Zilzaal - Pak Qatar Joint Ex

[Cookie Monster]

We should also bring an Erieye as well as SAM battery simulators to generate the full scope of threats either nation can face. I suspect the reason we see the Mirage 2000 on the badge and not the Rafale, is France probably had a talk with the Qataris after some Indian whining, and so as not to undermine their sales of the Rafale to India, France probably put it into their end user agreement for continuation of spares. Although the Qataris could have anticipated this and made sure their wasn't any such limitation in the end user agreement. Only time will tell, and only when we see the JF-17 flying with Qatari Rafales, we will know for sure.

I'm not sure if France has the kind of power over Qatar to dictate how Qatar can or cannot use its Rafale. Additionally Qatar's original Rafale deal with France was finalized sometime in 2015 I think...this is 2 years before India signed a deal for Rafale. So I doubt France could make changes to a deal signed in the past to make a future customer happy. It also seems a bit much to forbid a country from using its purchased fighter jets in DACT training exercises with other countries...any country paying billions for fighter jets would walk away than be beholden to such excessive control. Usually DACT training is essential to figure out weaknesses and strengths of an aircraft, to develop tactics, and to hone their pilots' skills by pitting them against a challenging "foe".

 

[Raider 21]

An article listed all the aircraft in mentioned to be part of the QAF....didn't go into too much details....then again what about Typhoons and Rafales.

No F-15s and no Typhoons yet for Qatar. Only some Rafales have reached. Their initial cadre of instructor pilots on the Rafales trained in the same courses with IAF pilots.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Are Indians getting Rafale with different engine or airframe?
In exercises you learn about the turn rate climb rate, jamming capability, radar painting distance. Radar detection altitude etc. India Rafale are some what similar to Qatari so there is a lot we can learn from them.

If the exercises are focused on Mirage 2000 that means paf in these exercises will act as defender and Qatar as aggressor. Cause Indian Mirage package is the one that will carry spice bombs.

All signals can be recorded!!!! And, then.....

Why do you think the IAF missed 02-26 objectives?????

 

[khanasifm]

I think it means Earthquake.
Qatar AF fields Rafales, Typhoons, F-15s....why is it just participating with Mirage-2000 and Alpha jets.
OTOH, we are sending the JF-17s.....must be a particular purpose exercise.

May be true jf candidate to replace mirage 2000 and alpha jets do bring eval in exercise ??

 

[FuturePAF]

May be true jf candidate to replace mirage 2000 and alpha jets do bring eval in exercise ??

If they do indeed purchase the JF-17, it would be smart choice for the Qataris; Geo-politically and vis a vi Interoperability with the PAF. The access to a wide array of non-western weapons systems alone gives them options.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

If they do indeed purchase the JF-17, it would be smart choice for the Qataris; Geo-politically and vis a vi Interoperability with the PAF. The access to a wide array of non-western weapons systems alone gives them options.

Since Katar is taking an active part in all Turkish "adventures", a dedicated fleet of JF-17s, coupled with Turkish AWACs and EW support aircrafts, will give them an added advantage!!! It'll be even better if some of the JFs have the Turkish avionics, AESA radars, A2A missiles etc....

 

[FuturePAF]

Since Katar is taking an active part in all Turkish "adventures", a dedicated fleet of JF-17s, coupled with Turkish AWACs and EW support aircrafts, will give them an added advantage!!! It'll be even better if some of the JFs have the Turkish avionics, AESA radars, A2A missiles etc....

Allowing Inter-operability with Turkish Forces already in Qatar as well. It would be a great stepping stone to integrating the technology being developed for the T-FX for Qatari JF-17, leading to eventually the Qatari Air Force being the first Export Customer for the T-FX. Pakistan wins as well; learning from the experience, and applying the lessons learned into Project AZM.

Considering they will be operating the top three Western 4th generation fighters, the Qataris are best placed to helping the JF-17 evolve to its full potential.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Allowing Inter-operability with Turkish Forces already in Qatar as well. It would be a great stepping stone to integrating the technology being developed for the T-FX for Qatari JF-17, leading to eventually the Qatari Air Force being the first Export Customer for the T-FX. Pakistan wins as well; learning from the experience as well.

Considering they will be operating the top three Western 4th generation fighters, the Qataris are best placed to helping the JF-17 evolve to its full potential.

A very good point. Sensor fusion from all sorts of areas in the a/c, including bodies of composite materials, is a highly challenging task. Better to start with a simpler a/c with less daunting specs. Engineering design, manufacturing, integration, reliability, quality assurance etc. are all about linear "baby steps" taken one at a time. Quantum leaps are "Divine" by definition...

 

[Rafi]

ok ok whatever, if you still lives in your fairy tails

Brom Brom mŕrrrrrrrr

 

[kursed]

All signals can be recorded!!!! And, then.....

Why do you think the IAF missed 02-26 objectives?????

I actually am interested in knowing why Pak has so far not publicly shown interest in wide-range of EW equipment that Turkey and even China are able to provide.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I actually am interested in knowing why Pak has so far not publicly shown interest in wide-range of EW equipment that Turkey and even China are able to provide.

EW, by definition, is clandestine...

My beard doesn't know what's inside my head - Fatih Sultan Mehmet Han, Conqueror of Constantinople

Your secrets are your prisoners, when you let them out you become their prisoners - Hazret-i Ali (RA)

 

[NA71]

I think it means Earthquake.
Qatar AF fields Rafales, Typhoons, F-15s....why is it just participating with Mirage-2000 and Alpha jets.
OTOH, we are sending the JF-17s.....must be a particular purpose exercise.

Taken from Quaric Suah 99.

 

[Windjammer]

May be true jf candidate to replace mirage 2000 and alpha jets do bring eval in exercise ??

I understand that apart from JF-17s the PAF will also participate with it's Mirages.

 

[araz]

what sign enough, that we knows every things about RAFALES like its drawbacks/weaknesses, don't be stupid sir

I would advise you to be careful in your choice of words. It is a very discourteous way in which you have adressed a senior contributor. Just because you have added Sir does not make it right. I have resisted rating your post but next time I wont hold back. So please be careful and abide by the code of the forum.
Regards
A

 

[truthseeker2010]

You are right. It takes time, even years to learn the full employment potential of any aircraft. What the PAF knows and does not know about the Rafale is all speculation.

I hope PAF and QEAF maintain and enhance their cooperation and relations. PAF should also build better relations with Egyptian Air Force and conduct bi-lateral and multi-lateral exercises.

The euphoria around the Rafale in the Indian circles is reminscient of the time when they purchased Mirage 2000 and Mig-29s to cater to PAF's F-16 threat. The Mig-29s and the M2000 were better than the blk-15 F-16s that PAF had as per the Indians then and now the Rafale is a generation better than anything possessed by the PAF (as are the Su-30 MKIs per the Indian side).

So it's natural for them to boast of their own capabilities. I think for PAF, along with knowing the capability of Rafale, they have to have their tactics devised to respond to the IAF through all assets at our disposal and by leveraging the full potential of our force multipliers.
Points or cogs in a system make a difference, but it is the whole system's efficiency that makes the real difference. This comes through practice, hard work and realistic training more than shiny new platforms.

People often do comparison on 1 to 1 basis, which is usually not very helpful when comparing opponents, that might hold true in other things but when it comes to air force this is not the case, in peace time, exercises have limitations so if something holds true in exercise does not mean it will be in combat, second in combat its always teamwork, so your coordination and synergy will make all the difference b/w life and death.

As for rafale, i can tell you one thing rafale that french use is a benchmark variant, whereas all the export one are scaled down version. For the IAF i wont be surprised if they employ them using wolfpacks otherwise rafale alone will be just another MKI.