US to offer F-35 fighters to India

[Kinetic]

Diversity is a must, but we already have a logistical nightmare that we have to reduce. So why not LCA, Rafale, MKI and Pak Fa / FGFA for IAF, as well as N-LCA (if needed), Mig 29K, naval Rafale and naval Pak Fa / FGFA for INs future too?

Diversity in techs, weapons and for roles, maximum commonality to reduce costs and ease logistics, as well as totally sanction prove!

Diversity has huge advantages but some disadvantages.

LCA, MKI, FGFA/PAK FA will be there. Waiting for EFT/Rafale/F-18. From naval side N-LCA and Mig-29K are already there and possible F-35. So its already a diversity. We can't change it now. We want the best systems from everyone! Also don't forget huge amount of money are spent on Mig-29 and Mirage upgrades they will be there until 2025 atleast.

 

[Imran Khan]

mmrca
lca
pak-fa
refale (yesterday news)
f-16 in
f-18
su30 40new
mig-29
eu fighter
and now f-35

man you guys wanna make india as a modern museum of jets. sab le lo yaar

 

[Donatello]

I have a feeling that this is going to be the next flame topic.

F-35 has yet to fly fully with US. I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions yet.

2015-2016 is like 4 years away. That's a lot of time.

 

[sancho]

Diversity has huge advantages but some disadvantages.

LCA, MKI, FGFA/PAK FA will be there. Waiting for EFT/Rafale/F-18. From naval side N-LCA and Mig-29K are already there and possible F-35. So its already a diversity. We can't change it now. We want the best systems from everyone! Also don't forget huge amount of money are spent on Mig-29 and Mirage upgrades they will be there until 2025 atleast.

See and that's where I disagree mate. We don't need the best that is available, we need the best that suits our needs and requirments!

Besides that, who says that F35 is the best? No SC, no TVC, not supermanouverability and so on, it lacks in several fields, where a naval Pak Fa, or FGFA would be better. In the anti ship role F35 will be hardly better than Rafale, because it has to carry anti ship missiles externally too.

What has the upgrade of IAFs Mig 29 and M2K to do with IN fighter procurement? It was just a lifetime extention, to keep them in service for another 10 - 15 years, till they will be replaced by Pak Fa / FGFA.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Let the procurement start. high likelihood babus will take their decision when f 35 retires

 

[Kinetic]

I have a feeling that this is going to be the next flame topic.

F-35 has yet to fly fully with US. I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions yet.

2015-2016 is like 4 years away. That's a lot of time.

P-8 MMA deal was signed when the aircraft 'yet to be fully with US'? So what about that?

I guess F-35 will get the deal as there is no other similar option available for a STOVL aircraft in near future.

 

[Kinetic]

See and that's where I disagree mate. We don't need the best that is available, we need the best that suits our needs and requirments!

That wasn't my idea but looks like Indian military work on that concept.

Besides that, who says that F35 is the best? No SC, no TVC, not supermanouverability and so on, it lacks in several fields, where a naval Pak Fa, or FGFA would be better. In the anti ship role F35 will be hardly better than Rafale, because it has to carry anti ship missiles externally too.

mate as I said F-35 is best option compared to others and we don't have other solution before 2020. F-35 has many deficiencies as you mentioned but what better than this? I am 200% sure naval PAK FA will not be available before 2020/22 assuming first FGFA to fly by 2017.

What has the upgrade of IAFs Mig 29 and M2K to do with IN fighter procurement? It was just a lifetime extention, to keep them in service for another 10 - 15 years, till they will be replaced by Pak Fa / FGFA.

We were taking about over all fighters (both in IAF and IN) in Indian armed forces service.

 

[deckingraj]

See and that's where I disagree mate. We don't need the best that is available, we need the best that suits our needs and requirments!

And you are absolutely right about it....However may i humbly ask what fighter do you have by 2015-2017 which is state of art and a big headache for our adversary??? As aid before couple of squadrons of F-35 will not bring in a big hole in our pocket...On top of that with our ever growing economic clout sanctions would become a game of Past...Remember that our potential adversary is China and not Pakistan...PN navy have to do a lot to seriously challenge IN....

Besides that, who says that F35 is the best? No SC, no TVC, not supermanouverability and so on, it lacks in several fields, where a naval Pak Fa, or FGFA would be better. In the anti ship role F35 will be hardly better than Rafale, because it has to carry anti ship missiles externally too.

That is where we need to discuss pros and cons...What actually are we looking for??? Are you saying FGFA naval version will not carry anti-ship missiles externally???? If F-35 can give me what rafael can and stealth once not in Anti-Ship role then don't you think it should be the right choice???

 

[SpArK]

On doing a google search there is no credible source that substantiates this claim only indian journalism which as it is already known to be trash journalism.

And for those who want to gather around hold hands and dance in a circle upon reading this Lockheed Martin offering this to India DOES NOT equal the U.S. government offering this to India. Furthermore even if the U.S. Government does offer this to India; U.S. Congress/Armed Services Commitee has to approve this.

Lockheed Martin can offer India B-2 Stealth Bombers for all anybody can give a hoot in reality these offers by Lockheed Martin means NOTHING. The economy is bad in U.S., Lockheed Martin is affected by this and doing these offers is just a marketing strategy with VERY LITTLE hope that U.S. Government will share the same interest with Lockheed Martin and U.S. Congress/Armed Services Commitee will approve this.

http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2010/06/28/us-defence-major-lockheed-martin-offers-f-35-fighters-to-indian-navy

 

[deckingraj]

The economy is bad in U.S., Lockheed Martin is affected by this and doing these offers is just a marketing strategy with VERY LITTLE hope that U.S. Government will share the same interest with Lockheed Martin and U.S. Congress/Armed Services Commitee will approve this.

Care to explain what good that marketing will do to LM if there is very little hope for US to approve it??? Also what reasons you see that US congress will not approve it??? If they can go ahead with as complex deal as civilian nuclear deal with non-signatory of NPT then how complex would be F-35...

 

[Guynextdoor]

On doing a google search there is no credible source that substantiates this claim only indian journalism which as it is already known to be trash journalism.

And for those who want to gather around hold hands and dance in a circle upon reading this Lockheed Martin offering this to India DOES NOT equal the U.S. government offering this to India. Furthermore even if the U.S. Government does offer this to India; U.S. Congress/Armed Services Commitee has to approve this.

Lockheed Martin can offer India B-2 Stealth Bombers for all anybody can give a hoot in reality these offers by Lockheed Martin means NOTHING. The economy is bad in U.S., Lockheed Martin is affected by this and doing these offers is just a marketing strategy with VERY LITTLE hope that U.S. Government will share the same interest with Lockheed Martin and U.S. Congress/Armed Services Commitee will approve this.

Don't see why the US Govt won't make the offer- we have both the money and the clout.

 

[sancho]

That wasn't my idea but looks like Indian military work on that concept.

As I said before, they are not! They are evaluating all fighters that could be on offer, even paperplanes like Sea Typhoon, or Sea Gripen was included, although IN didn't send the RFI to Saab and as a carrier fighter it clearly don't belong to the best.

mate as I said F-35 is best option compared to others and we don't have other solution before 2020. F-35 has many deficiencies as you mentioned but what better than this? I am 200% sure naval PAK FA will not be available before 2020/22 assuming first FGFA to fly by 2017.

First of all, you must take to account that IAC2 is also only on paper now, so the expected induction in 2018 is only possible, if everything goes perfect and we know how our developments goes right? Secondly, Pak Fa is expected to be ready by 2016 and you don't need that much time to redesign it for the naval use. Even a naval FGFA will not need that much time, because as we know the design will only differ in single and twin seat, so it will adopt all changes from N-Pak Fa too.
But as I said, I don't expect a single fighter type for that carriers, but one of these and later a naval Pak Fa / FGFA version too.

We were taking about over all fighters (both in IAF and IN) in Indian armed forces service.

Yes, but upg Mig 29 and M2K will only stay in service till 2025, so doesn't really matter, otherwise you must add upgraded Mig 27, Mig 21 Bisons and Jaguars too.

 

[sancho]

And you are absolutely right about it....However may i humbly ask what fighter do you have by 2015-2017 which is state of art and a big headache for our adversary???

In that time we have nearl all MMRCA contenders that are superior to nearly all adversaris like JF 17, J10, or J-15. J-XX will come only in the next decade, but we will have our naval 5.gen fighter before anyway.

As aid before couple of squadrons of F-35 will not bring in a big hole in our pocket...On top of that with our ever growing economic clout sanctions would become a game of Past...Remember that our potential adversary is China and not Pakistan...PN navy have to do a lot to seriously challenge IN....

I highly disagree on the costs, as I said in an earlier post, we are not a member in the development, we are interested in the most expensive version and will buy only a small number, that all will make it clearly more expensive than it already is and even more than EF, or Rafale in MMRCA.
I don't see PN as a challenge too and but as I mentioned above, MMRCAs like Rafale, or F18SH would be more than enough to counter Chinese carriers and fighters that are only planed so far.

That is where we need to discuss pros and cons...What actually are we looking for??? Are you saying FGFA naval version will not carry anti-ship missiles externally???? If F-35 can give me what rafael can and stealth once not in Anti-Ship role then don't you think it should be the right choice???

Not sure about that, because we still don't know enough about the internal weapon bays of Pak Fa.

Can F35 give what Rafale can? Especially the naval versions will often have to carry external stations, be it for anti- ship weapons, cruise missiles, or fuel tanks for more range. Carrier fighters can't be air refuelled that easy like their land based counter parts, so F35 stealth advantage, especially in use from IN will be less useful and makes it much more comparable to 4.5 gen fighters.

 

[Storm Force]

KSA is just a stupid Arab country with olil.

India GDP is now 4 times larger than KSA.

SO INDIA HAS MORE MONEY, MORE CLOUT AND NUKE SUBS

 

[karan.1970]

I have a feeling that this is going to be the next flame topic.

F-35 has yet to fly fully with US. I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions yet.

2015-2016 is like 4 years away. That's a lot of time.

When are J 10 going to be added to PAF ?? Isnt that 2014-2015? I dont see Pakistani members having any issues talking about that.. Thats 4 - 5 years out as well.. Isnt it?