Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China

[BSF]

self delete

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Dear Chinese Members and Chinese nation

I understand you love your country and wish to protect your country and fight for it's ambitions and unity. Though I must say to my great allies and genuine friends that I have a legitimate concern and disagreement with you on the issue of E. Turkistan or the Chinese name given to it "Xinjiang".

I want to enlighten the fellow Chinese members on some history that I doubt their government would ever share with them.


In 1933 c.e. The Turkic Uyghurs with a political figure named Sabit Damolla declared independence and founded the Islamic Republic of East Turkistan. East Turkistan had formed an army in place, national institutions, and a national assembly (a legislative branch) after declaring independence.

In 1944 East Turkistan reaffirmed and re-declared it's independence as it struggled to get international recognition by members state who were hostile to any independent Muslim-Turkic states such as China, Russia, Iran, and Britain.


Two years later in 1946, the Chinese PLA invaded East Turkistan. The Chinese PLA where never there before or had any presence in East Turkistan. Chinese PLA eventually defeated the Turkic forces their, and captured and occupied the land from. The occupation today continues.


What is more disturbing is the Chinese have deliberately conducted Nuclear test in East Turkistan near civilian populations, causing the locals to have birth defects, genetic defects, diseases, radiation, and other dreadful pains.


What the Chinese must understand is the Uyghurs are not your people nor is East Turkistan your land it has never belonged to you, only on your state sponsored Communist maps (in regards to China) is East Turkistan truly considered an integral part of China.

Uyghurs are not Chinese or share Chinese heritage, they are a Turkic people who belong to the Turan not to the Chinese motherland. Their language is not Chinese they do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese they speak Turkic. Their culture is also different from yours. Let me reiterate, they are not your people and East Turkistan is not nor has ever been your land!

Today no Uyghur wishes to be apart of China, as a true Uyghur knows his ties and loyalties are with his Turkic and Muslim family. They are restricted to practice Islam freely, attend a Mosque freely, or to do their religious activities without Chinese government approval.


One final thing I would like to mention, is the Chinese are our dear strategic ally and friends, and as friends I strongly and respectfully disagree with you on "Xinjiang", East Turkistan being apart of China. It would be most beneficial to regional peace and security and mutually beneficial to our relationship that China set free East Turkistan.

Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.

Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic.

The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???

I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems".

THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Karma, nazi-hindu friends, Karma.

Right now you are showing utter LACK of compassion for the bloodshed and beating of these innocent people. That is the seed of karma you are planting in your soul. If you continue to nurture it with a disregard for human suffering (yes, Chinese people are humans too!) this seed will grow and soon overshadow and devour your spirit.

Believe in karma. Have good thoughts and do good deeds and good will come to you. However, have evil selfish uncaring thoughts and commit/support evil deeds then evil will befall you.

However you believe in KARMA or not, your existence is still bound by Karma. Karma is like one's shadow, you cannot grab hold of it in your hands but it exists because the person exists.

What an enlightening spiritual rant! Your emotional outburst at the Indian posters here is not justified, since no one here is actually supporting or enjoying the unfortunate incidents. Everyone is asking questions - and very relevant ones.

Let me ask my set of it.

1. Was it necessary for the police to use brutal force on a demonstration that was not so violent in its early stages? In other words, does the riot police actually know how to pacify a mob without inciting a violence?

2. How would a 'terrorist' sitting in US influence a mob so much that the entire town goes on a burning spree? If at all the mastermind sits in US, how did he get success of such a magnitude?

3. why is China experiencing a wave of unrest in 2009? Does it have something to do with communism & its imperialistic policies? Have a look at this article -
China seen facing wave of unrest in 2009 | U.S. | Reuters

"In 2009, Chinese society may face even more conflicts and clashes that will test even more the governing abilities of all levels of the Party and government."

This warning was given in early January. And you are watching with your own eyes what is going on.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Something interesting to know. Erasing Turkic history. I must say changing the name of localities to erase their historical belonging and trace of the domestic populace is a page that is also in Israeli occupational policy on Gaza and West Bank.


"During the last half-century, the national and historical names of the cities, towns, mountains, rivers, and lakes in East Turkistan have been replaced with Chinese words as follows (the first names show Chinese replacements and the bold second ones are the national names of the towns): A Ke Su (Aksu), A Ke Tao (Aktav), A Er Tai (Altay), A Tu Shi (Artuş), Ba Li Kuen (Ba Li Kuen), Yi Ning (Gulca), He Tian (Hoten), Ka Shi (Qaşghar), Fu Weng (Köktoqay), Ha Mi (Kumul), Tu Lu Fan (Turpan), Wu Lu Mu Qi (Urumchi), Wu Shi (Üchturpan), etc.

Chinese government maintains the argument that there are no Turkic peoples in Xinjiang (East Turkistan), but several minorities such as the Uyghurs and Qazaqs who have been intermingled with Chinese in early history. The history of this kind of official tendency is rather old in China and even goes back to the nationalist government of Kuomintang period. When several Chinese scholars have written articles based on similar claims, the national politician and scholar of East Turkistan, Mehmet Emin Bughra, has sternly rejected their unscientific arguments. One of the outstanding publications of that period is the book by Mehmet Emin Bugra, entitled "The Pen fight", published in 1944 (Urumchi)(3). The book includes several articles by the Chinese scholar Li Dong Fang who denies the essence of Turkic peoples in East Turkistan and the responses to them by Mehmet Emin Bughra."

Source: The Desperate Situation in East Turkestan and

Here is where you are wrong again. Different languages have different names for things. These Turkish people are more "CHINESE" than Turkish. Also, they are FOREIGNERS who invaded the land in the last millenium, thus their are FOREIGN. It is not different than Anglo-Saxons who invaded Australia and New Zealand. They gave Australia cities, towns, rivers, lakes, etc ENGLISH NAMES. Now that doesn't make it any more English or White land.

And you do know that Chinese does not have a single language don't you??? It's just the ORIGINAL AND OLDEST LANGUAGE also happens to be most WIDESPREAD. Also, don't try to throw Islam/Arabic into the discussion as these are RELATIVELY VERY RECENT developments and thus are not "original". In fact Hoton and other ancient Chinese cities have been there LONG BEFORE any Muslim or "turkish/whitish" FOREIGN group arrived.

Also please do not distract from this issue here: A pre-meditated terrorist act is underway. This is a crime against humans. Simple as that. When you use religion to support such a heinous crime doesn't help anyone.

 

[Ababeel]

Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.

Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic.

The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???

I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems".

THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.

When muslim army came to eastern Turkestan it was lead by Arab Commanders. Turks were there in there homeland at that time and not Hans.

 

[A1Kaid]

Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.

Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam. That is why the Taliban destroyed and vandalized the ancient groettos of Buddhist carved in mountain-side. I support all people, but when FOREIGNERS or certain religions seek to destroy and STEAL what is NOT theirs that is problematic.

The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents). If the ANCIENT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE THE FIRST INHABITANTS, then how can they be "stealing" what is rightfully theirs???

I'm sorry, but here is where I draw the line with Fundamental Religions of all kinds. I have no bias as I have no affiliation with any particular religion while at the same time I am educated with respect to numerous "belief systems".

THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste.

Here you are severely wrong. The land was FIRST occupied by Chinese people, cultivated by Chinese people. It wasn't until the FOREIGN turkish invaders came and later the Czar Russia fought to take land. So you are wrong on all major important accounts.

That is true according to Chinese state history...Let me inform you that Central Asia is the Turkic homeland Central Asia has always belongs to the Turks and East Turkistan is an integral part of Central Asia. The Turks have been there for thousands of years, they cultivated the land they raised the towns and gardens and civilization there. Your take on history is very uninformed and sketchy and how you assemble your historical events is bad as well.

Keep in mind that much of this part of the world was BUDDHIST before the 'invention' of Islam.

Besides your offensive remark calling Islam an "invention", let me inform you that Islam began when the first man Adam decided to obey Allah. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the Final Prophet which completed the message of Allah that is known as Islam today (Islam simply means submission to Allah). Submission to Allah did not begin when The Prophet arrived, it began when Adam first obeyed God.

"The silk-road was CREATED AND DEVELOPED by ancient Chinese. The Chinese are the world's OLDEST CIVILIZATION bar none, and it is them who have spread to much of the world (including SE Asia, South America aboriginals, North America natives are all Chinese descendents)."

Excuse me but wise up, the silk road is not an exclusive Chinese enterprise, the Silk road consisted of Arabs, Chinese, Turks, Persians, Indian Muslims (today Pakistanis) and more. It was a joint effort by the worlds civilizations. Also the Chinese are not the world's oldest civilization, historian strongly believe the Persians and Indus Valley Civilization (Modern Pakistan) are believed to be the cradle of civilization. Yes the Chinese have a very old civilization but the Chinese civilization developed a bit later according to more neutral sources.

"THIS IS A TERRORIST GENOCIDE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. To bring religion or ethnicity to ignore this HEINOUS act is just bad taste. "

The Chinese have skillfully used the War on Terror event to really crack down on Uyghur freedom movements and label them such as terrorist. The fact is sure some may have committed crimes, but can you name more than one significant terrorist attack the Uyghurs have done against China, go ahead and try. I can give you countless accounts of Chinese persecution against the Uyghurs, including Nuclear testing, "Hannification", restricting religious rights and activities, police brutality, and more...

Quit your yapping about "TERRORIST GENOCIDE", you don't call what Mao Zedong did to the Chinese peasantry a genocide? Under his rule 15 million Chinese die. I highly doubt the Uyghurs have amounted to such terror lately...

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

That is true according to Chinese state history...Let me inform you that Central Asia is the Turkic homeland Central Asia has always belongs to the Turks and East Turkistan is an integral part of Central Asia. The Turks have been there for thousands of years, they cultivated the land they raised the towns and gardens and civilization there. Your take on history is very uninformed and sketchy and how you assemble your historical events is bad as well.



Besides your offensive remark calling Islam an "invention", let me inform you that Islam began when the first man Adam decided to obey Allah. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was the Final Prophet which completed the message of Allah that is known as Islam today (Islam simply means submission to Allah). Submission to Allah did not begin when The Prophet arrived, it began when Adam first obeyed God.




Excuse me but wise up, the silk road is not an exclusive Chinese enterprise, the Silk road consisted of Arabs, Chinese, Turks, Persians, Indian Muslims (today Pakistanis) and more. It was a joint effort by the worlds civilizations. Also the Chinese are not the world's oldest civilization, historian strongly believe the Persians and Indus Valley Civilization (Modern Pakistan) are believed to be the cradle of civilization. Yes the Chinese have a very old civilization but the Chinese civilization developed a bit later according to more neutral sources.




The Chinese have skillfully used the War on Terror event to really crack down on Uyghur freedom movements and label them such as terrorist. The fact is sure some may have committed crimes, but can you name more than one significant terrorist attack the Uyghurs have done against China, go ahead and try. I can give you countless accounts of Chinese persecution against the Uyghurs, including Nuclear testing, "Hannification", restricting religious rights and activities, police brutality, and more...

Quit your yapping about "TERRORIST GENOCIDE", you don't call what Mao Zedong did to the Chinese peasantry a genocide? Under his rule 15 million Chinese die. I highly doubt the Uyghurs have amounted to such terror lately...

Wrong again. Indus valley is a modern civilisation by comparison. Also "Turkish" refers to their origin TURKEY in EUROPE. Now, how can they be the original inhabitants when they only ARRIVED a thousand years or so ago???

Keep to the humanitarian issue. Did you bother to look at the photos of the carnage and victims? Does that not bother you? Your Taliban issue is not as gruesome (yet) but you still don't understand the problem with evil deeds?

 

[A1Kaid]

I would like to reaffirm the Chinese are a special civilization and they are our strategic partners, but unlike some Pakistanis I refuse to put my head in the sand and ignore the East Turkistan issue.

The Chinese are our time tested friends, and both of our civilizations must discuss this issue. We are both a civilized people and we must discuss and negotiate peacefully, and we must resolve this regional issue. The Turks, Pakistanis, and Chinese must together solve this issue, because the current path is counter-productive to the peace and harmony all of our civilizations wish to pursue.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

I would like to reaffirm the Chinese are a special civilization and they are our strategic partners, but unlike some Pakistanis I refuse to put my head in the sand and ignore the East Turkistan issue.

The Chinese are our time tested friends, and both of our civilizations must discuss this issue. We are both a civilized people and we must discuss and negotiate peacefully, and we must resolve this regional issue. The Turks, Pakistanis, and Chinese must together solve this issue, because the current path is counter-productive to the peace and harmony all of our civilizations wish to pursue.

You already have your head in the sand since you have never been to China to see for yourself. The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India.

Now if most Pakistani tribesman and Indian tribesman and Arab tribesman and Turkish/European tribesman can't tell most Uighurs from Mongol from Han from Tibetan ethnicities ---- what does that tell you? Just like most people can't distinguish Pak from Hindu, shows you how racially similar they are.

This is an evil PRE-MEDITATED terrorist attack (which by nature is NOT peaceful protest). LOOK FOR YOURSELF!

 

[cloyce]

@ Speeder

I really don't care about historical claim. Territorial ownership is more or less like market share of nowadays. Weak countries loose territories while strong countries gain them. Countries' boundaries have changed so many times in history, it's hard to say which territory belongs to who.

The most important thing is the people who live in their own land, if you can bring wealth and social stability to the people, you can legittimate your authority.
Now, in the XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now. The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people.
I think sooner or later, the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits. Chinese law does not discriminate any minority, it gives equal economic opportunities to everyone.

 

[xebex]

china have no any anti-muslim policy! and give more right to the muslim than the hang chinese! when i a see so many countryman were attacked and killed by musilim, i was so so so so angry, i cant help to stop my tears. why ! 140 hang chinese were dead, more than 800was badly wood! why , !!

whatttt?...sounds like religious discrimination right there.

 

[A1Kaid]

You already have your head in the sand since you have never been to China to see for yourself. The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India.

Now if most Pakistani tribesman and Indian tribesman and Arab tribesman and Turkish/European tribesman can't tell most Uighurs from Mongol from Han from Tibetan ethnicities ---- what does that tell you? Just like most people can't distinguish Pak from Hindu, shows you how racially similar they are.

This is an evil PRE-MEDITATED terrorist attack (which by nature is NOT peaceful protest). LOOK FOR YOURSELF!

"The Uighurs look more Chinese than Turkish/European, more than Afghan/white, more than Pak/Indian. In fact they would be classified as MONGOLOID by most citizens in Pakistan and India."

You don't know a thing about Turkic history, the Turks in Anatolia derive from Central Asia. The Turkic nation does not have to look exactly like the Turks in Anatolia. The Uyghurs look exactly like Central Asian Turks. Look at Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan all Muslim-Turkic states and the Uyghurs look just like their Turkic brethren. Are you seriously going to suggest that because Uyghurs don't look like Anatolian Turks that they are more Chinese than Turks...Very very foolish and very unscientific.

Their blood line is Turkic, their culture is Turkic, their language is Turkic, their names are Turkic, their religion is Islam, they are in their Central Asian homeland of Turan.


This will most likely be my last reply to you on this topic as I see your knowledge on history is very uninformed and sketchy and the way you assemble your historical events is very bad.

V

 

[cloyce]

@ A1Kaid

You seems to be a very frank and rational person.

I really apprecciate you.

 

[shravan]

Now, in the XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now. The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people.
I think sooner or later, the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits. Chinese law does not discriminate any minority, it gives equal economic opportunities to everyone.

??????

I am not able to understand the above sentence.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

@ Speeder

I really don't care about historical claim. Territorial ownership is more or less like market share of nowadays. Weak countries loose territories while strong countries gain them. Countries' boundaries have changed so many times in history, it's hard to say which territory belongs to who.

The most important thing is the people who live in their own land, if you can bring wealth and social stability to the people, you can legittimate your authority.
Now, in the XinJiang region, han-chinese enterprises are bringing modernity to the people right now. The problem is the distribution of the benefits that modernity have brought among the people.
I think sooner or later, the uighurs will adapt themself if they want to share the benefits. Chinese law does not discriminate any minority, it gives equal economic opportunities everyone (maybe politicaly is a bit different..).

Actually the law favours minorities. That's why many Chinese claim minority status to get educational, family-planning, and financial assistance. Secondly, there is a reason why it is called 56-ethnic groups and not 56-racial groups, because the genetic difference is minute and thus the grouping is made on language/religion/customs/etc. There's ethnic and racial groups in ALL nations of the world today. You can't find a single country that consists of a single racial group, much less a ethnic group.

Get with it. This is a multi-ethnic, multi-racial world. Pakistan has 5 different ethnic groups, some look like they belong in Delhi, others like Dalits, others like Iranian, others like Afghan, others like a mixed-Euro-blood. If each of these ethnic groups seek to expand and seek "independence".... actually this is happening. Iran and Pak and India and even Afghan has similar seccessionist movements.

USA has similar movements with Lakota nation, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos and Mexicanos who wan't seccession. Europe is even worse off. Now imagine the 10-15% of the ethnic minorities claim part of Europe as their own nation?

So the US by harboring and supporting the maddam who is inciting and co-orchestrating these terrorist attacks, they hold partial blame. Do you know the racial disparity is more severe in US and Europe than in China? That is the nasty nature of karma, by fanning hatred around the world (recently in Iran and now China) --- how long do you think similar uprisings will occur in US, Europe, Australia?