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Hinduvata Leaders and their BS

Please do put forth the evidence which points to "extremists" being involved in "ethnic/religious cleansing" in Gujarat? Apparently the Indian population does not know something which you do.

Don't mix Ethnic cleansing with Religous cleaning, its quiet an evasive logic on your part. The Indian population is well aware of actions done by people like Narendra Modi who i would say shared the responsibility for the deaths of many in the Gujrat riots and i am not holding the people of India responsible for it either, i am merely pointing out the flaws in your judiciary system that allows a guy like him to roam freely even with the ample amount of evidence shown via your very own media and tv reports. I am not going to bother putting up links of your journalists or tv reporters reporting on this issue as they are abudntely available both on these forums as well as the internet.

It was a religious riot, and though I do not condone such gruesome atrocities, they do sometimes happen in a diverse country as India. There is no doubt that outrageous atrocities were committed by both the religious groups. When you incite a mob, there's no telling as to what its gonna do. Its the proverbial 'who will bell the cat' scenario when a mob is incited. Mobs committed atrocities and those responsible will face the sweet music of justice.

I agree with you all the way, but when people are in power and are responsible for its citizens they should have a rather neutral approach rather than favourtism. Choosing one sect over the other by government officials and law enforcement agencies isn't something new in India.

But the show of apparent 'solidarity' with only Indian Muslims epitomizes hypocrisy. When your fellow followers of the Book are slaughtered else where no one raises a even a squeak of protest - eg Iran or even recently in China. Why? Got an explanation for that? So, its an atrocity only when Muslims die at the hands of 'Kafirs'? And its alright for Muslims to kill Kafirs or for that matter the more purer followers to kill tainted or lesser followers? Somehow I don't agree with all that kinda crap.

First of all i don't take sides since i am not a religous person, i look at it as human life lost be it Muslims, Hindus or anyone. There is no such thing as my 'fellow book followers' as i believe in no such thing but when i see one sect of people killing another sect of people than you can draw disctinctions of whos killing who and why, as was the case in Gujrat where more than 700 muslims and around 240 innocent hindus were slaughtered, the sheer difference in numbers is quiet astounding. But this comparison is not between numbers as killing ANYONE is degrading to humanity in general, my Grudge is simply against the Authorities who have failed miserably time, time again to resolve simple conflicts which further leads to political violence which the government itself later can not stop.

Now as far as you accusing me of having a double standard when it comes to 'kafirs'(i my self happen to be one as well) killing muslims is concerned let me tell you that I am THE only person on this forum who has been squeaking about Darfur for God knows how long since Muslims blame Israel for all their wrong doings and not blame those Arab tribes who are commiting a True Genocide. I have gone as far as to create awareness and raise close to seven thousand dollars which we donated to the United Nations convoy who were heading there for further humanitarian assistance so you might use this accusation on someone else.

Nontheless thats not the point, I can discuss the same scenario that happened when two Dalits were beaten like a boxing bag by tube lights, stones, bricks, sticks ironically outside a Law school where the Police just stood there and watched. The point of this thread is that your law enforcement agencies need to pull up their socks when it comes to protecting minority rights be it sikhs, Dalits, christians or any other sect, and India has failed on many occasions to provide some level of security to its diverse minority group

Cheers
Harris
 
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Hi Harris,

Very balanced post my friend.

That said, please help me out here with some demographic data from your country if possible.

(1) What percentage of the total Pakistani population are practicing Hindus?

(2) What percentage of the total Pakistani population are practicing Sikhs?

(3) What percentage of the total Pakistani population are practicing Christians?

(4) What percentage of total pakistan population practice "other faiths" - Buddhist, Jains, Parsis, etc.

Since we are both "minorities" in our respective countries, I think we can have a decent one-on-one debate about the state of minorities in both our countries, instead of only hurling "You Muslim .... You Hindu" accusations at each other.

Are you game? :)

Cheers, Doc
 
u talki self respect dont take the word self respect we have seen self respect which india gave to muslims and law in pakistan is better than india what going to happen with mushy u will soon see and give me example in which any minorities attacked in pakistan i know u cant give me so stop dreaming man and dont tell me talibans they are muslims too but bad muslims we are fighting with them to save humanity but what u are doing to bajrangi nothing
 
Religious Tolerance in Pakistan

Pakistani Blasphemy Law

An old blasphemy law, which was written in 1927 during during colonial days, banned insults directed against any religion. In 1986, dictator General Zia-Ul Haw modified the law to protect only Islam. The law require a life imprisonment or a life sentence for anyone who defiled the name of Muhammad or committed other blasphemy. In 1990, a religious court ruled that the penalty for crimes under the law (Section 295-C of the country's Constitution) is execution. 6 The law states: "Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by inputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly defiles the sacred name of the Holy prophet Mohammed...shall be punished with death and shall be liable to a fine." The law is being used in Pakistan to discriminate against religious minorities: largely Christians, and Ahmadis. Under the present law, a Muslim may blaspheme Christianity with impunity. But a Christian doing the same against Islam can theoretically be executed.

Iqbal Haider, then the Law Minister, urged reform of the blasphemy law because several individuals had been falsely accused. There was a suspicion that the motivations of their accusers was to settle old scores or to intimidate others. In response, some extreme Fundamentalist Muslim leaders put a price of $40,000 on Haider's head.

On 1994-JUL-28, Amnesty International urged prime minister, Benazir Bhutto to change the law because it was being used to terrorize religious minorities. 4 The AI press release stated: "Pakistan's blasphemy laws are so vaguely formulated that they encourage, and in fact invite, the persecution of religious minorities or non-conforming members of [the] Muslim majority."

Benazir Bhutto attempted to change the law, but was unsuccessful. She did direct all district magistrates to release any accused persons under this law until their case had first been investigated. A subsequent prime minister, Nawaz Sharif won two thirds of the seats in parliament in 1997-JAN with strong support from Muslim religious fundamentalists. His government has reversed the ruling of the former prime minister. Individuals are now being arrested for blasphemy, and held without bail, while their cases are being investigated. No Christian charged with this crime has every been granted bail. 1

The government is considering appending to the blasphemy law an amendment that will provide heavy penalties in the event of false accusations.

As of mid-2002, only the testimony of a single Muslim is sufficient to prosecute a non-Muslim on blasphemy charges. 18

Ayub Masih, a Christian, was convicted of blasphemy and sentenced to death in 1998. He was accused by a neighbor of stating that he supported British writer, Salman Rushdie, author of "The Satanic Verses." Lower appeals courts upheld the conviction. However, before the Pakistan Supreme Court, his lawyer was able to prove that the accuser had used the conviction to force Mashi's family off their land and then acquired control of the property. Masih has been released.

Source: RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE IN PAKISTAN
 
Islamic Unity - I

Persecution of Ahmadi Muslims:

The vast majority of Pakistanis are either Shi'a or Suni Muslims. Two of their foundational beliefs are that Muhammad was the last and greatest of the prophets, and that the Messiah is expected sometime in the future. However, followers of the Ahmadiyya Movement believe that God sent Ahmad to be that Messiah, "a messenger of His in this age who has claimed to have come in the spirit and power of Jesus Christ. He has come to call all people around one Faith, i.e. Islam..." While followers of Ahmadi consider themselves to be a part of Islam, Shi'a and Suni Muslims disagree; they consider Ahmadis to be guilty of apostasy, to be non-Islamic. (11)

The movement's founder was Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908). He was born in Qadian, India. He felt that he had a mandate from God to correct a serious error within Christianity. Most Christians believe that Jesus is a member of the Godhead. "...because Jesus, whom God sent as a Messiah to the Israelites was taken for a God, Divine jealousy ordained that another man [Ahmad] should be sent as Messiah so that the world may know that the first Messiah was nothing more than a weak mortal."

After his death, the community elected a series of Khalifas (successors). The current and "Fourth Successor (Khalifatul Masih IV), to the Promised Messiah was chosen in the person of Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad" on 1982-JUN-10. The Ahmadiyya Community currently has more than 10 million members worldwide.

Probably the most famous Ahmadi from Pakistan was Dr. Abdus Salam (1926-1996). He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979 for his theoretical work on the unification of two fundamental forces of nature. (12)

The Pakistani government supported the expulsion of Ahmadis from Islam with legislation: "In 1974, the National Assembly of Pakistan approved the Second Amendment to the Constitution literally excommunicating Ahmadi Muslims and banishing them from the fold of Islam...In 1984, General Zia-ul Haq, promulgated Martial Law Ordinance XX...branding Ahmadis as criminals liable to fine and imprisonment if they practiced their belief in Islam, used Islamic terms or posed as Muslims." (6) The punishment is up to 3 year in jail and a fine.

In 1993 the Supreme Court of Pakistan heard a case by a number of Ahmadis who asserted that they were being deprived of their religious rights and freedoms, as guaranteed under Article 20 of the constitution. The appeal was rejected. The court felt that granting the Ahmadis equal rights would be against public order. They said that Shi'a or Suni Muslims, who vastly outnumber the Ahmadis, consider the "movement ideologically offensive." 6 The majority opinion of the court stated that many Islamic phrases were, in effect, copyrighted trademarks of the Islamic faith. Thus the use of these phrases by Ahmadis was a form of copyright infringement; it violated the Trademark Act of 1940. They also found that Ahamdis were committing blasphemy when they spoke or wrote specific Islamic phrases.

One of the main purposes of a country's constitution is to protect the majority from terrorizing and discriminating against minorities. However, there are limits beyond which minorities cannot go. Apparently, the Supreme Court of Pakistan valued public peace for the majority over freedom for a religious minority. The U.S. Lawyer's Committee for Human Rights stated: "...to sanction Ordinance XX and its discriminatory impact and religious restrictions is to violate a fundamental and universally recognized standard of human rights." 7 Honourable Jules Deschenes, a Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada commented: "20 years have elapsed since the Second Constitutional amendment and 10 years since the promulgation of Ordinance XX; yet those unfortunate provisions are still in force and continue to breed their nefarious results, as can be seen from the above-mentioned recent judgment of the Supreme Court of Pakistan" 8

A sampling of persecution during the 1990's include:

Rashood Ahmad of Sangahr was found guilty of displaying a verse from the Koran on his wall. He was given a sentence of 2 years in prison and a fine of about US$166.
Five journalists of the Ahmadi daily newspaper Al Fazal were charged under the blasphemy law, Section 298(c). This was in response to complaints that they had propagated their faith and passed themselves off as Muslims.
The Rawalpindi Development Authority demolished a 40 year old Ahmadi center in Rawalpindi. The government stated that the land had been illegally converted to a place of worship.
Numerous Ahamdis have been murdered for their religious beliefs.

Source: RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE IN PAKISTAN
 
Dear Harris, this one is for you my friend.

Persecution of Christians:

The Bishop of Lahore, Alexander John Malik, said that the blasphemy law "is a tool for religious cleansing." Some disturbing recent developments include:

In 1997-DEC, Reverend Dr. George Carey, the Archbishop of Canterbury, is believed to have urged government officials to amend the law. Some Pakistani Islamic organizations were outraged and demanded an apology from the Archbishop.
A trial on 1998-MAY in Sahiwal Town, Punjab, has generated a great deal of anger among the Christian minority. Mr. Ayub Masih, 34, a Christian laborer, returned to his village in rural Punjab and applied for a house lot under a government program. He was accused of blasphemy, of insulting the Prophet Mohammed, and of promoting the writings of Salman Rushdie. He allegedly praised Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses," in a private conversation with a Christian neighbor. He was jailed and refused bail. He was unable to find a lawyer to represent him. At his trial, he was fined 100,000 rupees (about US $2,100) and sentenced to be executed. All of the Christians in his village have fled. Their homes have been seized. He has appealed his conviction, but the process might take may years. During 2002-FEB, a two-judge panel ruled that his case should be reviewed because of prosecutorial errors. He will probability be eventually released, because no appellate court has yet upheld the death sentence.
Two Christians, jailed on suspicion of blasphemy, have died in police custody.
Roman Catholic Bishop John Joseph led a protest march on 1998-MAY-6 to the courthouse where Mashi's trial took place. He gave a speech asking for peace and unity between Muslims and Christians. He then committed suicide, apparently an act of protest. 2
One day later, Raja Zafarul Haq, the Minister for Religious Affairs, said that the blasphemy law does not discriminate against persons of any faith; it is not against any religion. 3

The government is considering appending to the blasphemy law an amendment that will provide heavy penalties in the event of false accusations. Bishop Malik commented: "I think the government is quite willing to listen to us. It is the extreme mullahs who are making trouble."

Source: RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE IN PAKISTAN
 
Islamic Unity - II

Random, mutual extermination of Shiite and Sunni Muslims:

Random acts of violence have occurred in Pakistan for many years between Shiite and Sunni Muslims. These often take the form of unprovoked attacks on peaceful Muslims at prayer. After a horrendous murder spree on 2003-JUL-5, the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) issued a news release titled: "Pakistan Bombing: A Wake-Up Call for Muslims:"

The suicide bombing in Quetta, Pakistan, Friday, that killed dozens of Shiite Muslim worshipers and injured about 65, should be condemned by all who believe in God and human decency.

It adds to the outrage that those misguided individuals violated the sanctity of human life that God made sacred, and desecrated the sanctity of a place of worship.

This terrible crime illustrates the depth of misunderstanding and confusion that has darkened those who claim belonging to Islam. Beyond mere condemnation, MPAC is urgently calling on all conscious and educated Muslims to expose the root of the malignant ideas that would lead Muslims to undertake such terrible acts of sectarian violence. These ideas and subsequent actions endanger and offend the basic principles of Islam, which are mercy, justice, freedom, and human dignity.

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught that whoever is silent regarding the truth is equal to a devil. This hadith (saying of the Prophet) is echoed in a well-known modern saying, "all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to remain silent." We call on Muslim intellectuals to initiate a robust debate around this issue. MPAC will contribute to this debate and will publish the discourse through our channels of communication.

Points of Discussion and Reflection about the Quetta Bombing for Muslims:

This crime is not one crime, but several crimes (according to Islam) at once, including suicide, mass murder, desecration of a holy place of worship, spreading corruption, destruction on earth and compromising the peace (in a country that was created as a sanctuary for Muslims) and further tarnishing the peaceful religion of Islam.
The culprits have also committed a crime discussed for centuries by Islamic scholars, known as "crimes of the heart". These crimes include hatred, cruelty, and sectarian fanaticism. (6:159)
Regardless of the history (sometimes deep) of sectarian strife in certain places or cultures, there is no escaping the fact that the mentality that can lead to the level fanaticism witnessed in Pakistan this past weekend is taught, not inherent to Islam or to Sunnis or Shiia.
Muslim intellectuals have been relatively reluctant to exert the effort needed to expose and isolate these poisonous teachings in detailed, specific terms complete with analysis and recommendations.
A major root cause of this type of fanaticism is one group or another believing that they alone hold the key to righteousness and that everyone else is wrong. One hadith (saying of the Prophet) in particular is often quoted, to the effect that "the Christians were divided into seventy-three sects and so Muslims will be divided into seventy-two sects. All of these sects are wrong except one. When the Prophet was asked which one is the 'one', he said it is the one that best follows his way." This hadith has two problems. This hadith is considered by scholars to be daif (weak), and as such, should not be used as an educational tool. Moreover, historically and logically, different groups have and do consider their way to be the 'one'. If this is the case for all groups, than the point becomes moot and therefore meaningless.
It is time for concerned Muslims: intellectuals, religious leaders, community leaders, et all, to head the various 'wake up calls' that have arisen since September 11. 14

Source: RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE IN PAKISTAN
 
Religious population in Pakistan
Pakistan religiosity
religion percent

Islam   96%
Hinduism   1.85%
Christianity   1.6%
Sikhism   .04%
Other   .51%

Muslims: 173,000,000
Sunni Muslims: 75%
Shia Muslims: 20%
Hindus: 3,200,000
Christians: 2,800,000
Ahmadis: 1,000,000
Bahá'ís: 30,000
Sikhs: 20,000
Buddhists: 20,000
Zoroastrian/Parsis: 20,000
Other (included Animists, Atheists, Jews, etc): unknown

Religions of India
Religion Population Percent
All religions 1,028,610,328 100.00%
Hindus 827,578,868 80.456%
Muslims 138,188,240 13.434%
Christians 24,080,016 2.341%
Sikhs 19,215,730 1.868%
Buddhists 7,955,207 0.773%
Jains 4,225,053 0.411%
Others 6,639,626 0.645%
Religion not stated 727,588 0.07%
 
The Religious Intolerance in Pakistan

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan remains one of the most glaring examples of religious intolerance in the world. General Parvez Musharraf’s military dictatorship, barely a year old, has done little to protect the civil and political rights of non-Muslim minorities. With the continuation of the Blasphemy Laws and the Hudood Ordinances, it is clear that governmental and legal structures elevate Sunni Islam over all other religious beliefs while sanctioning discrimination against non-Muslims and Shiite Muslims. Crimes against religious minorities such as Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis and Shiites persist while Sunni Muslim perpetrators face little or no consequences.

In addition to severely limiting freedom of speech and assembly, blasphemy laws alienate both moderate Muslims and non-Muslims. Section 295C of the Pakistan Penal Code imposes the death penalty on anyone found to have "by words . . . or visible representation . . . or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiled the name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad." In 1991, the maximum prison sentence for outraging the religious feelings of any group was raised from two to ten years. In 1992, Section 123A of the Penal Code was amended to declare any act prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan a criminal offence.

In July 2000, General Musharraf promulgated an order reviving the Islamic provisions of the country's constitution, further criminalising any person or group whose beliefs deviate from accepted Muslim orthodoxy. Such a stringent policy supported the arrest of scores of members of the Pakistan Muslim League (PML) prior to a rally planned for 8 July 2000. More recently, on 11 January 2001, 17 people were arrested for participating in an anti-"Blasphemy Laws" protest sponsored by the All Faith Spiritual Movement in Karachi. Though three Christian detainees were released six days later, the incident nonetheless demonstrates the methods of punishment and intimidation the government uses to attack the freedom of expression and assembly, particularly in relation to religious issues.

Like the blasphemy laws, the Hudood Ordinances require strict adherence to Muslim practices and blatantly discriminate against non-Muslims in a court of law. Criminalising extramarital sex, alcohol consumption and gambling, the Hudood Ordinances stipulate that a non-Muslim’s evidence is inadmissible in cases liable for Koranic punishment and carries less weight than that of a Muslim in cases liable for "secular punishment." Indeed, in the latter type of cases, the law of evidence specifies that two non-Muslim witnesses are needed in cases where one Muslim is sufficient. Lawyers who represent non-Muslims in cases under these provisions are themselves blacklisted by violent Islamic extremist groups.

Women have particularly suffered under the Hudood Ordinances, as they are frequently (and wrongfully) charged for sexual misconduct such as adultery. Approximately one-third of the women in jails in Lahore, Peshawar, and Mardan in 1998 awaited trial for adultery. Although most women tried under the ordinance are eventually acquitted, they must then endure the stigma of having been under suspicion.

Both the regimes of Prime Minister Sharif and General Musharraf have ignored the recommendations made in 1995 by the UN’s Special Rapporteur on Religious Intolerance. The Rapporteur advised that the Government "authorities should check that Hudood ordinances are compatible with human rights and urges that Hudood penalties, because they are exclusively Muslim, should not be applied to non-Muslims." Now, in fact, the Hudood Ordinances are stronger than ever.

Religious minorities are alienated and deprived of equal access to justice in other ways. For instance, if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim, the perpetrator may compensate the victim’s family monetarily. If a non-Muslim kills a Muslim, however, the perpetrator faces prison or the death penalty. Sharia courts are also inherently discriminatory against non-Muslims. The Federal Sharia Court (FSC) ensures that all legislative acts and judicial pronouncements, including those of the Supreme Court, are compatible with Islamic law. Additionally, three of the eight appointed members of the court need not even be professional judges. According to Asma Jehagir, Chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, the structure of the sharia courts is evidence that, "The government wants to impose a Taliban-style theocratic rule in Pakistan."

Another area of institutionalised discrimination relates to the electoral system. Minorities can only vote for candidates who do not represent districts or constituencies but whole populations of different minority groups spread across a wide region. Consequently, minority candidates do not represent the specific interests of minority groups. Discontent with the segregated electoral system is mounting. As recently as 19 October 2000, religious minority members of the Joint Action Committee for People’s Rights staged a hunger strike in Lahore. In solidarity with the strikers, Mr. Farooq Tarq, General Secretary of the Labour Party, denounced the separate electorate as "a scheme of religious apartheid that promoted intolerance and served the purpose of divide and rule."

Not surprisingly, religious minorities generally comprise the poorest sectors of society. As Peter Jacob, executive secretary of Pakistan’s National Committee for Justice and Peace, asserts, "Economic and political deprivation is not merely the bottom line but a clearly manifested motive of religious persecution." Most disturbing is the abundance of unpunished harassment and killings suffered by religious groups at the hands of the legal system and other members of the Sunni Muslim majority.

HARRIS BHAI THIS IS FOR YOU:

Out of a population of 2-3 million, tens of thousands of Pakistan’s Christians live in city slums while sixty percent of them live in rural areas, where they are particularly vulnerable to abuse. In these areas, according to Archbishop Simeon Pereira, who is the most senior representative of the Catholic Church in Pakistan, "Any Muslim who has a grudge against a Christian can accuse him of [blasphemy]. "Christians have definitely suffered under the blasphemy laws. In April 1998, Ayub Masih, a Christian man, was sentenced to death for allegedly speaking favourably about Salman Rushdie during a dispute with a Muslim villager. He was the fourth Christian to be sentenced to death in Pakistan in the 1990s. Unable to get Ayub released, Bishop Joseph, a widely respected non-violent activist for minority rights in Pakistan, shot himself in the head.

Churches have been vandalised by Islamic extremists and Christian villages have been looted and burned, leaving thousands homeless. There have also been shocking cases of rape and murder. On their way home from working at a factory, eight Christian women, seven of whom were teenagers, were raped at gunpoint by Muslim men in May 2000. In 1998, four Muslim men raped a seven-year-old Christian girl named Nageena. In both cases, the perpetrators have gone unpunished while the victims and their families have been threatened with facing the "consequences" if they seek justice. Accused by his daughter’s attackers, Ghulam Masih, Nageena’s father, was put on death row for allegedly killing an old woman in his village.

Besides Christians, other religious groups face cruel and inhumane treatment. Tens of thousands of Hindus serve as bonded labour to powerful landowners, and Hindu rights activists and community leaders are subject to harassment and arrest by the authorities.

ISLAMIC UNITY:

The Ahmadis, members of a Muslim sect created in the nineteenth century, are denied rights of expression. By law, they are classified as a non-Muslim minority and are thus forbidden to use Muslim burial grounds. Several Ahmadi mosques remain closed. As recently as 30 October 2000, gunmen opened fire on worshippers coming out of a crowded mosque in Khatiala village in Sialkot district, killing five people.

Tensions with Shiite Muslims also continue. In 1999, the U.S. State Department reported that 300 people were killed in Sunni and Shiite conflicts over the last two years. Sunni perpetrators of violence against Shiites are rarely prosecuted. The prosecutions that do take place precipitate further violence against Shiites as shown in January 1999 when, in response to the conviction of Sunni extremists, motorcycle gunmen opened fire upon a Shiite religious service in Karamdad Qureshi, killing at least sixteen people. Shiite militants are believed to be behind the recent killings of five Sunni Muslims in Karachi on 28 January 2001. The week before, a prominent Shiite Muslim cleric was shot dead outside a Karachi mosque.

Clearly, religious minorities in Pakistan are de facto second-class citizens. In addition to facing direct discrimination in laws such as the Blasphemy Laws and the Hudood Ordinances, in the courts and the electoral system, religious minorities face severe mistreatment from militant members of the Muslim majority. Musharraf’s regime has allowed religious intolerance to continue (some argue in order to maintain popular support), and, judging from the general’s suspension of democratic institutions in 1999 and the introduction of the perversely named National Accountability Bureau (NAB) Ordinance, the culture of governmental and Sunni Muslim impunity will worsen.

-Human Rights Features

source: The Religious Intolerance in Pakistan
 
I can go on, till Moderators here deem otherwise. But I think the point has been made to all Pakistanis like A1Kaid that

1) Pakistan does not hav e a minority worth speaking of. See the demographic figures of the 2 countries I have put up and see for yourself.

2) That minority that does still exist by the skin of their teeth, live a miserable secon-class citizen existence.

3) Muslims in India make up nearly 15% of our population ..... compare that to 4% ALL non-Muslims in Pakistan.

4) Muslims in India were the fastest growing demographic group (36%), versus less than 20% for the rest of the religious groups, over 10 years.

5) Yes there are religious riots and flare-ups in India from time to time ...... but EVERY Indian is a first-class citizen and enjoys the same LIBERTIES and RIGHTS and FREEDOMS guaranteed by the Govt. of India and our Judiciary and our Constitution.

Compare that dear Harris to what you guys have as your fate in Pakistan!

I am sure the statistics of the number of non-muslims who have converted to Islam over the last 60 years in pakistan, if available, would be most enlightening and informative to those of you here who like to speak of pakistan's "pampered minorities".

Cheers, Doc
 
u r talkin about zia which is an indian agent man dont play like this if even he made any law it never existed and no minorites get harmed
 
We do have difficulties with our justice delivery system. This is only one of the many.

But how concerned about justice, the Pakistani can be is really enlightening.

Sleep is when all the unsorted stuff comes flying out as from a dustbin upset in a high wind
William G. Golding
 
Some interesting FACTS about HINDUS in Pakistan .....

The Hindu population in Pakistan has reduced from 26%, in 1947, right down to 2% today ...... at the same time Muslims in India have increased to close to 150 million making India te second largest Muslim state after Indonesia.

Over 300 Hindu temples were destroyed in the early 1990s in Pakistan .... you guys keep harping on ONE Babri Masjid!

Now read the below ...... it should make it very clear who got the better deal at the time of Partition and who is the aggrieved party today:

It is notable that Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***) is virtually cleansed off of non-Muslims, with most driven to India. Had India followed similar policies, the Indian part of Kashmir wouldn’t have Muslim majority -- negating the need for self-determination. The role of Pakistan in its sponsorship of terrorism that has led to ethnic cleansing of almost all non-Muslims from the Kashmir valley is well established. Fundamentally, Islamic Pakistan could not indoctrinate and sponsor acts of "self determination" of Muslims in a secular India while ethnically cleansing Hindus and other non-Muslim minorities (to India) wherever it encounters them.

Thus, the Kashmir issue, originated in 1947, is intimately linked to ethnic cleansing of non-Muslim minorities by Pakistan since 1947. Therefore, the Kashmir problem could not be discussed, without at the same time addressing ethnic cleansing of non-Muslim minorities in the Indian subcontinent. Clearly, Pakistan must be made accountable.

When India was partitioned, an understanding had been reached between Indian and Pakistani leaders that minorities in their respective countries would not be forced out. But Pakistan violated this promise and ethnically cleansed almost all of its Hindu and Sikh population to India. These refugees had to leave behind their considerable properties virtually overnight for India.

In 1947, at the time of partition, the population figures were 330, 27 and 30 million people in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh respectively. In terms of area, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh constituted 1.3, 0.3 and 0.06 million square miles. Population percentages were 85%, 15% and land percentages were 75% and 25% for India and the united Pakistan (West and East Pakistan) respectively. Thus, India had to accommodate 85% of the population in 75% of the land. So, Pakistan got a much better land deal during the partition compared to India.

Let us now study this issue of ethnic cleansing. In 1947, Hindus constituted over 20% in Pakistan and 36% in Bangladesh. Now, they are less than 1% in Pakistan and about 8% in Bangladesh, thanks to Pakistan. While in India, the Muslim population has risen from about 10% in 1947 to about 15% today. On the other hand Pakistan drove away more than 20% of its Hindu and Sikh population from Pakistan and *** in 1947; also over 10% Hindus from Bangladesh in 1971.

Do only Kashmiri Muslims have the right to "self-determination" and join Pakistan along with the land? What about the human rights of non-Muslims and their descendants (the Kasmiri Pandits being the largest population) who have been ethnically cleansed out of Kashmir while losing their properties, including land? There is a vital human rights issue at stake -- the right of non-Muslims in the Indian sub-continent to have a secular land, where they feel secure and eventually prosper. That land can only be India as every Muslim majority area in the sub-continent has become virtually non-Muslim free due to ethnic cleansing and discriminatory Islamic laws.

Source: Making Pakistan Accountable
 
I would like to take this time to pay my respect and most heartfelt condolences to the victims of the Gujarat Genocide and Holocaust.


You will not be forgotten, I can only imagine the terror and horror you felt as the World stood idly by as you were facing oppression, brutality, and rapacious attacks. You were a defenseless people you were a innocent people.

I will never forget and forgive this attack on Muslims, InshAllah the opportunity will be granted to avenge these crimes as Allah wills.

I would specifically like to give my condolence to the pregnant Muslim woman who fell victim to one of the most heinous unimaginable crimes in human history...

Your death and tears will not be forgotten and the crimes against you will not be forgiven.


Inna lillahi wa inna illahi rajioon

Please dont forget to pay the same condolences to the victims of xinjiang as well...they need it more; and since you seem not in a mood to forgive and forget, do you have the courage to do something about it except some hollow words.
 
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