in a future conflict with india will pakistans lack of Naval assests cost it defeat?

[danger007]

My friend, you wont find the entire fleet at port to simply come, attack and go.
Navy has 71 vessels, MKI cannot carry 71 anti-ship missiles.
Return fire? On board cannons, surface SAM batteries and jets stationed in Karachi for the express purpose of Naval Air Support.


Your limited analysis of the situation is disturbing.

we don't need to sunk entire PN.. I would like to know SAM cover for PN flotilla and other defence ...

 

[Icarus]

we don't need to sunk entire PN.. I would like to know SAM cover for PN flotilla and other defence ...

Indeed, which is why I sought to refute the other member's whimsical statement that Two MKIs with full load can sink the ENTIRE fleet.

As for flotilla defenses, besides fixed batteries, PAF operates a squadron of aircraft that are armed with Anti-Ship and Anti-Aircraft armament and are stationed to engage targets over the sea, there are also mobile SAM batteries as well as naval recon planes with anti-submarine capabilities.

 

[GURU DUTT]

My friend, you wont find the entire fleet at port to simply come, attack and go.
Navy has 71 vessels, MKI cannot carry 71 anti-ship missiles.
Return fire? On board cannons, surface SAM batteries and jets stationed in Karachi for the express purpose of Naval Air Support.


Your limited analysis of the situation is disturbing.

well the all deu respect to "PDF Think Tank : consultant" SIR in time of war we dont need to squash the whole PN surface fleets but the major surface vesseles onli or so called "Pride of PN" = just squash the head of the snake and the snake will die

look at it this way we can very easli send a squad of which 16 will take care of engaging and destroying the anty aircraft structure (or confeusing it while 2 wich can carry at least 10 ASMs each @ 2 X 10=20 ASM ) will give such a sevear blow to PN that PN will acsept defeat

while remaining 6 squads of Mki will take care of PAF while naval jags and M2K do the strike role in cosatl pakistan & Mig 29 will be for air interception and like jobs


last but not the least there will be at least 8 sea herriers and 18 Mig 29Ks to make a no fly zone in costal pakistan

tell me what and how will PN & PAF combo will defuse such a crisis cause in war we will use all 126(18X7) Mkis against your combo not ust two

 

[Icarus]

Oh shush princess! don't be so disturbed by a harsh truth.
Just because I say something can happen does not necessarily mean that it will happen.
Capiche ?Cuz We have more than 2 MKIs you know ?

Now you come to my point, you were pulling statements out of thin air and I pointed it out.

And please don't count Fast attack crafts, Minesweepers,Auxillary vessels et al as targets for MKIs.
They are small fry, not even worthy of being attacked by the MKIs.
Remind me again how many Capital ships does PN have ?

Keep reminding yourself that.

 

[Icarus]

well the all deu respect to "PDF Think Tank : consultant" SIR in time of war we dont need to squash the whole PN surface fleets but the major surface vesseles onli or so called "Pride of PN" = just squash the head of the snake and the snake will die

look at it this way we can very easli send a squad of which 16 will take care of engaging and destroying the anty aircraft structure (or confeusing it while 2 wich can carry at least 10 ASMs each @ 2 X 10=20 ASM ) will give such a sevear blow to PN that PN will acsept defeat

while remaining 6 squads of Mki will take care of PAF while naval jags and M2K do the strike role in cosatl pakistan & Mig 29 will be for air interception and like jobs


last but not the least there will be at least 8 sea herriers and 18 Mig 29Ks to make a no fly zone in costal pakistan

tell me what and how will PN & PAF combo will defuse such a crisis cause in war we will use all 126(18X7) Mkis against your combo not ust two

Instead of being sassy with me, it would suit you better to read through the conversation to have fair idea about the context of our discussion: in a future conflict with india will pakistans lack of Naval assests cost it defeat? | Page 12

I am already well aware of ground realities, its your own boy there who was making such a baseless statement that I simply refuted through simple numbers.

 

[Windjammer]

2, yes two, fully armed MKIs are enough to sink whole PN surface fleet

Well likewise a well placed sea skimmer will turn your aircraft carrier into coral reef....... but when the other side can also shoot back, such scenarios look good on paper as does the MKI.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Instead of being sassy with me, it would suit you better to read through the conversation to have fair idea about the context of our discussion: in a future conflict with india will pakistans lack of Naval assests cost it defeat? | Page 12

I am already well aware of ground realities, its your own boy there who was making such a baseless statement that I simply refuted through simple numbers.

galti ho gayee sirji bachhe se thora jyada hi bongiya maar gaya tha wo

 

[Didact]

There is a lot being talked about the naval economic blockade being imposed by IN over Pakistan, and the subsequent possibility/probability of the endeavour being successful. I'll just provide my understanding of the Naval blockade .

The imposition of the naval blockade by the IN will be a combination of three distinct actions:

1. Announcement of the blockade: The announcement of the blockade will in itself set off a chain of adverse effects for the Pakistan govt. The ships belonging to neutral shipping corporations/disinterested parties will almost immediately avoid sailing Pakistan, (and to Mumbai harbour I imagine).

That leaves the Pakistan merchant fleet and the ships from "friendly" countries who'd risk their ships breaking Indian blockade. A quick search of the wikipedia reveals Pak Merchanct Navy having just 9 vessels. No atter how I look at it, without aggressive and risky support from friendly nations, the Pakistan Merchant fleet cannot keep up supplies through the IN blockade.

That's stage one, and even without IN active involvement the supply lines have already been stretched taut.

2. The destruction of vital port infrastructure: The next action would logically be destruction/crippling of Pakistani port infrastructure. The key targets for this would obviously include the loading/unloading cranes, the fuel storage facilities and other allied assets, if not the destruction of the berthing facilities.

Pak has just 3 major harbours for large ships, if my knowledge serves me right. It is not unbelievable that IN would be successful in destroying/damaging the operations of the ports. Such destruction would cripple the ability to unload the supplies arriving, achieving the same effect as chocking the supply lines.

This sounds all the more plausible given the weak SAM coverage over Pak airspace.

3. The actual physical blockade by IN ships enforcing the blockade with a forceful posture, some 200 kms outside PN shores: The new carrier(s) and their associated fighters will provide adequate protection against naval maritime strike aircraft, though coverage against SSKs will reduce considerably as the IN ships move further away from Indian shores towards Gwadar, which is also where I'd assume the PN sub fleet would have the highest chance of success in breaching the IN blockade.

 

[danger007]

Indeed, which is why I sought to refute the other member's whimsical statement that Two MKIs with full load can sink the ENTIRE fleet.

As for flotilla defenses, besides fixed batteries, PAF operates a squadron of aircraft that are armed with Anti-Ship and Anti-Aircraft armament and are stationed to engage targets over the sea, there are also mobile SAM batteries as well as naval recon planes with anti-submarine capabilities.

agreed on 2 Mki part... but we got 45 Mig 29 and 40+ naval variant LCA(on order) vs sq Mirages.... can PAF dedicate squadron for navy, can PAF face IAF after splitting its fleet??? but IAF can afford .... India placed 40MKI for this role...

Well likewise a well placed sea skimmer will turn your aircraft carrier into coral reef....... but when the other side can also shoot back, such scenarios look good on paper as does the MKI.

do you really think sea skimmer will tear AC just like that and AC is defenseless ???? DO you know range of Exocet???? do you think impact of exocet can sunk an AC...

 

[SQ8]

Unless PN or PAF commits an Erieye or equivalent, there is almost no chance for the PN to detect, let alone track, an IN warship.

This is the reason that the initial pre-purchase.. and post purchase operational trials of the ZDK-03 system were carried out on the coast. The results reportedly were quite satisfying for the PAF , while the aircraft is going to be based at Masroor AFB.

 

[Windjammer]

do you really think sea skimmer will tear AC just like that and AC is defenseless ???? DO you know range of Exocet???? do you think impact of exocet can sunk an AC...

Exocet is not the only sea skimmer in Pakistan Naval inventory and it all depends where you strike the target.. Carriers carry thousands of gallons of aviation fuel as well as tons of ammunitions, a direct hit in a sensitive area could take one out.

 

[danger007]

Exocet is not the only sea skimmer in Pakistan Naval inventory and it all depends where you strike the target.. Carriers carry thousands of gallons of aviation fuel as well as tons of ammunitions, a direct hit in a sensitive area could take one out.

again wishful thinking. .Please mention other type of sea skimming missiles and their range..

 

[Contrarian]

Indeed, which is why I sought to refute the other member's whimsical statement that Two MKIs with full load can sink the ENTIRE fleet.

As for flotilla defenses, besides fixed batteries, PAF operates a squadron of aircraft that are armed with Anti-Ship and Anti-Aircraft armament and are stationed to engage targets over the sea, there are also mobile SAM batteries as well as naval recon planes with anti-submarine capabilities.

You do know that those coastal C-80x batteries are next to useless for a blockade dont you?
No ship need come within 300 kms range of Pakistanis shores to impose a blockade.
Secondly, they are likely to be bombed first thing by India when a war starts if India wants to do exactly what those batteries are there to prevent - a flank.

You dont have a half decent modern SAM system to speak of. The HQ series is only placed for a couple of areas and the SPADA system is limited in numbers and is also short range SAM system. Limited by its use, its meant to be a last defense against missiles for those that streak through a large air defense system.

 

[Windjammer]

again wishful thinking. .

Since you are running around in circles, let me highlight my previous post and see if you can make effort to come out of the loop..!!!

Well likewise a well placed sea skimmer will turn your aircraft carrier into coral reef....... but when the other side can also shoot back, such scenarios look good on paper as does the MKI.

 

[Basel]

I certainly doubt it. While there are PAF pilots who have on deputation flown both Su-27Sk, J-11 and Su-30 variants. There are not enough to form a squadron and the Chinese will not lend the equipment.
Take that back, twirp is a dual ID.

China since long have provided much more then that so it will not be a problem for them to provide those flankers.

If China is ready to provide their ships Type-54s with drawing them from PLAN service just on the request of Pakistan then trust me flanker is no big deal.