of provinces" (liansheng lun) is to accept the present state of affairs in which de facto powers are held by the various militarists......... Those who advocate "federation of provinces" are simply using "federation of self-governing provinces" (liansheng zizhi) as pretext to effect the seizure of territories by military governors in the various provinces.
Chen Duxiu was the CCP's first Secretary General.

That said, history also showed that the first line of defense against foreign enemies are the individual states inside a confederation. A state must hold or retard the enemy's advances while the rest of the country, under the leadership of the central government, create or reform the main army. The National Guards system is an adjunct to the main army under this concept of national defense. The main army can be and usually is expeditionary in foreign soil in national interests while the National Guards serves the role of 'home guards'. That mean the National Guards system is a formalized military branch, not a corps of hastily assembled fighting men whose main professions usually have nothing to do with the military. That is a 'militia'.

A 'militia' is not a mob. It can be hastily assembled for national defense when the main army is either not available or have been defeated and the country is being occupied, but once assembled it is usually organized into clear structures of command and control patterned after the main army. But because a militia is composed of men who are either not formally trained in military affairs or are veterans of the formal army, and usually have important social roots to the local areas, a militia cannot be expeditionary, meaning serving the national interests outside the borders. This make the militia the third and last line of national defense and inevitably also the last line of defense against a despotic and oppressive government, should that ever occur.

The words 'well regulated' does not mean under the control of the federal government but being under a rigid command and control structure during times of assembly. It is a loop or a form of circular logic, if you will: If there are weapons and being dangerous, the militia must be under some form of rigid hierarchy, and because there is a clearly defined command and control structure when assembled, allow this corps of fighting men to be armed.

That is why the American Founding Fathers said 'well regulated' instead of a mob. Their country came from resistance fighters of many militias. They know the difference.

So if there is no intention of having a last line of defense, then there is no need for the availability of weapons of any kind. But because the American Founding Fathers were wary of despotic governments, especially when they just severed their ties to one, they made sure that the militia is as forever available as possible to protect the people and for that purpose they made the availability of weapons supreme over the land.

it was illegal for him to have those weapons and conceal them on his person, but the rifle itself was legally owned and in fact --- i know of many people who own such weapons such as the civilian version of the AR15 (which i think fires 3 round burst)

so again -- it's about denying access to those who shouldnt be in reach of these weapons. . .unless the govt. was willing or able to breathe down the necks of every (registered and accounted for) gun owner in America and do everything in its power to "ensure" that lockers (bio metric or whatever) are being used --- i dont see any major policy shift here.

and the NRA will probably not be cool about further federal intervention.....and even an outsider like me knows how much influence and power the NRA wields. Aint no joke.
Any 'civilian' version of the AR-15 that is LEGALLY sold cannot be automatic, even with the 3-rounds burst feature.
 
the one i encountered was in Dallas Texas --- where civilians have access to fully auto weapons; legally or illegally i do not know b/c i didnt ask.

in fact they have conversion kits for those rifles to make them fully auto
 

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