Z-20 Utility Helicopter News & Discussions

[kungfugymnast]

No offense deino but this is called the day light robbery of Black Hawk Design.

It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.

 

[vi-va]

It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.

You think Airbus 320 reverse engineered Boeing 737 as well?

You can't judge a book by the cover, it looks alike, true. The engine, the Rotor, the blade and information and control system are completely newly designed.

Actually all the important sub system are different from US black hawk.

Don't be so simple so superficial.

 

[kungfugymnast]

You think Airbus 320 reverse engineered Boeing 737 as well?

You can't judge a book by the cover, it looks alike, true. The engine, the Rotor, the blade and information and control system are completely newly designed.

Actually all the important sub system are different from US black hawk.

Don't be so simple so superficial.

NATO countries often conducted research on US aircrafts they bought. French airbus definitely did reverse engineering on Boeing & MD in the past and present. They'll do the same on F-35 they are getting to replicate its stealth, avionics, powerful engines then come up with new Eurofighter project.

Verdict is, they should come up with other design rather than blackhawk lookalike.

 

[vi-va]

NATO countries often conducted research on US aircrafts they bought. French airbus definitely did reverse engineering on Boeing & MD in the past and present. They'll do the same on F-35 they are getting to replicate its stealth, avionics, powerful engines then come up with new Eurofighter project.

Verdict is, they should come up with other design rather than blackhawk lookalike.

If you work on high tech, especially on engineering field. You will understand, high tech is not like making socks, toys. You can easily reverse engineering low end stuff, high tech is not.

There are 200 countries can buy Airbus, Boeing airplane, there are tens of countries can buy F-16, Black hawk, there are several countries can buy F-15. There are dozens of countries now buying F-35.

But there are only handful of countries can made counterpart. Russia can make Su-35, Su-57, IL-76, IL-476. France can make Rafale. China can make J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20, Long March rocket. What about all other countries?

Even India with 1.3 billion people, and a huge pool of talents serving the world can not make a decent domestic fighter jet, not a decent domestic main battle tank.

If copy and reverse engineering that simple, the reality tell the opposite.

High tech has no short cut, you have to build domestic industry, invest billions on R&D, decades of input and push very hard.

There is no such thing you can buy and make a copy on high tech, otherwise it's no high tech in the first place.

 

[kungfugymnast]

If you work on high tech, especially on engineering field. You will understand, high tech is not like making socks, toys. You can easily reverse engineering low end stuff, high tech is not.

There are 200 countries can buy Airbus, Boeing airplane, there are tens of countries can buy F-16, Black hawk, there are several countries can buy F-15. There are dozens of countries now buying F-35.

But there are only handful of countries can made counterpart. Russia can make Su-35, Su-57, IL-76, IL-476. France can make Rafale. China can make J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20, Long March rocket. What about all other countries?

Even India with 1.3 billion people, and a huge pool of talents serving the world can not make a decent domestic fighter jet, not a decent domestic main battle tank.

If copy and reverse engineering that simple, the reality tell the opposite.

High tech has no short cut, you have to build domestic industry, invest billions on R&D, decades of input and push very hard.

There is no such thing you can buy and make a copy on high tech, otherwise it's no high tech in the first place.

Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol

 

[vi-va]

Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol

We kind of copy the shape, not because we can't do something different, but we have exactly the same needs as Americans.

We need to put the Z-20 into Y-9/Y-9 which is almost the same size of C-130. Not much choice.

Btw, the aerodynamic configuration of fighter jet is important, but not that important to helicopter.

Please ignore the shape, really doesn't matter that mach as you think.

 

[waja2000]

Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol

China military always Reverence/fans of US military asset design & capablity, Blackhawk is one of them, they always tot it is best military helicopter and since Blackhawk perform very well in PLAAF service in high altitude Tibet, and with ownership experiance and technical data from they have (speed up R&D process), not surprise Z20 nearly same with Blackhawk.
Personally i more prefer NH90 style and more suitable for PLAN 　

 

[Deino]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2876154672504503

 

[sheik]

It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.

China did consider and compare both designs of UH-60 and NH90. NH90 is actually a more general style to do almost everything. The advantage includes a rear cargo ramp for loading vehicles. It's a natural choice for European countries which do not have many specialized lines of choppers. And only a couple of countries have heavier models like CH-47 and CH-53. So NH90 must be also used to carry vehicles. However, China is different from those European countries. China is more like the US. The Army uses Z-20 mainly for transport of troops and air assault. For vehicle transport there are Z-8's.

The reasons why PLA chose the UH-60 style over the NH90 style might include:
1. Lower profile with smaller side area for better chance to survive from the attacks in the battle field
2. Lower profile and big side doors for easier access and easier unloading of the troops
3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters. NH90 have to carried by airlifters like A400M.
4. Better protection to the troops in a crash (thanks to the wheel placement, lower tail beam, and the rear gas tank). NH90 has to put the gas tank under floor due to the tail door
5. Cheaper than the NH90 style due to the lower profile and smaller size of the body. Different from the totally production of a few hundreds with NH90, China needs thousands of this class of helicopters for both military and civil usage. So it's a big difference.
6. Operation experience in PLA

Even though UH-60 seemed to be an older design than NH90, China can put latest avionics and material inside to make it just as advanced as NH90 and UH-60M.

 

[vi-va]

3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters.

I think this is one of the most important reason. Carried by Y-8/Y-9, make it best mobility all across China. 全域机动

 

[kungfugymnast]

View attachment 631528 View attachment 631529

China did consider and compare both designs of UH-60 and NH90. NH90 is actually a more general style to do almost everything. The advantage includes a rear cargo ramp for loading vehicles. It's a natural choice for European countries which do not have many specialized lines of choppers. And only a couple of countries have heavier models like CH-47 and CH-53. So NH90 must be also used to carry vehicles. However, China is different from those European countries. China is more like the US. The Army uses Z-20 mainly for transport of troops and air assault. For vehicle transport there are Z-8's.

The reasons why PLA chose the UH-60 style over the NH90 style might include:
1. Lower profile with smaller side area for better chance to survive from the attacks in the battle field
2. Lower profile and big side doors for easier access and easier unloading of the troops
3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters. NH90 have to carried by airlifters like A400M.
4. Better protection to the troops in a crash (thanks to the wheel placement, lower tail beam, and the rear gas tank). NH90 has to put the gas tank under floor due to the tail door
5. Cheaper than the NH90 style due to the lower profile and smaller size of the body. Different from the totally production of a few hundreds with NH90, China needs thousands of this class of helicopters for both military and civil usage. So it's a big difference.
6. Operation experience in PLA

Even though UH-60 seemed to be an older design than NH90, China can put latest avionics and material inside to make it just as advanced as NH90 and UH-60M.

Thanks for the detailed info. China could have copied the stealth blackhawk artist impression design by right, at least much better looking and nobody would say copy since the stealth blackhawk was never revealed to public.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @万全 from Weibo

 

[LKJ86]

Via @万全 from Weibo

 

[bahadur999]

China-made machine guns boost weaponry capabilities for combat vehicles, boats, and helicopters
Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2020/5/19 2:46:37

Photo: A three-barrel 12.7mm caliber rotary machine gun developed by China is mounted on a light armored vehicle. Photo: China Central Television


China's newest Gatling-style machine guns are expected to provide light combat vehicles, motor boats, and helicopters with heavier firepower.

One model features six 7.62mm caliber barrels and can shoot 6,000 rounds per minute, China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.

The independently developed weapon, comparable to the US-made Minigun, has been used on various combat vehicles including light armor tanks and quad bikes, according to CCTV.

China recently finished developing a more powerful version. With three -12.7mm caliber barrels, the upgrade has the highest round-per-minute at 2,000, and a bigger cartridge that can hold 400 bullets, making it more powerful than regular large-caliber machine guns, CCTV said.

Last year, China revealed the Z-20, the country's most advanced utility helicopter. The chopper is expected to become the main combat aircraft of the Chinese Army's aerial assault brigades, Shanghai-based news website eastday.com reported on Sunday.

The Chinese-made Gatling guns could be installed on the Z-20, which would allow it to provide firepower support for assault ground troops, the report also said.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @RazorSquad锋 from Weibo