415,000 Syrian babies born in Turkey since 2011

[Bengal71]

Most of those have residence permits (at least) while many have or will be given citizenship.
No it is not. The Christians and "Pagans" in Sub-Saharan Africa disagree with you as does most of Latin America (Christian). Many Muslim countries have healthy birth rates. Most of the Arab world for instance with only Iraq, Yemen and a few other countries having a too big population increase but at the same time no Arab population increase can be bad.

It is relevant because you complained about this all the while being pro-Erdogan if I am not wrong. It is a contradiction. As was the "breeding like rabbits" comment while being from Bangladesh.

I am not pro-anything. I have been raised in a hanafi family as most of Bangladesh is hanafi, when I grew up as an adult I was almost a kafir, then I became Islamist and then the most extreme of Islamists, you can take a guess which variety it was. Now I have calmed down, I let the brain do the thinking than mortgaging my thinking to be done by the mullah or this group or that group. If I have come across as pro-Erdogan nad/or pro-Mursi and/or pro-MB, and/or pro-Iran, then I have done so for specific pragmatic reasons whereby a Muslim country or group a group of Muslim countries might benefit and that was as per my understanding of the politics in the region. Don't support anybody like a mindless drone anymore, those days are gone.

It is relevant because you complained about this all the while being pro-Erdogan if I am not wrong. It is a contradiction. As was the "breeding like rabbits" comment while being from Bangladesh.

Bengalis did breed like rabbits once upon a time and it was a direct result of being one of the most conservative Muslim countries in the world. We no longer allow the braindead mullah control our population, there is secular government in power since 1971 and the birth rate is at a replacement rate now. But our situation is not comparable with the SYrians, we are a country at peace at the moment, Syrians are in a civil war and many are in refugee camps in foreign lands. Breeding like rabbits in a peaceful and stable country and in a refugee camp are two different things. Anyhow, I don't want to drag this discussion any further since I feel that you have a tendency of losing track of the flow of argument if you somehow perceive (albeit mistakenly) that someone is attacking Arabs. I have other reasons to attack Arabs but this is not one of them and not relevant in this thread.

There is no mockery at all. Just stating some facts (Bangladesh being the most densely populated country thus your first remark was an own goal of huge proportions, Bangladesh being a very small country is true as well as is it being swampy). Good for agriculture but not much else. Agriculture that originated in the Arab world (case in point) and the same agriculture that the Arabs had a huge impact on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Agricultural_Revolution

I wish nothing but the best for Bangladesh and know that most Bangladeshis like Arabs (seen it myself countless of times and on social media, all it takes is to visit some Arabic music video and you will have 1000's of comments (friendly) of Bangladeshis). Arabs had a historical presence in that country after all (despite the location) and helped spread Islam. if I am not wrong some Hashemite dynasty (Shia if I am not wrong) even ruled modern-day Bangladesh for a while.

We have amongst us some Islamist population and they will show love for any Muslim or anything Islamic, common habit of Muslims.

The general populace who are not Islamist but just moderately practicing also have affinity towards muslims, so it's possible you have seen friendly people.

However, BD is controlled by a government and the BD people's opinion is shaped by the intelligentsia and we have a large number of them and they are very influential. General people in any situation seeking direction will automatically go towards the direction the intellectuals show them. 1971 has good example of that. As such we are more inclined towards taking pragmatic decisions, will make friends with people who will benefit us, will remain indifferent towards people who don't benefit us and/or hostile. In Arabia the perception about Bengalis is shaped by the sea of poor and destitute workers they see toiling their streets, but the presence of those poor people is a reality we will deal with in the upcoming decades as we work on our economy but it does not say anything about our people and country. I understand the perception will remain largely same until we improve in economy and I think it's only a matter of time before we go back to our former wealth before the arrival of the British.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

I am not pro-anything. I have been raised in a hanafi family as most of Bangladesh is hanafi, when I grew up as an adult I was almost a kafir, then I became Islamist and then the most extreme of Islamists, you can take a guess which variety it was. Now I have calmed down, I let the brain do the thinking than mortgaging my thinking to be done by the mullah or this group or that group. If I have come across as pro-Erdogan nad/or pro-Mursi and/or pro-MB, and/or pro-Iran, then I have done so for specific pragmatic reasons whereby a Muslim country or group a group of Muslim countries might benefit and that was as per my understanding of the politics in the region. Don't support anybody like a mindless drone anymore, those days are gone.




Bengalis did breed like rabbits once upon a time and it was a direct result of being one of the most conservative Muslim countries in the world. We no longer allow the braindead mullah control our population, there is secular government in power since 1971 and the birth rate is at a replacement rate now. But our situation is not comparable with the SYrians, we are a country at peace at the moment, Syrians are in a civil war and many are in refugee camps in foreign lands. Breeding like rabbits in a peaceful and stable country and in a refugee camp are two different things. Anyhow, I don't want to drag this discussion any further since I feel that you have a tendency of losing track of the flow of argument if you somehow perceive (albeit mistakenly) that someone is attacking Arabs. I have other reasons to attack Arabs but this is not one of them and not relevant in this thread.




We have amongst us some Islamist population and they will show love for any Muslim or anything Islamic, common habit of Muslims.

The general populace who are not Islamist but just moderately practicing also have affinity towards muslims, so it's possible you have seen friendly people.

However, BD is controlled by a government and the BD people's opinion is shaped by the intelligentsia and we have a large number of them and they are very influential. General people in any situation seeking direction will automatically go towards the direction the intellectuals show them. 1971 has good example of that. As such we are more inclined towards taking pragmatic decisions, will make friends with people who will benefit us, will remain indifferent towards people who don't benefit us and/or hostile. In Arabia the perception about Bengalis is shaped by the sea of poor and destitute workers they see toiling their streets, but the presence of those poor people is a reality we will deal with in the upcoming decades as we work on our economy but it does not say anything about our people and country. I understand the perception will remain largely same until we improve in economy and I think it's only a matter of time before we go back to our former wealth before the arrival of the British.

The Hanafi fiqh originates in Iraq (Arab country) and all of Abu Hanifa's teachers were Arabs and he himself was Arabized and more Arab than an Afghan (he was from modern-day Afghanistan). This moronic idea of somehow only "Salafism/orthodox Sunni Islam" having "Arab roots" is absurd when Islam itself, all its sects (basically), Sunni, Shia, Sufism etc. originate from Arabia and the Arab world. As where most of the Sufi "saints" of South Asia.

That is good to hear as the politics of the region are extremely complex and everyone can point fingers at the other party depending on what is discussed. Nobody is a saint contrary to what some braindead people on PDF would like to pretend. Often people sickly obsessed about Arabs.

They (Syrians) are not breeding like rabbits and as I wrote to you most of Syria (nowadays) is peaceful and not war-torn expect for the occasional bomb blast here and there. I suggest watching videos from Damascus on Youtube or visit Twitter if you don't believe me or ask people living in Syria. I am not pro-Al-Assad either in the sense that I am not very fond of their alliance with the Iranian Mullah's, their betrayal of Iraq, the incompetent Al-Assad family itself or their policy in Syria and brutal methods but much if not most of Syria being relatively calm nowadays is not something that I will deny.

Don't mind me. I am mostly only online on this section whenever I bother to combat nonsense/propaganda aimed at Arabs as there are hardly any Arabs left on PDF as most left and did not bother to waste their time on stupid discussions unlike me at times.

What makes you think that Bangladeshis are only "toilet cleaners" in Arab countries? PDF propaganda? Bangladeshis like that of any expat group are a diverse group of people. Some are highly educated while others are not. Sure most are "ordinary workers" but so what? Outside of a few xenophobic locals, there is no trouble whatsoever and people respect everyone by large. Racism among Arabs is rare (at least in the GCC) as it is more about your economic/social status. A rich Afro-Arab will be respected by the same lot that will disrespect the Syrian or Bangladeshi cleaner. The only type of racism there is in the GCC alongside tribal rivalry and to a much, much smaller extent skin color despite Arabs coming in all shapes and forms (majority being olive skin, brown, pale, Black (Afro-Arabs) and everything in between). Hence no whitening creams and such. Arabs have always been proud of who they where and you can find ancient poems and writings of Arabs (intellectuals and commoners) where they praise their average skin color (olive skin). No caste system either among Arabs. No absurd fairytales of "Aryan/Dravidian" divide etc. Seen many people from South Asia think all the above is the case when it is all foreign to us.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

Don't forget Poland in the list of target countries for Arabization, very racist that place in need of some proper treatment.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Don't forget Poland in the list of target countries for Arabization, very racist that place in need of some proper treatment.

Not familiar with Eastern Europe but is it as bad as claimed? Well, I frankly don't care. Arab tourists visit that place and other "olive skin people" so it seems this does not bother most people. When it comes to migrants/immigrants and foreigners gaining citizenship, their countries and their rules. I doubt that there are many foreigners who would want to live in Eastern Europe when they can live elsewhere in Europe (West or South).

Met some Polish in person in Europe and most were friendly so no problem with them. There are racists and idiots in every population.

Actually read ages ago that Poland once had one of the largest Muslim populations in Europe and that Islam has a 800 year old history there. Mostly Tatars although they found 1000 year old Arabic coins there so trade ties are old.

https://aawsat.com/english/home/article/1425306/rare-arabic-coins-found-buried-poland-treasure

Some quick searches:

Iraqi in Poland:

BTW many Arabs from pro-USSR countries migrated to Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Romania etc. and ended up marrying with locals. I knew a few half Polish-half Arab people in Copenhagen and in France. Good looking lot (women).

So frankly I don't think that there is any hatred other than from some Islamophobic people who have little knowledge and who have never met any Arab or Muslim in person. Not that I care for all I care they can hate Arabs as much as they want to, lol. Poland is as relevant for Arabs as Mongolia is but I wish them all the best. They have never hurt any Arabs expect for Poland's involvement in Iraq which was mostly in the relatively peaceful South and not much confrontation.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Turkish "Arabs" are one of the most assimilated groups of all in the Turkish society. They literally are about to disappear. For instance, the Alawi population of Hatay is basically fully Turkish and heavily pro-CHP (Kemalists) while Sunni Arabs are the most loyal community to Erdoğan and his AK party in all of Turkey. That's right, he's more popular within the Sunni Turkish "Arab" community than he's in the most conservative parts of Anatolia.

There was even a scientific research paper that pointed out how extremely pro-Erdoğan the Sunni Arabs are. If I remember correctly almost 98% or so are voting for Erdoğan.

It's very strange but "Arabs" on the Turkish side of the border have very little connection and relation to the Syrian Arabs on the other side of the border considering they lived together for hundreds of years. This is not the case with Kurds in the same area.

In addition, the immigration of Syrian refugees has a very interesting effect on Turkish Arabs, too. Now they tend to hide their roots with the intent look more Turkish and become separable from the "real" Arabs.

I'm from Eastern Anatolia and I often talk to Turkish "Arabs" who almost always identify themselves as Turkish first.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Turkish "Arabs" are one of the most assimilated groups of all in the Turkish society. They literally are about to disappear. For instance, the Alawi population of Hatay is basically fully Turkish and heavily pro-CHP (Kemalists) while Sunni Arabs are the most loyal community to Erdoğan and his AK party in all of Turkey. That's right, he's more popular within the Sunni Turkish "Arab" community than he's in the most conservative parts of Anatolia.

There was even a scientific research paper that pointed out how extremely pro-Erdoğan the Sunni Arabs are. If I remember correctly almost 98% or so are voting for Erdoğan.

It's very strange but "Arabs" on the Turkish side of the border have very little connection and relation to the Syrian Arabs on the other side of the border considering they lived together for hundreds of years. This is not the case with Kurds in the same area.

In addition, the immigration of Syrian refugees has a very interesting effect on Turkish Arabs, too. Now they tend to hide their roots with the intent look more Turkish and become separable from the "real" Arabs.

I'm from Eastern Anatolia and I often talk to Turkish "Arabs" who almost always identify themselves as Turkish first.

Arabs of Anatolia predate the small Turkic migration to Anatolia by centuries. The predate the Kurds as well. The Bosniaks the Albanians etc.

What you are writing is utter nonsense. Arabs in Southern Turkey continue to speak and identify as Arabs but simultaneously as Turks as well which is natural as they have been an integral part of Turkey much like Iranian Arabs have been an integral part of Iran and that of any Arab diaspora from Latin America to Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei. Hatay is still Arabic-speaking in the majority.

Since there are hardly any Arab users left on PDF, we had 1 Saudi Arabian user @Full Moon talk about his visit to Turkey a few years ago and him being driven around by a Turkish Arab from Urfa who he could speak Najdi Arabic with due to the similarities of dialects.

Even the first lady of Turkey (ethnic Arab) speaks fluent Arabic.

Of course Turkish Arabs are pro-AKP as AKP itself is very pro-Arab to the extend that many Turks complain about Erdogan's obsession about all things Arab.

That is utter nonsense. The Arabs of Turkey and Syria (Sunni Arabs) share tribal, clan etc. ties and intermarry. Like in any border region of the world. No different with Iranian Arabs.


Map shows the distribution of Arabs in 1965.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Turkey

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/عرب_تركيا

Of course tons of "Turks" are actually assimilated Arabs but that is another discussion altogether and only requires a visit on Youtube and to type in "Turkish DNA test". Greeks can attest to this as well just in their direction.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Ih6b9iupT6oC&pg=PA347&lpg=PA347&dq=The+Arabic+dialects+in+the+Turkish+province+of+Hatay+and+the+Aramaic+dialects+in+the+Syrian+mountains+of+Qalamun:+two+minority+languages+compared&source=bl&ots=4CFQev4khE&sig=kbl81a3nLyiJWHQStVSxF5DR1Ck&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PntMVYKtMeLKmwW6jIGQBw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The Arabic dialects in the Turkish province of Hatay and the Aramaic dialects in the Syrian mountains of Qalamun: two minority languages compared&f=true

Similarly, many Arab-Turks have strong ties with Arab tribes living in the northern regions of Syria. Turkish Arabs, predominantly Muslim, mostly live along the southeastern border with Syria and Iraq in the Urfa, Batman, Bitlis, Gaziantep, Hatay, Mardin and Adana provinces of Turkey.

Very interesting scholarly book about the newly created modern-day Turkish culture "made in Ataturk" @CamelGuy written by a Turk himself.


JOURNAL ARTICLE
Arabs in Kemalist Turkish Historiography
AHMET SERDAR AKTURK
Middle Eastern Studies
Vol. 46, No. 5 (September 2010), pp. 633-653
Published by: Taylor & Francis, Ltd.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775068
Page Count: 21
Topics: Islam, Alphabets, Words, Textbooks, Umayyad Caliphate, Abbasid Caliphate, Nonnative languages, Theoretical linguistics, Nationalism
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Confirms everything that I have always been saying about this topic.

Anyway let the holy Arabization continue, lol.

 

[Bengal71]

The Hanafi fiqh originates in Iraq (Arab country) and all of Abu Hanifa's teachers were Arabs and he himself was Arabized and more Arab than an Afghan (he was from modern-day Afghanistan). This moronic idea of somehow only "Salafism/orthodox Sunni Islam" having "Arab roots" is absurd when Islam itself, all its sects (basically), Sunni, Shia, Sufism etc. originate from Arabia and the Arab world. As where most of the Sufi "saints" of South Asia.

As I said, I was an avid Islamist, I am well aware of all the fiqhi branches and other sects that originated from Arabia. It's just the case that Bangladesh is hanafi and almost 100% sunni.

No absurd fairytales of "Aryan/Dravidian" divide etc. Seen many people from South Asia think all the above is the case when it is all foreign to us.

Aryan/Dravidian divide, white/black, upper caste/lower caste is a thing in India and Pakistan, not in Bengal. We are the most liberal of people in the subcontinent. It was one of the reasons we parted our ways with Pakistan.

Anyway, I wish all the best for the Arabs.

 

[xbat]

i see al watani very proud of with his arab brothers. my question "why dont a rich country like SA take all syrian refugees to give them a more prosperious and more arabic life? in SA borders. so you would be very happy right. how many syrians did SA take? zero?

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

i see al watani very proud of with his arab brothers. my question "why dont a rich country like SA take all syrian refugees to give them a more prosperious and more arabic life? in SA borders. so you would be very happy right. how many syrians did SA take? zero?

I wish all the best for the millions of Arabs in Turkey and the millions of Arabs in Indonesia. Even the Arabs that live in Greenland. In short everywhere in the world where the huge successful Arab diaspora is based.

Because those Syrian Arabs love Turkey and the very pro-Arab AKP and the very pro-Arab Erdogan. It is next door as well and Arabs have been living in Anatolia for millennia.

For example from 132 BC to AD 216 an ancient Arab dynasty ruled much of Southern Turkey and its capital was Ar-Ruha which is the modern-day name of Sanliurfa (derives from the Arabic word).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osroene

As for Syrian refugees in KSA since 2011, KSA has welcomed 500.000 people. More than any other country not bordering Syria directly (even though it is a stone throw away from Northern KSA) and Germany. Unlike Germany we already host millions of foreigners from numerous Muslim countries. More than any other country in the Muslim world.

Anhvinh Doanvo, Contributor
MSPPM candidate at Carnegie Mellon University, national finalist for the US Department of State’s Graduate Thomas R. Pickering Fellowship
Western Media’s Miscount of Saudi Arabia’s Syrian Refugees
09/23/2015 11:57 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017

https://guce.huffpost.com/consent?apidSessionId=3_cc-session_9eade9c6-9bdb-445b-aeb3-1893fc1fb9fc&done=https://www.huffpost.com/entry/europes-crisis-refugees_b_8175924?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEP3JBVkrV0hCLNXLHDgti7NI7yzqvQRSt8PxDeLdilAfBMBGwgsItTCtFoD4S8r07IxWFESViuyFPuMjr9O0hpYlI_bUmY8-X8djDLQsnqJ-802ZTHJ3LlCxfuK7P29kUQ9aUD69hzGcG7g7RyOfd3yaDLilM6_aMTpAN3q_uDi&lang=en-us&brandType=nonEu&gcrumb=2J1u2WE=&trapType=ats&bucketed=false&src=null

 

[xbat]

we dont fall in love with syrian arabs and we want them deport asap. that is not our problem, thats arabs' problem, deal with it.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

we dont fall in love with syrian arabs and we want them deport asap. that is not our problem, thats arabs' problem, deal with it.

You should have that discussion with the pro-Arab AKP and the pro-Arab Erdogan that has been ruling Turkey for almost 20 years and the majority of Turks. Not me or the 500+ million Arabs worldwide.

I understand that you want the millions of indigenous Turkish Arabs (that predate the small Turkic migrations) to be left alone, right? So it is only the Syrian Arabs that are the problem even though many of those Syrians are not Arab but Kurds and Turkmens.

I also understand that you are content about the growing number of Kurds whom a large group of them are pro-PKK and even some areas of Eastern Turkey are no-go areas and openly worshipping Ocalan.

You need to take the responsibility for having meddled in Syria. KSA is not crying due to hosting more Yemenis than anyone else.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The Illegal Syrians as well as Pakistanis, Afghans, Mullahs etc. in Turkey have shifted the perception of regular Turks about them despite the common value the Islam.

The cultures, faiths etc.; in other words, what makes them Arab, Pakistani etc. are extremely different than Turk ones, therefore many cases/confrontation of those vs. Turks in streets have factually slapped everybody in Turkey even the AKP voters despite the Islam bond. Also, the conditions for Turks get harder; so speeds that perception change up.

That is why Turks with controversial Arab connection have strated to end the controversion by rejecting it, which is another sign of the change in society.


In the long term, those will only visit Turkey as tourists and be only treated so by Turks... btw, All of them regardless of nationalities will be deported either way in the end.

 

[Yankee-stani]

@Nein

 

[Nein]

@Nein

Might work in our favour these babies being born too bad Turkey no longer has a devshirme or a turkification plan because it is racist and muh human rights.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Most Syrians in Turkey are not citizens and living in refugee camps. There is no need to stop mating but sex can be done without producing babies. This phenomenon is not a general human phenomenon, it is a special Muslim phenomenon which I explained previously was a result of preaching of the braindead mullah. It's the same story in the all Muslim world.



I don't know why you wrote this bit. This bit is political and is not the subject of this thread.



Give it a rest with your regular "densely populated and poor" about Bangladesh. Our and the subcontinent's woes and poverty is a drop in the ocean in our thousand years of history (we were never poor in history) and a direct result of colonization for about 200 years and we still haven't managed to recover from it, no oil or gas does not help the situation either, so we have to do it the hard way, business, industries and the likes. The mockery and snide remarks of our poverty is temporary and we will put up with that until we recover. And no, the swampy riverine geography does not make it difficult, it's a blessing, we have one of the most fertile lands in the world.

However, this is not relevant in the thread either, you as it seems took the matter as an attack on Arabs which it was not. It was a general criticism of irresponsible behavior of people and specially Muslims.

If only you had something between yours ears you'd understand the stupidity of your argument!
Entire middle east and north Africa continues to be least populated areas in the world even today let alone a hundred years ago when it was possibly 10th the population it is today. Besides the fact a lot of population in GCC countries today is from Asian countries from South and East Asia.
Whereas, Western Europe always bred like rabbits with each country boasting around 50 million souls making them amongst the largest populations per square mile. This on top of the fact that western Europe in fact populated Australia, New Zealand, North and South America and minority populations in other countries such as Zimbabwe, South Africa and other countries.
You cannot even compare European population increase with Arab/middle eastern. The only comparable populations are in East Asia and India/South Asia.