Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

[rockstar08]

i think turkey will not provide attack helos on soft loans or may be they are more costly than other attack helos

than we have no other option but to go for Chinese helo

 

[nomi007]

than we have no other option but to go for Chinese helo

i think army also want chinese or ah-1z nor t-129

 

[rockstar08]

i think army also want chinese or ah-1z nor t-129

but its all silence from long time ... no progress ?!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

none of these expensive toys we need something rugged and low cost Mi 24 Hind. its a bane for the insurgents far more robust and sturdy than the expensive T-129 toy and the unproven Z-10

 

[Kompromat]

none of these expensive toys we need something rugged and low cost Mi 24 Hind. its a bane for the insurgents far more robust and sturdy than the expensive T-129 toy and the unproven Z-10

With due respect sir, Mi-24's time has gone past. Do you remember that over 360 helos were knocked down by Mujahideen many of which were hinds.

Modern battlespace is about network centricity, ability to fight in teams and other asstets, ability to fight at night and surviveability not only in conventional attack realm but also from electronic warfare.

Indians are buying Apaches with Hellfire missiles. We shouldn't be buying Hinds but keeping up with technological parameters and buy similar capabilities ie offered by T-129s or AH-1Z Viper.

 

[RAMPAGE]

none of these expensive toys we need something rugged and low cost Mi 24 Hind. its a bane for the insurgents far more robust and sturdy than the expensive T-129 toy and the unproven Z-10

Perhaps Mi-28N ???

It's comparatively cost effective.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

With due respect sir, Mi-24's time has gone past. Do you remember that over 360 helos were knocked down by Mujahideen many of which were hinds..

my focus is only COIN
I knew that Mujahideen magic will be thrown on my face without the magic ingredient commonly known as Stinger. the Afghans called them Satanic chariot for a reason.

unless TTP is externally supplied with those shoulder fired missiles nothing can bring them down. these beasts are immune to pretty much what TTP can throw at it. at best they have used 14.5 mm (shilka) they got from Afghanistan (northern alliance or Indians). apart from that whatever has brought down Cobras (much lighter craft) will bring down T-129 and Z-10 as well.

Mi24 is in because of its simple and brutal design .. painfully ugly, horrifically armed to teeth, surprisingly fast with the added bonus of troops transportation.

as for bygone era goes, our Bell Heuy armed with an MG-1A3 are of a relic of the past.. you cant get more more past date than that. but they are doing their job and thats all we got to cover for over used cobras. Mi 24's single sortie is equal to many cobras and can even cover for PAF jets except for laser guided precion strikes.

incidentally, my views are not just hot air... this view is shared by a close family friend who has been reinstated in the army, he is part of special task force and is flying cobra gunships.. you can bet whenever there are news of Cobra strikes on taliban... he has scored few kills.


before the Taliban get some game changers (MANPADs) its time we dont do have time or money to fantasize over something we cant get. time is running out.

that said, chances of getting Mi 24 are also not that bright either. Russia is not giving these up anyway.

Perhaps Mi-28N ???

It's comparatively cost effective.

where did you get this picture from? how is it possible? why did you do that to me?

why Russians even allowed us to take picture with that?

that pure masturbation and overkill

too good to be true.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

my focus is only COIN
I knew that Mujahideen magic will be thrown on my face without the magic ingredient commonly known as Stinger. the Afghans called them Satanic chariot for a reason.

unless TTP is externally supplied with those shoulder fired missiles nothing can bring them down. these beasts are immune to pretty much what TTP can throw at it. at best they have used 14.5 mm (shilka) they got from Afghanistan (northern alliance or Indians). apart from that whatever has brought down Cobras (much lighter craft) will bring down T-129 and Z-10 as well.

Mi24 is in because of its simple and brutal design .. painfully ugly, horrifically armed to teeth, surprisingly fast with the added bonus of troops transportation.

as for bygone era goes, our Bell Heuy armed with an MG-1A3 are of a relic of the past.. you cant get more more past date than that. but they are doing their job and thats all we got to cover for over used cobras. Mi 24's single sortie is equal to many cobras and can even cover for PAF jets except for laser guided precion strikes.

incidentally, my views are not just hot air... this view is shared by a close family friend who has been reinstated in the army, he is part of special task force and is flying cobra gunships.. you can bet whenever there are news of Cobra strikes on taliban... he has scored few kills.


before the Taliban get some game changers (MANPADs) its time we dont do have time or money to fantasize over something we cant get. time is running out.

that said, chances of getting Mi 24 are also not that bright either. Russia is not giving these up anyway.

You are pretty much spot-on wrt to the Mi-24/Mi-35 Hinds. They struck terror into the Mujaheddin and Talibaboons till the Stinger entered the picture.
Built like Bulls, the Hinds can take a great deal of punishment as well as even launch/land a squad of troops where its needed most.
But the picture then gets muddied by two facts:
1. The Hinds are not available to you
2. MANPADs are more easily available than in the past, even if they are not Stingers.

So to counter Pt. No.1; consider armored Mi-17s which may be given to you.
But in light of present circumstances; a Turbo-Prop Armed trainer will work better; since it has better survivability/vulnerability than a Helo and much cheaper to operate than Jets in the COIN role; with more precision and efficiency.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You are pretty much spot-on wrt to the Mi-24/Mi-35 Hinds. They struck terror into the Mujaheddin and Talibaboons till the Stinger entered the picture.
Built like Bulls, the Hinds can take a great deal of punishment as well as even launch/land a squad of troops where its needed most.
But the picture then gets muddied by two facts:
1. The Hinds are not available to you
2. MANPADs are more easily available than in the past, even if they are not Stingers.

So to counter Pt. No.1; consider armored Mi-17s which may be given to you.
But in light of present circumstances; a Turbo-Prop Armed trainer will work better; since it has better survivability/vulnerability than a Helo and much cheaper to operate than Jets in the COIN role; with more precision and efficiency.

very true

either try to source them from former Soviet countries or go for near alternatives. Hind is purpose built to kill. Mils converted to gunship role are a good alternative. my point is for the purpose of COIN n need to use excessively priced and eye candy western helicopters that are mean to fight a regular army.
turbo prop plane is my favourite but we dont have time to design one

 

[Imran Khan]

where did you get this picture from? how is it possible? why did you do that to me?

why Russians even allowed us to take picture with that?

that pure masturbation and overkill

too good to be true.

14 may2007 JANAB MAKS RUSSIA AIR SHOW SE HAI

 

[Capt.Popeye]

very true

either try to source them from former Soviet countries or go for near alternatives. Hind is purpose built to kill. Mils converted to gunship role are a good alternative. my point is for the purpose of COIN n need to use excessively priced and eye candy western helicopters that are mean to fight a regular army.
turbo prop plane is my favourite but we dont have time to design one

If Mi-17s are in serious consideration, then you can have access to them; just as you have had in the past.

Now, wrt Turbo-Prop driven TPTs, no need to design and build them. Buy off the shelf.
The Super Tucanos or the modded Air-Tractor Crop-Duster are among the aircraft that can be looked at. The numbers in consideration will not be too large to justify new D&D work; about 2 Sqdns worth (40 a/c). Plus they will not face too much political resistance, both in the neighborhood and outside.

In conclusion: the TPTs are better suited to the job than Helos (imo) as I have outlined above. But the best mix is TPTs and armored Helos like the Mi-17s.

 

[cnleio]

WZ-10.gif

 

[DrWatson775]

Pakistan will most likely go for Z10 instead of turkish option mainly because all components/spare parts etc are made in China and do not need license for production and export.
Moreover Z10 can be modified and avionics etc integrated acc. to Pakistan's needs. Chinese are more soft in this regards (e.g consider F7s and JF17s).

 

[turkbordobereli]

WZ-10.gif

0:51

 

[cnleio]

0:51

Better GIF