Do or die....open questions to the IAF pilot

[Abingdonboy]

I wanna ask the senior members here.
Can any one compare the Training of the Pilots of IAF and PAF ? Yes, i mean to say, if PAF Pilots are better, what contributes to it ?

I have a firm understanding of PAF being very professional and definitely knows how to get the best from the "available resources". I wish to know, leaving the machine aside, how can the PAF Pilots better than IAF.

I would be grateful if a pure analytical approach is made. With Data inputs around Training and Skill Development.
I am looking forward to get info on Ground Staff Data and AWACS consideration as well.

There is little empirical data to back up such claims, mostly ideological falsehoods (i.e. one Pakistani= 15 Indians and such). There might (and I stress might) have been a time when this made sense because the IAF was training in complete isolation whilst the PAF was being trained by and with Western/NATO nations and thus it was very easy to see how the PAF stacked up against some of the eminent AFs (usually very respectably). However any such hopes have since been dashed as the IAF has started opening up and having their own exercises with the West and this has opened the world's eyes that the IAF has some of the best pilots themselves despite their former isolation. This is all very speculative in nature, when it comes down to tangible advantages it has to be said that it is advantage India as far as training infrastructure is concerned across the board (trainers, simulators and flight hours). Flight training is inherently an expensive business and will, thus, always benefit the better funded AF and so it may actually lead to the IAF further pulling away from the PAF as time goes by on this front or it will remain about equal but there is no reason to think that IAF pilots are somehow inferior to their neighbours in the PAF (as many here on PDF often like to claim).

But I would add it is only the ignorant who cling to such notions, the enlightened and professionals have no issue in sidelining such nonsense and weighing the two AFs up on merit alone. The superiority of PAF pilots has long been brandished as a way of appeasing the masses i.e. "look, yes they are bigger and better equipped but it counts for nothing because our pilots are xyz and thus better".

 

[Chanakyaa]

There is little empirical data to back up such claims, mostly ideological falsehoods (i.e. one Pakistani= 15 Indians and such). There might (and I stress might) have been a time when this made sense because the IAF was training in complete isolation whilst the PAF was being trained by and with Western/NATO nations and thus it was very easy to see how the PAF stacked up against some of the eminent AFs (usually very respectably). However any such hopes have since been dashed as the IAF has started opening up and having their own exercises with the West and this has opened the world's eyes that the IAF has some of the best pilots themselves despite their former isolation. This is all very speculative in nature, when it comes down to tangible advantages it has to be said that it is advantage India as far as training infrastructure is concerned across the board (trainers, simulators and flight hours). Flight training is inherently an expensive business and will, thus, always benefit the better funded AF and so it may actually lead to the IAF further pulling away from the PAF as time goes by on this front or it will remain about equal but there is no reason to think that IAF pilots are somehow inferior to their neighbours in the PAF (as many here on PDF often like to claim).

But I would add it is only the ignorant who cling to such notions, the enlightened and professionals have no issue in sidelining such nonsense and weighing the two AFs up on merit alone. The superiority of PAF pilots has long been brandished as a way of appeasing the masses i.e. "look, yes they are bigger and better equipped but it counts for nothing because our pilots are xyz and thus better".

Well, well... why am i not surprised on YOUR reply..... ? where are my PAF Friends now ?
@Windjammer , @JonAsad , @Arees , @Zarwan .. Yar Koi to Data Analysis karo..

Talking specifically about IAF ( Excuse me.. i mean Israeli AF in this sentence ) They had extensive plans on how to maximize air assets, during Arab Israeli War.

Chest thumping aside, can we talk on relative data comparison ? .. without which.. and with "my friends.. uncle's ..nephew says.. blah blah.." the discussion leads no where.

 

[Darth Vader]

flying an aircraft thousands of feet high where you twirl a joystick and press a button after lock-on, to fire off some BVR missiles! Heck, you don't even see your enemy most of the time except on radar, if you're lucky.

Playing Alot Video games arent we ? if it was that easy My friend than why nations spend billion of dollars training their soldiers

i bet you wont even go above 5 =))

 

[Darth Vader]

As a active personal in RNOAF you must know what MLUed F-16s are capable of, in today's modern warfare, would you like to share that here so the Indians can get a glimpse what Falcons are capable of, they think every thing IAF has can beat F-16s.

For those who think that only India have LR-Radars and can see in Pakistan, then try to Google the capabilities Pakistan had since 80s, we were superior in this field in those times and had this capability since 80s thanks to Uncle Sam.
.

Leme Sum it up for you Mlu upgrades gave f 16 a extra boost, F 16 can go head to head anything what iaf currently have but you cant say for 100 % who will be flying back home , mostly on pdf users compare planes with each other they only count , rcs , radars ,and range of the weapon systems that plane caries , but in the real word unicorns dont exist, cz when you are in g suit even a blink of eye can change every thing most of these things doesnt matter because pak and india they arent that far from each others and if paf and iaf go head to head that will be mostly dog fight not a bvr battle. so its up to the people who are in these birds

 

[Harisudan]

To all who created a separate thread and Gave it the Name "Do or Die" and fired a multitude of Ignorant rants, First of all I would Like to say that, I came PDF expecting a reasonable competitive discussion and in turn got this...
Like those who are getting super sentimental on my comments, pls spare few seconds and take it from a neutral point of view..I said what is true comparing the build up of the forces in both sides keeping the skills of the forces equal..
And here is what the responses are..
I wonder what could have been the response from these People when Pakistan holds superiority in terms of Fighter numbers and equipments..
Fact is always a fact, irrespective of the anything else, and the fact is that, the indian forces holds superiority in terms of airwarfare and other equipments in place..And I've never underestimated the quality of training PAF holds or made any remarks as such..A soldier is always a soldier and he is always a man of honour and respect whichever sides of the border he is from..
And a humble request to all..Pls don't quote me anymore here...

 

[TheNoob]

Playing Alot Video games arent we ? if it was that easy My friend than why nations spend billion of dollars training their soldiers

i bet you wont even go above 5 =))

Eh, He was pointing out the BVR tech...

 

[Windjammer]

Well, well... why am i not surprised on YOUR reply..... ? where are my PAF Friends now ?
@Windjammer , @JonAsad , @Arees , @Zarwan .. Yar Koi to Data Analysis karo..

Talking specifically about IAF ( Excuse me.. i mean Israeli AF in this sentence ) They had extensive plans on how to maximize air assets, during Arab Israeli War.

Chest thumping aside, can we talk on relative data comparison ? .. without which.. and with "my friends.. uncle's ..nephew says.. blah blah.." the discussion leads no where.

We are all right here unlike some fan boy material.
Training and exercises are indeed an essential part of being combat ready but at the same time, remember, boards don't hit back.... in exercise a pilot can spend all the time over target without fear of getting shot down, one reason why terms like battle hardened pilots is used for the likes of Israelis. One could argue apart from ad-hoc missions during the Kargil conflict, without any fear of opposition, when was the last time the IAF fired in anger, on the contrary PAF has been engaged in conflict for last couple of decades, firstly against Afghan/Soviet forces resulting in several aerial battles and victories for the PAF and more recently it's daily missions in WOT campaign like the one today.
Jet fighters kill 15 suspected militants in Khyber - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
And not forgetting that PAF has not been idle as far as joint exercises are concerned either and achieving much more favourable results than the IAF.
As for giving reference is concerned, i guess it's still more meaningful than just starting a thread to praise some one for their one post.

 

[Darth Vader]

Eh, He was pointing out the BVR tech...

nop he was being disrespectful

 

[Kompromat]

PAF will be wiped out in 4 days, hell yea!

 

[Chanakyaa]

We are all right here unlike some fan boy material.
Training and exercises are indeed an essential part of being combat ready but at the same time, remember, boards don't hit back.... in exercise a pilot can spend all the time over target without fear of getting shot down, one reason why terms like battle hardened pilots is used for the likes of Israelis. One could argue apart from ad-hoc missions during the Kargil conflict, without any fear of opposition, when was the last time the IAF fired in anger, on the contrary PAF has been engaged in conflict for last couple of decades, firstly against Afghan/Soviet forces resulting in several aerial battles and victories for the PAF and more recently it's daily missions in WOT campaign like the one today.
Jet fighters kill 15 suspected militants in Khyber - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
And not forgetting that PAF has not been idle as far as joint exercises are concerned either and achieving much more favourable results than the IAF.
As for giving reference is concerned, i guess it's still more meaningful than just starting a thread to praise some one for their one post.

The Underlined part is the only needle in the hay.
Good Points.

However, My Question stands apart. How do we compare IAF and PAF on the basis of :

- AWACS
- Ground Staff Training
- Availability of Machines
- Combat Tactics
- Know how of the Adversary
- Exercises

and other real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.

 

[sms]

The Underlined part is the only needle in the hay.
Good Points.

However, My Question stands apart. How do we compare IAF and PAF on the basis of :

- AWACS
- Ground Staff Training
- Availability of Machines
- Combat Tactics
- Know how of the Adversary
- Exercises

and other real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.

This very thread a product of mere chest thumping. I'd be pleasently surprised if OP who claims the supriority based on Blah blah balah will post somthing objective and compairable. Till then I've no other opion but to trust words from our AF man Mr. @Harisudan

Fingers are crossed. Let's wait for Mr @Windjammer to reply.

Question stands apart. How do we compare IAF and PAF on the basis of :

- AWACS
- Ground Staff Training
- Availability of Machines
- Combat Tactics
- Know how of the Adversary
- Exercises

and other real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.


Source: Do or die....open questions to the IAF pilot | Page 6

 

[Windjammer]

This very thread a product of mere chest thumping. I'd be pleasently surprised if OP who claims the supriority based on Blah blah balah will post somthing objective and compairable. Till then I've no other opion but to trust words from our AF man Mr. @Harisudan

Fingers are crossed. Let's wait for Mr @Windjammer to reply.

Question stands apart. How do we compare IAF and PAF on the basis of :

- AWACS
- Ground Staff Training
- Availability of Machines
- Combat Tactics
- Know how of the Adversary
- Exercises

and other real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.


Source: Do or die....open questions to the IAF pilot | Page 6

@sms, ''real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.''
at least i am not the one who claims to have access to CCTV footage from Indian bases, nor do i dream of seeing IAF add more pollution in the Ganges within a week.....or talk of India not needing wood for any pyres.....but then that floats the boat for a certain community.....what to say of chest thumping.

 

[Iggy]

@sms, ''real parameters which are simply NOT under the domain of chest thumping.''
at least i am not the one who claims to have access to CCTV footage from Indian bases, nor do i dream of seeing IAF add more pollution in the Ganges within a week.....or talk of India not needing wood for any pyres.....but then that floats the boat for a certain community.....what to say of chest thumping.

You should ask your contact.. May be he will help you access the CCTV footage.. No one can match you when it comes to claims.. Like the below

PAF boasting on what happened when a flight of Fulcrums jinxed and quickly exited the scene once they were made aware of Falcons presence by the Indian ground controller otherwise the IAF pilots were completely unaware of the Falcons trailing them.

 

[halupridol]

You should ask your contact.. May be he will help you access the CCTV footage.. No one can match you when it comes to claims.. Like the below

hahaha
do or die

 

[Abingdonboy]

on the contrary PAF has been engaged in conflict for last couple of decades, firstly against Afghan/Soviet forces resulting in several aerial battles and victories for the PAF and more recently it's daily missions in WOT campaign like the one today.

I'm sorry but if you are (for your own nonsensical reasons) discounting the IAF's participation in Kargil then you can't possibly claim the airstrikes in Pakistan's so-called "WOT" is adding that much "battle hardening" to the PAF- the pilots are flying within their own airspace, fighting an enemy with absolutely no AA capability and are effectively acting as bomb trucks.