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Jinnah didn't know how to write or read Urdu

It was a good decision of Jinnah to choose Urdu as our national language. It did not work before 71 but it worked completely fine in today' s pakistan. Urdu has kept the nation united and our culture intact also.
 
Green Arrow said:
It was a good decision of Jinnah to choose Urdu as our national language. It did not work before 71 but it worked completely fine in today' s pakistan. Urdu has kept the nation united and our culture intact also.
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i agree with u sir....it is the language that anyone i mean anyone can understand...
 
I agree with @Pakistanisage that English should have served as the neutral language, people did not have anything against English, Muhammad Ali Jinnah did most if not all his speeches in English and nobody cared. English would have allowed each nationality to feel secure in their local languages as well while giving a common language to communicate with. Not to mention as psage mentioned the science and technological advantage would have been much greater.

As for Urdu no problem with it but I do believe that after it was made the national language it should have been further developed. For example there is still no word for ambulance or general and quite a few other English words that have no equivalent. This could and should have been filled out by borrowing existing Persian or Sanskrit terms, instead you have people using the English words and it sounds paindu as hell. :lol:
 
One thing some people must understand that just because Urdu is mother tongue of a community it was imposed on other communities of country before partition urdu was widely spoken and being used among people of sub-continent mainly among British Indian muslims and still is so, in my opinion the decision was right !

اردو ہے جس کا نام ہم ہی جانتے ہیں داغ
سارے جہاں میں دھوم ہماری زبان کی ہے

 
Gauss said:
Please provide an example. Because as far as i know there is not a single swear word in urdu. What pakistanis use are punjabi expletives.
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I joined PDF because I think of it as a respectable intellectual forum where people with interest in defence related issues can discuss their point of view with other like minded people in a civilized manner. I don't think we should give examples of swear word openly. Unfortunately many people while discussing issues get emotionally charged and use expletives and swear words. Some I find amusing and some I find disturbing. Keep reading and you will find plenty of swear words. Welcome to the club.
 
Imtiaz_Sarwar said:
I joined PDF because I think of it as a respectable intellectual forum where people with interest in defence related issues can discuss their point of view with other like minded people in a civilized manner. I don't think we should give examples of swear word openly. Unfortunately many people while discussing issues get emotionally charged and use expletives and swear words. Some I find amusing and some I find disturbing. Keep reading and you will find plenty of swear words. Welcome to the club.
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My question was a linguistic query. I conjectured that their are no expletives in Urdu language. I was discussing a characteristic of a language. I was examining this aspect with a scientific eye. Thats whats done in intellectual circles. They observe and discuss anything and everything to understand this world better. Well educated people are oriented this way. i.e studying everything without any regards for taboos. If you were better educated you wouldve never raised this objection.
 
rubyjackass said:
Jinnah's commitment cannot be questioned but you are way of the mark with other stuff about him. Jinnah was a good negotiator and a politician than a statesman. You would imagine a statesman would get respect from people across all sections. Whatever Jinnah achieved was because of his inflexibility not despite it. He would never have achieved any bit of Pakistan if he bent a little. His brinkmanship, vicious politics and blackmail(don't give us freedom if the Pakistan question is not settled) was what brought him his success. He could not have bent. Its like backing down in a poker game. His opponents would have read the cards and called his bluff if he showed any sign of genuine desire to see a united India.

Nehru should not be blamed for failure of Cabinet Mission Plan. It was a shi**y plan. Only people who think one Muslim = x Hindus find it sensible. It would be a loose-loose for India. Consider what would have happened by the plan. Entire Bengal and Punjab would be with Muslim states with Delhi at borders. Which means more territory to muslim states plus the ability to secede at a later time. Jinnah was ready to make secession impossible by law, but seriously what is exactly impossible?

There would be three levels of governance with the national legislature having equal number of muslims and hindus which is ridiculous. Now you also see why I said curbs on secession would be a joke. We would have become like Bosnia-Herzegovina with a president for Hindus and a president for Muslims both having veto over every issue. If you are calling the present state in India and Pakistan as policy paralysis, I shudder to think what would have happened then. Such a confederation is BS. The joke in all this is that even Jinnah did not believe in a confederation. That is why he wanted a strong Centre for the muslim states even though his constituents like the Punjab CM was pushing for stronger states(In fact this is with what Jinnah used to scare muslims states into supporting him. The argument that a Hindu PM will make them slaves).

No wonder then that strong proponents of united India like Gandhi also saw the reasoning.

Jinnah's not knowing Urdu was a tragedy for Pakistan. I will comment on a different post.


That is incorrect. You are saying that with a sour grapes attitude. Qauid wanted Bangladesh. He actually wanted the whole of the then Punjab and the then Bengal. Bengali was made the official language of Pakistan by 1956. But the other burning issues were like the discrimination against East Pakistan in expenditure even though they had higher population basically rejecting population based allocation.

Up until 4 years ago, the same population proportion principle was used by Punjab to grab majority share in taxes from the other provinces even though the highest taxes are collected from Karachi. We all know the causus belli for Bangladesh as well. It was not just a military dictator that rejected Mujib's mandate but also a democratic politician who would have stayed a long time in Pakistani politics.
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Well, the points you have raised to rebut my argument are exactly the factors that I believe shaped Jinnah's personality, and why I think Cabinet Mission plan was the best plan. Jinnah (and Muslims of India) were always apprehensive of Nehru's honesty and he raised this issue with the Cabinet Mission; yet he agreed to accept the plan provided Congress accepts it. Well, the then president of Congress, Abul Kalaam Azad, accepted the plan but his tenure as president was ending. It was during the visit of Cabinet Mission and while the negotiations were being done that Congress elected Nehru as its new president replacing Azad. Right after he was elected, he responded to a journalist's question regarding Congress's acceptance of the Plan by saying that "das saal kay baad kis nay dekha hay keh kia ho ga"! Since Nehru's statement clearly exposed his hidden intentions and motive in this regard, Jinnah immediately revoked his acceptance of the Plan which proved to be the last nail in the Cabinet Mission's coffin.

Your argument is totally based on Indian, or for that matter Hindu, perspective, and absolutely doesn't fit in the Pakistani perspective. Sir Sayyed Ahmed Khan said this in 1885 that Hindus and Muslims of India could never be one nation because we see things totally from opposite perspectives, and your argument proves his point once again. Making Urdu the only national language of Pakistan was a shortsightedness and Jinnah never was interested to stick with it. He was very sick and practically didn't have enough energy to participate in the governmental affairs. The problem with Muslim League's leadership was that they didn't have a post-partition plan to convert a movement into an organized political party that is eligible to run a state, and feudals had a free hand in post partition political debacles and Bengalis were considered outsiders and aliens the the power corridors. Godspeed Pakistan
 
Cheetah786 said:
You clearly don't know the reason why Urdu was chosen as the official language. It was chosen cause it was the neutral language between all provinces.Quaide never wanted today's bangladesh to be part of pakistan period. Even if Bengali was the official language Bangladesh still was going to seperate.
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That is a very incorrect statement. Who said Jinnah never wanted Bengal to be part of Pakistan? I disagree with your statement. I will qoute my previous response to Ghilzai. We were to blame for the division and fall of Bengal.

Ghilzai I do not agree this very common Pakistani assessment of the situation. If we had let the Bengalis vote in the type of governance they wanted we would not be in such a state. Jinnah would cry if he heard bengal was divided only 20 years after independence. We failed Jinnah. How can we say Jinnah failed us (we are saying Jinnah failed us if we make the cultural argument-they had nothing similar to us---- well they had Islam and look what we did to our own muslim brothers)

Lets go back. Lets note that India made the same mistake with us. They refused to let Muslims get the right to vote for muslim members, they disallowed muslim majority provinces to have their own voting system and laws. Its exactly the same thing Bengalis asked for in 1970 elections. We needed to give them some space, some form of freedom as a token to make them feel secure in the Pakistani union.

Not only did we stop them from getting their rights we sent the army in to force west Pakistan's decision onto them.

What could mujibur rehman have done? He couldn't divide the country then. We gave them the excuse to divide the country. I think we should admit our flaws and not repeat the mistake, for example in balochistan or pakhtunkhwa.

Also do note that Indians are not the champions of human rights of bengalis as they claim to be. They did the exact same thing in 1947 partition which led to the formation of Pakistan. And lets not forget they have been doing the same in Kashmir. However Kashmir is different because it has (in the indian part) a population of 7 million. With 1 billion + Indians they can easily absorb it. We on the other hand were stupider. We tried to take the rights of a group of people much larger than us.

Also urdu speakers had a major role in the formation of Bengladesh because we refused to give up urdu. We should have allowed Bengal to have their own language.
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This is the map of Pakistan of the now or never movement:

http://www.google.ae/imgres?imgurl=...i=-DLNVNLAOMKtPIzygagL&ved=0CAMQxiAwAQ&iact=c

Also i agree that urdu was to be a neutral language. No ethnic group would consider it their language in the Pakistan that was meant to be.

But its use as a neutral language was destroyed when we so-called sons of Jinnah, muhajirs insisted on muhajir or urdu speaker as their identity. Then it turned from a language of no ethnic group to a language of one ethnic group. Muhajirs today have a gdp per capita 13000 rupees higher than the punjabis who are at second place and have the most powerful jobs in the country. Despite this the community believes it is somehow being oppressed.

Jinnah clearly wanted the urdu speakers to merge with the ethnic groups that were local. By forming a seperate ethnic identity which muhajirs claim is actually imposed we destroyed jinnah's dream. I offer two solutions to the problem.

Call me racist or a self hater I am more than tired and hurt by the way we muhajirs have behaved since partition. Patriotism has been replaced with Altaf worship, target killers like Saulat Mirza and Ajmal Pahari are defended... anyway thats my beef. Anyone has another view... well away with it.
 
it doesn't matter about the language, east Pakistan was going to fall to matter what, the distance was too great and besides being Muslim east and west Pakistan didn't have much in common
 
SquadronLeaderDin said:
it doesn't matter about the language, east Pakistan was going to fall to matter what, the distance was too great and besides being Muslim east and west Pakistan didn't have much in common
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I strongly disagree. Our policy on Bengal was a huge failure. We should have tried everything to remain together. We were the largest muslim state. 350 million muslims in one state and we let india take it away from us. I would do everything short of war to unite Bengal and Pakistan again.
 
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haviZsultan said:
I strongly disagree. Bengal was a huge failure. We should have tried everything to remain together. We were the largest muslim state. 350 million muslims in one state and we let india take it away from us. I would do everything short of war to unite Bengal and Pakistan again.
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INDIA WOULD SEE THAT AS AN ACT OF AGGRESSION AND MAY RESULT IN ANOTHER WAR
 

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